Black Males In Crisis In America

[2centsworth]

Whoa, and here I thought that Jim Crow laws were out-dated.

You essentially believe that unless it's white it's inferior.

"it never ceases to amaze me.... that the courts are so willing to assume that anything that is perdominatly black must be inferior." Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, I know you don't want to talk to me, but another question:
Don't you sometimes think that "freedom" and "equality" is a state of mind?

Think about something, especially in San Antonio, look around you at the
people who own businesses. How many are "white" and how many are
other races. Bye the way "white" is a terrible term, because there really
isn't a white race. And another side note, I am a Texan, borned, raised
and live here. The point: I ant white I is a Texan. So there! My point
I think you are beating a dead horse, equality and freedom are well and
thriving and racism is also well and thriving, always has been always will be
look around the world young man. Muslims killing Muslims, Christians putting
down other Christians and some people just plain don't like other people.
I am prejudice, some people I just damn well don't like.

I have no problem talking to you.

Schools in minority neighborhoods have been underfunded compared to schools in non minority neighborhoods. You need not look any further than the way the state university underfunded border schools up until very recently.

And even at that point, there has been no atempt to bring the general populous in these areas up to an equitable level. The dominant culture in our country had a big ass head start, and you don't erase that simply by allowing the other people to run in the race. You help the other people catch up.

I'm not advocating holding the more well off part of our society back, I'm adocating added help to bring those who aren't there yet up to speed.

Freedom can, in a poetic sense, be a state of mind. However equality is something that immplies a measurement, and a measurement shows the poor in this country are not equal and do not have the same opportunities.

[MannyIsGod]

We have certain inalienable rights granted by God. IMO, the Civil Rights movement freed the oppressed to excercise their rights. Just so happened in general White People already had those freedoms.

I think it's a very important distinction, because it shifts the burden of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to the individual and not based upon how well everyone else is doing.

I agree that we all have those rights, and the civil rights movement finally acknowledged that.

But what happened before that civil rights act could not be erased right way, and the governemtn should have, and should do, everything in it's power to bring those people whom it's laws harmed up to equitable standards.

We're not talking about people who came to this country for an opportunity to build themselves up, we're talking about a culture that was supressed economicly and socially by the government and it's policies. They were wronged

If am choking someone to the point that it causes damage, my liability is not simpy to stop choking them, but to fix and remedy what harm the choking has caused.

[2centsworth]

We're not talking about people who came to this country for an opportunity to build themselves up, we're talking about a culture that was supressed economicly and socially by the government and it's policies. They were wronged

If am choking someone to the point that it causes damage, my liability is not simpy to stop choking them, but to fix and remedy what harm the choking has caused.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, the above is an encroachment on someone's individual freedoms and not an equality with white people issue.

[MannyIsGod]

You don't think that minorities personal freedoms were encroached on by the government pre civil rights?

BTW, I dig your Bill Maher quote. I have yet to catch an episode of Real Time this season, I'd forgotten it was back on the air.

[2centsworth]

You don't think that minorities personal freedoms were encroached on by the government pre civil rights?

Of course, that's why I think the battle was about freedom and not equality. , I don't even want to be equal I just want my God given rights.

Thanks for the compliment on Bill Maher, I don't like his show but at least he tries to be intellectually honest.

[Useruser666]

So Manny, are you saying the government needs to pay reparations?

[MannyIsGod]

Chris, I want you to go back and read my posts. You about me saying you don't read, but godamn, I addressed that word for nig word.

[Nbadan]

Some animals are equal, some are more equal than others.

So now we're animals?

[Useruser666]

Try reading Animal Farm Dan.

[Useruser666]

Chris, I want you to go back and read my posts. You about me saying you don't read, but godamn, I addressed that word for nig word.

This is what you said that made me ask that question of you....

And even at that point, there has been no atempt to bring the general populous in these areas up to an equitable level. The dominant culture in our country had a big ass head start, and you don't erase that simply by allowing the other people to run in the race. You help the other people catch up.

I'm not advocating holding the more well off part of our society back, I'm adocating added help to bring those who aren't there yet up to speed.

But what happened before that civil rights act could not be erased right way, and the governemtn should have, and should do, everything in it's power to bring those people whom it's laws harmed up to equitable standards.

If am choking someone to the point that it causes damage, my liability is not simpy to stop choking them, but to fix and remedy what harm the choking has caused.

Those three quotes lead me to believe that you were talking about reparations or maybe some special treatment from the government. What do you think should be done?

[Spurminator]

What bothers me about rectifying the sins of our past through some kind of special treatment policy is that I don't think we'll ever know when it should stop. When do we say, "Okay, I think we've made up for the crimes of slavery and inequality from our nation's beginnings"? As much as I dislike the idea of reparations, I think it's probably a better option than some long-term solution that may go on indefinitely. I prefer a one-time lump-sum guilt tax.

[Jekka]

it's not a better option. You spend money untill the infrastructure and education in all poor neighborhoods (not just minority ones, but this addresses the issue across the board) untill they are on an equal footing.

