Correlation between pick ups

[T Park]

Once again, why does Nazr NOT get a fair shake.

Just curious, because when he was acquired we assumed he would play with Duncan a majority of the time.


SOme guys play better WITH Duncan, Some play better WITHOUT.


Rasho, plays better without, Nazr plays better WITH.


When Duncan gets back and this is proven correct, what exactly is wrong.

Is that so horrible??

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't fully understand how Nazr is that bad. I agree, naturally, but I just don't get how.

Maybe he's still nursing his injury? Or he misses new york and is bummed?

But if he somehow gets a firey determination, he can be a good player for the spurs. We've seen his capability as a rebounder, which is the 2nd most important thing he can do besides play defense.

Why does he suck so bad on defense? Why's he in the wrong place all the time? I have no idea, but I don't think any NBA player with a decent functioning brain can stay clueless on defense for long. Either he has no motivation/determination, or he's mentally handicapped. I'm going with the former.

[exstatic]

Mass did a great job last night on Brand. Elton, who actually has some moves, insisted on trying to bull through TMass. Not going to happen, short of being Shaq.

I'd have to leave Nazr off the playoff roster, too, at this point, in favor of Marks. Don't give up on him for next year, though.

[T Park]

Id leave off Massenburg before Mohammed.

Give the guy some time with Duncan BEFORE the playoffs at least.

[Jimcs50]

Mass>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Nazr...and you do not see that, you are dumber than I thought.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not about giving Nazr a fair shake, and it's not about Malik. It's about this team being put in the best position to win a championship. Nazr on this team at this point in time is not nearly as usefull as Malik would have been, and that's a given. Malik may not have contributed exactly what we needed, but the mere fact he would have contributed at all is what seperates him from Nazr.

Look, I know hindsight is 20/20 and I too thought this trade could be good basketball wise at the time of the trade. Nobody knew Duncan was going to go down. That's all fine, but the trade still sucks for this season.

Nazr still has a chance to be a damn good player in this system, but it is not going to be this year. Comparing him to Barry is flawed because one was an off season acquisition and one was a late season one. Barry had time to learn the system, and has ultimately come around. Nazr simply doens't have that luxury this year, and has done nothing to give an indication that he will be able to provide anything in a positive manner before the season is over.

Marks knows the system. Mass knows the system. Both have played well in spots, which is more than you can say for Nazr. At this point, I'd easily rather have both of them on the roster. I think even with minimum improvement Nazr can secure his spot on the post season roster, but as I said before, he has given absolutely no indication that he can even improve a little. In fact, the first thing he needs to stop is his regression, he gets worse each game.

[Jimcs50]

It's not about giving Nazr a fair shake, and it's not about Malik. It's about this team being put in the best position to win a championship. Nazr on this team at this point in time is not nearly as usefull as Malik would have been, and that's a given. Malik may not have contributed exactly what we needed, but the mere fact he would have contributed at all is what seperates him from Nazr.

Look, I know hindsight is 20/20 and I too thought this trade could be good basketball wise at the time of the trade. Nobody knew Duncan was going to go down. That's all fine, but the trade still sucks for this season.

Nazr still has a chance to be a damn good player in this system, but it is not going to be this year. Comparing him to Barry is flawed because one was an off season acquisition and one was a late season one. Barry had time to learn the system, and has ultimately come around. Nazr simply doens't have that luxury this year, and has done nothing to give an indication that he will be able to provide anything in a positive manner before the season is over.

Marks knows the system. Mass knows the system. Both have played well in spots, which is more than you can say for Nazr. At this point, I'd easily rather have both of them on the roster. I think even with minimum improvement Nazr can secure his spot on the post season roster, but as I said before, he has given absolutely no indication that he can even improve a little. In fact, the first thing he needs to stop is his regression, he gets worse each game.

Manny you are a genius...this post was absolutely sublime.

[kskonn]

I pesonally feel we are focussing so much on Nazr and malik that we forgot one important piece to the puzzle. Horry!!!! if he keeps playing like he has been then this is a mute point. I feel he has done a better job backing up TD when he went down this year than Malik ever has. Just to be clear I am not talking about one game here and there I am talking about consistenlty raising his game to help the team. Now if G Rob works out even better.

[Louae]

Nazr could turn out to be a decent adquisition IF you give him time. A lot of people loved Malik Whottt, but lets face it, he wasn't the best player around; furthermore, IMO he contributed more with his charisma and personality than did with his playing (this season ofcourse) All I'm saying is don't just hate Nazr because he came at the end of a trade you didn't like, give him a chance.

