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Is his wife fine as or something?
I would tell this I wished she was dead and gone. Sounds like she's bent on tearing the closeness of your family apart. It probably won't work but I'd do everything I could to let her know you and your family would be much happier if she accidently fell off a cliff into a wood chipper which then accidently wraps a chain around her leg and magically drags her to the depths of the Pacific.
Is his wife fine as or something?
For the record, I agree with B2B. After 17 years, any sort of major and meaningful, permanent change or solution is going to be after a nasty, emotionally violent confrontation, and one that is coming whether Dave and Janet know it or not. You can only twist someone or something for so long before it breaks. But that's another fight for down the line. I'm assuming that time is a factor on this, so I think finesse approach is what you need if you're just trying to get Dave on the plane.
Mrs. Chopper keeps the books and pays the bills on our mutual account, but we both have a separate checking account as well. She loves shopping for clothes, I like the occassional big purchase. I've learned that I'd rather not know the details of her spending so I just don't look.
She and I have been together 17 years too, but we have learned that we each like to do a lot of things that the other one doesn't. I probably take two or three small trips a year either by myself or with friends that don't include her. I love basketball and sports and she doesn't. We respect the other person's need for individuality, and also the need to just "be" once in awhile. When she and I are together we are great, and when we're not we're still great. I encourage her to do things with her friends, and so Janet is like an alien species to me. I just have never gotten her.
If she ends up reluctantely letting him go she'll make him regret it for the rest of his life. If he steps foot on that plane having massaged the situation to get there he might as well never come home.
I'm also the oldest of four brothers (now I know why EHJ is cool) and I would not recommend calling her. Especially since you said she has a propensity to talk over you. There is like a 99% chance that all that will happen is she and you end up pissed off at the end of the conversation. Then she will tighten the noose on your brother and he'll halfway blame you. And if you ever try to plan anything again, it will be damn near impossible.
I can guarantee you that her mindset right now is that she thinks you are turning her husband against her. She blames all of this on you and by confronting her with a call, you will feel the wrath. Plus, you don't know which angles your brother has already tried to use so you might accidentally contradict him and it'd be over.
What I'd do is write up a long email explaining everything. Make all the points that you made in this thread. Make it overly sappy and play up any sad things that have happened to you or your brothers over the years. Then at the end of it, you should give her your office phone number and tell her to call her with an answer on whether or not he can go. Tell her it's totally up to her and that if she wants to tell her husband no, that you and everyone else will understand. As Spurminator said, the only way to deal with someone who is both dumb and controlling is to give them power and the illusion that they will make the ultimate decision.
Be sure to have her call you with the answer because it's harder to say no on the phone than via email. Oh and be sure to read the email to your brother beforehand to make sure it aligns with all the points he has been making.
If she calls you and says no, you'll have one more opportunity to reinforce everything but your chances will be slim. If you don't care about alienating her, that's when you can try to get pissed to see if that works. If your brother never gets pissed with her, then it may shock her back into reality.
This is a difficult situation and you will be climbing uphill but that's how I would handle it.
He told me on the phone that if he goes he's going to hear about it for the next 20 years.
Damn. I think you really are a life coach.
Holy ! All I can add to this is that if he is willing to put up with that much crap she must be GREAT in the sack.
The email idea makes sense. I think that would be a better Step 2 if Dave continues to fail going at this himself. I don't see a one-on-one conversation with her not escalating and getting out of hand, and this way I make valid points that she can read over again as much as she wants.I'm also the oldest of four brothers (now I know why EHJ is cool
I can guarantee you that her mindset right now is that she thinks you are turning her husband against her. She blames all of this on you and by confronting her with a call, you will feel the wrath. Plus, you don't know which angles your brother has already tried to use so you might accidentally contradict him and it'd be over.
What I'd do is write up a long email explaining everything. Make all the points that you made in this thread. Make it overly sappy and play up any sad things that have happened to you or your brothers over the years. Then at the end of it, you should give her your office phone number and tell her to call her with an answer on whether or not he can go. Tell her it's totally up to her and that if she wants to tell her husband no, that you and everyone else will understand. As Spurminator said, the only way to deal with someone who is both dumb and controlling is to give them power and the illusion that they will make the ultimate decision.
Be sure to have her call you with the answer because it's harder to say no on the phone than via email. Oh and be sure to read the email to your brother beforehand to make sure it aligns with all the points he has been making.