This actually doens't have to be a race issue, but rather a poverty issue. The fact of the matter however, is that the demographics of the people in poverty has a lot to do with the history of race relations in this country.

-Manuel

[Spurminator]

At what point are they on "equal footing" though?

[2centsworth]

it's not a better option. You spend money untill the infrastructure and education in all poor neighborhoods (not just minority ones, but this addresses the issue across the board) untill they are on an equal footing.

This actually doens't have to be a race issue, but rather a poverty issue. The fact of the matter however, is that the demographics of the people in poverty has a lot to do with the history of race relations in this country.

-Manuel

Per capita the US spends more money than any other country, but we still get our asses handed to us in math and science.

The issue is a little more complicated.

[Ginobilly]

Umm.. that's why I quoted the word "heterosexual" because I don't believe you can call yourself hetero when you are a guy having sex with a guy. But they don't perceive themselves as gay or bi.

Here's a true story.

When I lived in Los Angeles, I had a friend who met this other guy at the gym. They became friends. Both guys had live-in girlfriends. The two guys hung out together, went to the gym, watched games, went out to eat, regular guy stuff.

One day the two guys went out to grab a bite to eat, on the way back home the guy asked my friend if he wanted to go back to his place for "a massage". At first, my friend was confused ... he didn't know what this guy could have possibly meant. After all, the guy wasn't gay ... he lived with his girlfriend. My friend didn't really respond to the comment at first, other than to just say "No."

When he got home, he called me and told me the story. I figured he must have been wrong .. after all I had met the guy and his girlfriend several times. So I told my friend to call the guy and ask what he meant; maybe it was some kind of misunderstanding.

When he did, the guy said, "Yeah, sorry if I surprised you. My girlfriend is out of town and I'm just in the mood for some ." My friend was like WTF, I didn't know you were bisexual. The guy told him that he wasn't. But that a lot of the guys at the gym were the same way ... that sometimes women got a little boring and it was better to just be with a man.

This was in a predominantly black area of Los Angeles. My friend turned down the guy's advances, but after checking it out with others in the gym and in the area, found out that ...yes, this was not too unpopular of a mindset. A lot of the guys were involved in the same type of activities while keeping a girlfriend or wife at home.

This was in 1990. Since then these social circles of young, black men who obviously have issues with their sexual iden y has grown and grown. I've read many articles on the net regarding this subject. They either don't admit they are gay because of shame, or are so confused that they don't even consider themselves gay. A lot of females have contracted HIV from these guys in these groups.

I'm not defending NBADan and his claims in the original post of this thread. I'm just saying that this "downlow" behavior among young, black males in major cities is not as outrageously unusual as most people would think.



no.

Yeah, there are some guys that are like that in St.Phillips/east side. When I went there to take some basics a year an half ago I met some guys that were "downlow" guys in my basketball class. You would of never guessed they were Bi when you looked at them. Tall, Muscular, gangsta, slam dunking du rag wearing type. And they were always flirting with the white and hispanic girls in class hoping to get some booty. And one of them told me one time if I wanted to go to his crib one day to "hang out" and smoke some weed and listen to music. Then some guy told me from class told me that that guy was Bisexual and liked to push s in and suck once in while. And then he told me that some of the brothas here in school were closets too but they weren't gay, they just liked the company of men once in a whiel. I was all like, OH no!!!!!!

[Ginobilly]

I aslo here that there are some "downlow" closet bi's in the NBA, as much as 30% by random players estimates. Scotty Pippen is rumored to be one of those and so is Richard Jefferson.

Probably Steve Francis and Mobley were "downlow" guys too? Those guys were like always together and hugging and kissing on court with way too much intimacy sometimes.

[Ginobilly]

Who do ya'll think on the spurs is a /closet/downlow guy? I never seen Rasho with a girl before. Every one on the spurs has a chick except for him.

[MannyIsGod]

And the topic has officialy gone to .

[Kori Ellis]

Who do ya'll think on the spurs is a /closet/downlow guy? I never seen Rasho with a girl before. Every one on the spurs has a chick except for him.

Many people have seen Rasho with women all the time.

Get back on the topic.

[Spurminator]

My last question would be a good start...

The reason I ask is that while in the beginning, the reforms may be well-intentioned, when do they end? Any attempt at a return to normalsy would be met with a ton of resistance and race baiting.

Now, I'm not saying we should resist reforms BECAUSE of the lack of an "end point"... only that we should set a firm Finish Line before putting them into effect.

[MannyIsGod]

If it's a system that specificaly targers minorities due to what has happend in the past, a begining point would be when minorities don't make up dispraportionate percentages in povert and other social problems.

[Clandestino]

ginobilly seems to have a real fascination with bisexuality...bet he is one too.

[Useruser666]

If it's a system that specificaly targers minorities due to what has happend in the past, a begining point would be when minorities don't make up dispraportionate percentages in povert and other social problems.

I think the problem with that Manny is that some of those social programs breed a continuing dependance on them.

[Ginobilly]

ginobilly seems to have a real fascination with bisexuality...bet he is one too.

your sisters would tell you otherwise.