Nazr could turn out to be a decent aquisition next year. It's a big IF in my opinion, but it could happen. But you can't tell me Malik Rose wouldn't be helping this team win games while TD's been out. He's proven to do so in the past and I'm positive he'd be doing the same if he wasn't traded. That's what pisses me off. This trade made us weaker for the short term and has hurt our le chances. There's no denying that.

Even though financial reasons were the main reason for the trade, I do believe the spurs were looking to move Malik Rose to also make the team better. But I don't think they were looking to make a move to make the improvement this year. Before Duncan went down, Rose was a luxury to have. Unfortanately, he was an expensive luxury to have. Managment clearly took a risk in trading Rose so late in the season to stay in the black in future seasons. But it was a risk worth taking in their opinion at the time.

If TD doesn't get hurt, Rose would not be missed. But TD did get hurt. And that's where we felt the sting of losing Malik Rose. B/c that's when a Malik Rose becomes an important commodity to have on your roster. If you can't see that, then you're in denial mode.

[kskonn]

Nazr could turn out to be a decent aquisition next year. It's a big IF in my opinion, but it could happen. But you can't tell me Malik Rose wouldn't be helping this team win games while TD's been out. He's proven to do so in the past and I'm positive he'd be doing the same if he wasn't traded. That's what pisses me off. This trade made us weaker for the short term and has hurt our le chances. There's no denying that.

Even though financial reasons were the main reason for the trade, I do believe the spurs were looking to move Malik Rose to also make the team better. But I don't think they were looking to make a move to make the improvement this year. Before Duncan went down, Rose was a luxury to have. Unfortanately, he was an expensive luxury to have. Managment clearly took a risk in trading Rose so late in the season to stay in the black in future seasons. But it was a risk worth taking in their opinion at the time.

If TD doesn't get hurt, Rose would not be missed. But TD did get hurt. And that's where we felt the sting of losing Malik Rose. B/c that's when a Malik Rose becomes an important commodity to have on your roster. If you can't see that, then you're in denial mode.

With Horrys play since Duncan went down I don't think we have missed Malik. How much better than horry do you thnink he would be able to play. He would not be blocking the shots and hitting the threes like horry has. maybe a few more rebounds and a few more turnovers. But honestly I think even if Malik was here he would still see limited minutes because of the game horry has been bringing to the table.

[kskonn]

However i will agree that w/o horry right now we would desperately miss malik.

[Louae]

With Horrys play since Duncan went down I don't think we have missed Malik. How much better than horry do you thnink he would be able to play. He would not be blocking the shots and hitting the threes like horry has. maybe a few more rebounds and a few more turnovers. But honestly I think even if Malik was here he would still see limited minutes because of the game horry has been bringing to the table.

If you think that, then you have lot to learn young padawan. Horry could still be starting and getting minimal minutes (save him for the playoffs) with Malik being the first big man off the bench to relieve Rasho and Horry. That's a whole lot better than what we have now. Right now, Horry is getting more minutes than we'd like to give him at this point and when Horry's out, we are suffering in our pick and roll action with Marks, Mass or Mohammad setting the picks for Tony Parker. Rose would be making teams pay for leaving him out there to shoot open shots.

[slayermin]

I thought Nazr had one year left on his deal at 5mil?

If Glenn contributes to the Spurs winning it all, I am sure you can trade away Nazr's expiring deal to some team that needs a big man. Then I guess see who offers Glenn a contract and offer him a slightly lesser deal to possibly win more championships. He wanted to stay with Milwaukee his entire career. That didn't work out. Maybe he will find that SA is a great place to end his career.

[CosmicCowboy]

Rose would be making teams pay for leaving him out there to shoot open shots.

I was conditioned like Pavlovs dog to cringe and yell "nooooo!" at the TV every time Malik squared up to shoot from outside about 8 feet...

[sungo99]

Incorrect. There were other deals offered to the Spurs throughout the season that would have gotten rid of Rose for an expiring contract.

Sorry. Nevermind.

[texasqb2]

I think people here arent looking at the big picture of the Rose trade. This trade was not Rose for Nazr. The two first round picks mean nothing since they are going to be an the end of the round and we dont want anymore guaranteed contracts anyway. Like it or not, Rose was not gonna help us in the playoffs for the games we need him to (Pistons/Heat) as he is too undersized to guard Shaq, Nazr can. Nazr cannot produce on the offensive end unless its put backs, and thats why hes not playing with Duncan out, we need scoring, but playing alongside Duncan against the Heat, I love this deal. Not only that, this trade allows us not to pay Malik Rose 7-8 million dollars and in turn, we are able to bring Scola over guaranteed. Look at the big picture here....