If she calls you and says no, you'll have one more opportunity to reinforce everything but your chances will be slim. If you don't care about alienating her, that's when you can try to get pissed to see if that works. If your brother never gets pissed with her, then it may shock her back into reality.
This is a difficult situation and you will be climbing uphill but that's how I would handle it.
My brother IS a big bear. Probably too gentle and easy going to be married to such a control freak. I'd like to stay completely out of it, but it's not my nature. As you know, Timvp, you always have your brothers' backs, even when they're being irrational....maybe especially when.
Chopper, listen to timvp.
You have a very difficult line to walk. However, the results you desire can be achieved.
If there's one thing I know about Psychologists, is most, such as myself, are head cases.
And timvp, I don't think she's as dumb as it appears. It wouldn't surprise me if Dave's wife uses ignorance as a vail to mask her intentions.
Maybe, maybe not.
Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.
It sounds as though God is the only individual that could change this woman's heart.
At one time every guy who didn't actually know her thought she was amazingly hot. Over the years, however, she has been nipped, tucked, enhanced, oven-baked, etc. so much that I think she's starting to look a little freakish. She wants to still be 20, and has spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to roll back the clock. She's a gym addict, and not in a healthy way. Aging is not an option and it's beginning to get scary...IMO. I don't think she's ever been happy with herself, and that certainly becomes apparent in how she handles herself physically. But I think my brother still sees the 23 year old hottie he met so long ago.
I've meet, slept with, married, divorced every kind of women you can think of. I know exactly how it works.
Not to mention how many overbearing women I deal with at my job. Personality manipulation and comprehension is what I get paid to do for a living.
You go sappy and you'll regret it. She eat you and him alive....if not right away a slow painful chewing until he mans up and leaves her. That might never happen considering some dudes find comfort in having no control at all.
I've used the divorce and/or kill line with my SIL. They sound like long lost twins.
It's frustrating to watch your brother being put the through the ringer on a daily basis.
EHJ holds a 1% chance of winning a "fire vs. fire" technique if he calls her straight up. She'll be in her comfort zone because she'll know it's coming. She is already feeling like she is being attacked and him calling her would make her feel even more attacked. On her home turf, she is going to win that battle ... even if it means hanging up the phone and then cutting the husband's nvts off afterwards.
Even if the sappy email route doesn't work initially, at least when she calls her guard will be down and then EHJ can drop the hammer. If she calls thinking she'll be able to put a nice little ribbon on the top of her decision and EHJ will understand, she's not going to be ready for the fire. That's when EHJ can strike. That is the only way to hope to catch her with her defenses down.
The only other way is to show up unexpectedly on their doorstep and try to reason with her face to face. I'd do that way before I'd pick up the phone and try to beat her at her own game. EHJ has to get crafty to win this war.
I don't think anything will work short of his brother telling her to get ed and simply going.
Since when does being rational with an irrational person ever work?
If that's the case, EHJ might as well cancel one of those plane tickets now because no way he's going to turn into a hard ass after 17 years.
EHJ has to use advanced levels of craftiness to get this done. Otherwise he has no hope.
Say no. Talking to the wife for him is about the worst thing you can do for a guy who needs to grow a pair.
Your brother has issues. All you can do is try your best to get the result you want, but don't let it get to you if it doesn't work out. Witches like her feed off of others unhappiness. Don't give her the satisfaction. I too have a younger brother that is wussified and drives us nuts.
The angle to work here is the brother, not the wife, IMO.
The angle, really, is to talk to the brother, but to ultimately let him make his own decision and let him handle it in his own way. Even if that means he misses the trip.
I think everyone who's posted in this thread can agree that the wife is a manipulative and controlling , but it doesn't change the fact that he chose to marry her. Push hard enough, either the wife or the brother, that this turns into a battle? Don't be surprised when he sides with her.
That's a rather long way to say that you agree with me.
I've never been one to walk when I could easily do a cartwheel instead.
Maybe you should talk to his wife?
Dude, I've got 2 brothers and both of them are married. It's been AT LEAST 2 years since all 3 of us have played golf together. I think their wives do the same thing to them that your brother's wife does. I can't stand one of my brother's wife so I would not talk to her in a similar situation. She's a hottie and thinks that should en le her to always get her way.I think you should just explain how much this means to you to your brother. Let him deal with it and let the chips fall where they may.
I could never be married to someone like that. Everyone here knows that I don't shy away from arguing, can you imagine if I married someone that wanted to get on my every last ing nerve every minute of the day?
Oh god, I'd be on ing death row for a brutal stabbing death after I snapped.
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