And the Spurs pay for their hubris.

[StoneBuddha]

Wow, this thread is re-hashing lots of bad memories.

I think I need a little more to digest the Ginobili news before finishing this thread out. Too many what if's that panned out poorly for the Spurs. Sigh.

It feels like the early part of the decade, where the Spurs needed to rebuild in a bad way to get over the hump, only Duncan is no longer in his prime. Who knows, maybe some combination of Ian/Splittler/Gist/Hill can be the youth infusion to jump start the Spurs again.

[SpursWench21]

Pretty much what I've been telling people since 2007. That le led to bad decisions, and the damage is done.

The Spurs aren't legit contenders anymore, and they weren't before Manu's season was ended. They don't have the talent. Period.

And there's no way to re-stock the cupboards unless there's a miracle like a Pau Gasol-type collusion or James Gist turns into James Worthy.

Ian Mahinmi will be off the roster by July 15th (I think more likely than not, at least 51-49 that he's gone). There's no first round pick this summer, and even if there was, Pop would play some washed up completely shot vet instead anyway. Tiago Splitter will never be a Spur. Michael Finley will still be on the rost with a no-trade clause. Ditto for Kurt Thomas. Bonner will be under contract.

There's no money for free agency even if the economy was awesome. The most they can do is re-sign Drew Gooden (no difference maker) or sign Rasheed Wallace (no difference maker at this point in his career). There's nothing they can do.

The Spurs flat out weren't talented enough to be throwing away good players who were available only to them at a small, reasonable contract like Scola.

And when you talk about hubris don't forget how the Spurs handled Splitter. While Rudy Fernandez was getting wined and dined and begged by all the Portland top brass according to blazer boards at the time, RC, Lindsey and Pop all sat around town twiddling their thumbs refusing to guarantee Splitter whatever he wanted with regards to playing time to get him to to sign the contract. Paying him no respect while expecting him to give up many millions of dollars, Splitter is left with Tau singing in his ear about how important he is and how much he's worth.

+1 Well put sir...those are some solid points. I hope the front office gets its act together and scrambles a bit earlier (due to this news) to set us up nicely for 09-10. Regardless, lets see how much damage we can still cause in the west. Go Spurs!

[Marcus Bryant]

You're under no obligation to give them money...they have an obligation to their ownership to turn a profit.

The citizens of Bexar County are, in fact, under such an obligation.

And I included the ownership, who took public money under the guise of it enabling them to compete for championships throughout the life of the arena and instead have pocketed it.

And I do need someone to point out specific alternatives. All I've read so far is a bunch of no-nothing blowhards complain about the way things were done, with nothing to offer in terms of how it should have been. If you know of a better way, share it with us.

ROFL. Pay attention more.

[ElNono]

The citizens of Bexar County are, in fact, under such an obligation.

No they're not. They got asked to vote and they agreed to give that tax money to the Spurs. Nobody twisted their arms to vote for the venue tax extension.

[I Love Me Some Me]

The citizens of Bexar County are, in fact, under such an obligation.

And I included the ownership, who took public money under the guise of it enabling them to compete for championships throughout the life of the arena and instead have pocketed it.




ROFL. Pay attention more.

Your beef is with the county, not with the Spurs.

And pay more attention to what? All I've read about is Scola, who's a nice player but isn't a real difference between a championship or not. If you think he is, watch what Bynum/Gasol do to him should Houston meet LA in the playoffs.

So, besides God-Scola...what else was out there? Find me a better options for the same price. You can't...so you'll pretend like you've already said it even though you haven't.

[Marcus Bryant]

No they're not. They got asked to vote and they agreed to give that tax money to the Spurs. Nobody twisted their arms to vote for the venue tax extension.

The obligation still exists.

[ElNono]

The obligation still exists.

Yeah, but it was their choice. That's not the Spurs fault. They could have voted no, and the obligation would not have been there.
If you don't like how the vote went, you need to be pissed at the Bexar county citizens, not the Spurs.

[Dex]

[Marcus Bryant]

Your beef is with the county, not with the Spurs.

And pay more attention to what? All I've read about is Scola, who's a nice player but isn't a real difference between a championship or not. If you think he is, watch what Bynum/Gasol do to him should Houston meet LA in the playoffs.

So, besides God-Scola...what else was out there? Find me a better options for the same price. You can't...so you'll pretend like you've already said it even though you haven't.

My beef is with the Spurs. Time and time again they have not made an effort to maximize their chances of winning championships with one of the greatest bigmen in the history of the game and the greatest player in franchise history in his prime on their roster.

They've passed on opportunities to add talent for the short term gain of Lux Tax payouts. Once upon a time the Spurs were screwed by cap rules which favored larger markets. Now with cap rules which have removed that impediment the Spurs do not take advantage of those rules to add talent, but rather to pursue short term profit.

And spare me the 'they're just maximizing their profits as they should' bull . Pro franchise owners make their $ on the exit.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, but it was their choice. That's not the Spurs fault. They could have voted no, and the obligation would not have been there.
If you don't like how the vote went, you need to be pissed at the Bexar county citizens, not the Spurs.