[MannyIsGod]

Texas, did you not read this thread? Or the other ones? All of that's been covered.

Nazr couldn't guard Chris and his weak ass hook in the lane at this point.

it, I'm going on the record with this one.

Chris with a weak hook >>>> Nazr

[kskonn]

If you think that, then you have lot to learn young padawan. Horry could still be starting and getting minimal minutes (save him for the playoffs) with Malik being the first big man off the bench to relieve Rasho and Horry. That's a whole lot better than what we have now. Right now, Horry is getting more minutes than we'd like to give him at this point and when Horry's out, we are suffering in our pick and roll action with Marks, Mass or Mohammad setting the picks for Tony Parker. Rose would be making teams pay for leaving him out there to shoot open shots.

Like i said there are certain things that Malik does well. And I agree if Malik was here maybe we rest horry. Except that Horry always played in front of Malik, and that was not going to change!! But name one game since duncan has been out that malik would have made a difference. and don't say the new york game. Honestly there are some games that if horry had not been in there we would not have won . What about this scenario, maybe if malik was in the game maybe we would have ended up losing because he might have taken Horrys playing time. And seriously when has Malik consistently made teams Pay by spotting up for wide open jumpers. He has always been streaky. I have never heard an opposing coach say, " guys we have to focus on not letting Malik get open shots, If we do he could kill us".....

[kskonn]

I was conditioned like Pavlovs dog to cringe and yell "nooooo!" at the TV every time Malik squared up to shoot from outside about 8 feet...

true true

[sungo99]

If Malik Rose was an asshole no one would be having this conversation.

The Spurs traded an old, redundant below average PF who makes ~$26 million over the next four years and two first-round picks the Spurs didn't need. They received a young, below average C who will make $5.5 million next year. At that point he will go and the Spurs will have the ~$20 million (or ~$7 million a year) to use with the mid-level exception.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Like i said there are certain things that Malik does well. And I agree if Malik was here maybe we rest horry. Except that Horry always played in front of Malik, and that was not going to change!! But name one game since duncan has been out that malik would have made a difference. and don't say the new york game. Honestly there are some games that if horry had not been in there we would not have won . What about this scenario, maybe if malik was in the game maybe we would have ended up losing because he might have taken Horrys playing time. And seriously when has Malik consistently made teams Pay by spotting up for wide open jumpers. He has always been streaky. I have never heard an opposing coach say, " guys we have to focus on not letting Malik get open shots, If we do he could kill us".....

i actually thought he was as consistent this year with his jumper as he was in 2003. And thats pretty good.

[Kori Ellis]

At that point he will go and the Spurs will have the ~$20 million (or ~$7 million a year) to use with the mid-level exception.

No, they won't. They'll be over the cap and won't have Nazr's $7M to spend. They'll either have to re-sign Nazr (because they'll have his Bird's Rights to do so) and have the mid-level exception, or not sign Nazr and have the mid-level exception. They won't have money available to sign a new player. They'll have $50M in salary commited and only seven players under contract -- that doesn't even include the possible salaries of Devin and Scola.

[kskonn]

i actually thought he was as consistent this year with his jumper as he was in 2003. And thats pretty good.

Oh he was but I don't think that is his strength. i do not think he should be looking for the jumper. That is what got him pops dog house originally, trying to do to much. His stregth is being scrappy, getting boards, easy put backs, getting to loose balls, out hustling the other team. That is what he did really well in the 03 playoffs. That and that sweet ass dunk over mutumbo. That was classic. Pop said it best. He was trying to to more to earn his contract and was not doing what got him the contract.

[timvp]

Untrue. The Spurs aren't owned by Cablevision. [awaits "Holt is cheap" retort]

What aren't you understanding. This saves no money long-term unless the Spurs don't re-sign Nazr or Nazr sucks so much that the Spurs can get him for next to nothing. An average center in this league is getting paid way more than what is left on Rose's contract. So no matter how you slice it, the Spurs either have a good player who they have to pay a lot to keep and thus lose money on the trade, the Spurs will watch Nazr leave in free agency or the Spurs have a sucky player who can be picked up for cheap.

What aren't you understanding? This wasn't an economic move unless they knew Nazr was trash from the get go.

[ChumpDumper]

What aren't you understanding?

What aren't you understanding? The Spurs didn't want to pay Malik more and more every year just to get beat out by whatever old fart they signed. If they spend exactly the money on Nazr, it will be because he can play the minutes and role everyone thought Malik would when he signed the contract. What aren't you understanding?