Yawn. I guess you missed the $3 mil campaign for the SBC...er, at&t center funded by the Spurs.

Oh yeah, the Spurs wanted no part of that and, golly gee, they just can't get out of sucking on the public teat.

[2Cleva]

This scenario is actually a factor in what caused the Shaq/Kobe breakup (or at least lack of more rings). Dr Buss didn't want to spend any significant money outside of Shaq and Kobe - hence why Eddie Jones wasn't kept, why the MLE was rarely used, why LA's talent dried up.

The conflict between Shaq and Kobe fed greatly into LA dealing Shaq and building around Kobe but it also was the right basketball move in hindsight to build a championship team around Kobe.

Talks of dealing Ginobili for a player only makes sense if SA was dealing him for a big-salaried player off a team wanting 2010 cap space but that doesn't seem like the SA way.

Dealing Duncan for young pieces and picks after next season could also be seen as a good basketball move but SA puts loyalty above compe ion so that's not happening either.

The mentality of relying so heavily on the Big 3 was faulty in hindsight but the bigger problem was the FA mindset. Forget Scola/Splitter - only bringing old vets in FA and not stocking the shelf with younger athletes was the killer.

I'm not sure how SA turns it around at this point. Not much in the way of salary to trade.

[I Love Me Some Me]

They've passed on opportunities to add talent for the short term gain of Lux Tax payouts.

Like who?

Well, other than Luis Barkley.

[Marcus Bryant]

How many times have they actually used their Mid-Level Exception in the last 5 years?

Well, other than Luis Barkley.

Have you seen him play this season? Spurs fans are worse than 9/11 conspiracy nuts when it comes to Scola's game.

[ElNono]

Yawn. I guess you missed the $3 mil campaign for the SBC...er, at&t center funded by the Spurs.

Oh yeah, the Spurs wanted no part of that and, golly gee, they just can't get out of sucking on the public teat.

Of course they wanted the money. And it was also clearly stated that Bexar county was not getting part ownership for said money. So what are you ing about again?

I never claimed that this FO never made mistakes. I'm on the record that they screwed up with the Scola situation completely. That said, you have to be a spoiled brat to be whining about winning 'only' 4 championships. As I said earlier, that's 4 more championships than a whole host of other much more resourceful teams.

Some people have very bad memory. If not for Big Dave, you might not even have a San Antonio Spurs to about.

[I Love Me Some Me]

How many times have they actually used their Mid-Level Exception in the last 5 years?



Have you seen him play this season? Spurs fans are worse than 9/11 conspiracy nuts when it comes to Scola's game.

What player willing to take a MLE contract should the Spurs have signed that would make them a chamionship contender today? James Posey, maybe....and remember, they did offer the full MLE to Maggette last summer, but were turned down.

Scola is a nice player, but if you think he bridges this team from where they are now to a chamionship you're wrong.

[ploto]

They got asked to vote and they agreed to give that tax money to the Spurs. Nobody twisted their arms to vote for the venue tax extension.

Spurs did a good job of getting the county to package it with a lot of other things that people supported and who did not really realize the vast majority of the money was going to the AT&T. The commercials showed kids and local sports opportunities and did not mention a word about the Spurs.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ah yes, the 'be grateful' argument. Whoopde ing do. Normally when someone doesn't fully capitalize on an opportunity they are deemed to have failed in some respect. In San Antonio we ask them if they want to try bareback the next time.

[ElNono]

What player willing to take a MLE contract should the Spurs have signed that would make them a chamionship contender today? James Posey, maybe....and remember, they did offer the full MLE to Maggette last summer, but were turned down.

Scola is a nice player, but if you think he bridges this team from where they are now to a chamionship you're wrong.

They did sign Horry as a free agent, and we did win 2 championships with him. Short memory, I tell you.

[ploto]

SA puts loyalty above compe ion so that's not happening either

Not true at all

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey, they signed Finley too. Unfortunately he hasn't joined Horry in LAB.

[ElNono]

Hey, they signed Finley too. Unfortunately he hasn't joined Horry in LAB.

Yeah well, Finley has one more championship ring than you. And after trying to win it all for many seasons, he finally found a winning franchise to get it done. You know, that would be the San Antonio Spurs.

Is he over the hill now? Probably. But nobody is taking away what he rightfully earned playing for this ballclub.

[2Cleva]

Not true at all

You really think SA would deal Duncan to rebuild around Parker like LA did with Shaq for Kobe?

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe Finley can play until he's 40. Man, I'm popping wood just thinking about that.

*BRB*

[ElNono]

Only took 3 pages to find out that what was hubris was the OP's take...

[Marcus Bryant]

Part of the problem with SA being a one horse sports town is that too many fans identify too much with the franchise and take any criticism of the team, management & ownership personally. What the F do we care if ownership makes some extra coin? We're fans, mofos. Teams cater to fans. Too many of you act as though it is we who owe ownership something. F that. That's redneck dumb.™