how many guys actually make other guys better around them
duncan,kidd who else?
How many guys have been in the NBA 9 years and never made the playoffs? In an era when over half of the teams get playoff berths every season?
How many guys have been traded to teams that won 50 games the year before and hadn't missed the playoffs in 21 seasons, and failed to make the playoffs?
RASHO!!!
james is getting there
You can argue Steve Nash and Shaq for sure.
, I'd say Manu does, just with his energy.
Lots of good players improve those around them... and some, like Kobe, actually suck energy away from others
Pull the trigger POP!!! Make it happen. Shareef = Chmpionship every year until he retires!!!!!!! The power of the arm leg leg arm head will be with the Spurs!!!!
Him and Nazr in the frontcourt?!? Unbeatable!!
Praise Allah!
This is the complete list of players that make other teammates better around them. This is defined as players that increase the average +/- points on all their teammates when the teammates play with him. I will limit the list to all the players with significant minutes (at least 1000 minutes) and positive contributions. The list is sorted by raw +/- numbers.
Name - Team (raw+/- Net48+/-)
T. Duncan - Spurs (+694 +15.1)
E. Ginobili - Spurs (+672 +14.7)
S. Nash - Suns (+662 +12.4)
S. Marion - Suns (+660 +10.1)
D. Nowitzki - Mavericks (+585 +9.3)
E. Jones - Heat (+493 +8.4)
T. Prince - Pistons (+434 +6.9)
R. Hamilton - Pistons (+425 +7.0)
R. Wallace - Pistons (+372 +6.6)
S. Battier - Grizzles (+332 +6.3)
R. Lewis - Sonics (+327 +5.8)
J. Barry - Rockets (+296 +11.6)
R. Radmanovic - Sonics (+287 +7.4)
R. Allen - Sonics (+273 +4.3)
P. Pierce - Celtics (+207 +3.7)
E. Brand - Clippers (+181 +2.9)
L. James - Cavaliers (+160 +2.3)
S. Jackson - Pacers (+145 +3.9)
J. Collins - Nets (+134 +2.6)
Z. Ilgauskas - Cavaliers (+132 +2.4)
G. Arenas - Wizards (+92 +1.3)
B. Cook - Lakers (+78 +3.5)
It cracks me up how grabbing a long, athletic forward who can average 20 and 10 is a mistake.
Christ, this franchise was built on reclamation projects. The guy can already ball on offense, teach him how to play defense and you're set.
It's very hypocritical IMO that the same people who worship reclamation/project players of ours like Malik, Buckets, Glenn Robinson, etc. can so blindly say this guy would suck in the silver and black.
You can't teach height and athleticism, which he has. And as a complimentary player, he would excel after we taught him how to really play D. If he wants to come you have to make room, but I suspect someone will give him a sweeter deal.
Ask the Grizz, Hawks and Blazers.
Come to think of it...ask the Lakers.
Box score jockey.Christ, this franchise was built on reclamation projects. The guy can already ball on offense, teach him how to play defense and you're set.
Nothing hypocritical about it.It's very hypocritical IMO that the same people who worship reclamation/project players of ours like Malik, Buckets, Glenn Robinson, etc. can so blindly say this guy would suck in the silver and black.
Malik and Jax were essentially rookies.....Not 10 year vets. Nothing needed to be reclaimed with Big Dogg except his reputation...he's a proven winner(except when he played with SAR).
Jax is living proof that stats aren't everything...Statistically Hedo was a better player...who do you take?
They don't give you a trophy for that.You can't teach height and athleticism, which he has.
Um your last project just lost a game for us on the last play...note I said lose...I didn't say he failed to get 10 boards...I said lost...lose...as in not win. Due to ing up.And as a complimentary player, he would excel after we taught him how to really play D. If he wants to come you have to make room, but I suspect someone will give him a sweeter deal.
Go ahead and excuse it....but just remember that excuses don't win playoff games or les.
Last project? Yeah, Malik's never had anyone score on him at the end of a game. Or Tim, or Tony, or Manu, or...
But hey, Malik is going to the Hall of Fame, why am I even questioning it?
Oh they didn't score on Nazr...they scored on open space.
I cant believe what I have read in this thread. You guys actually dont want SAR if we can get him cheap?-What in the world??? Are we talking about the same guy who's career avg is 20 PPG and 8 RPG? Granted he may not be in his prime (he is only 28 but he has had some injuries), but the guy still averaged 17 point and 7 boards a game while shooting over 50%!
Whottt, try reading the whole sentence next time. OVERALL the team Shareef has joined, had an improved record. I didn't say everytime, all the time, or that the team he joined didn't lose more games during his first year.
I can't believe we are still discussing this since most agree this will never happen.
But I can see whottt's point - you CANNOT judge a player by numbers alone.
First, why is SAR's ppg so large? Wasn't he on teams with not many scorers? If he's a career 50% FG maker, where is he taking these shots? Will he just get in the way of our bigs?
I'm not saying not to take him, I'm just saying you can't automatically assume a player will help your team just because he had high numbers on another team. You have to look at how he got those numbers, and how he will fit in to your system.
It's just not true though...his over all impact with the Grizz from the time was drafted was +8 wins...yet I question that..because the year after he left they won the same amount of games...that marginal 8 game improvement in Grizz his career over what they did in their expansion year could be explained a lot of ways..probably the least of which is SAR's impact, since they won the same amount of games without him!
Overall I guess you could give him credit for the +9 with the Hawks...But those were probably the most talented teams he played on....
Portland his impact has been -24 games...
So no...he hasn't imprvoved the teams he's been on unless you want to count the Hawks and ignore the contributions of guys like Kukoc, Ratliff and Robinson.
Overall he's had a negative impact of -10 wins to all his teams combined.
And it's funny because everyone acts like losing Rasheed jutifies the Blazers plunge...but SAR actually puts up better statistics than Rasheed and he doesn't get all the T's.....
So you can't use the loss of Rasheed as an excuse for the Blazers while at the same time citing SAR's stats as proof of him helping his teams win...
Statistically he was an upgrade over Rasheed....The Blazers don't lack talent anyway...it's not why they lose.
SAR will not be cheap enough for the Spurs to sign so this whole discussion is academic...the myth of players in their prime taking significantly less money than market value to "win a ring" is just that...a myth...
SA canīt offer to Shareef a Starter Spot, and i donīt think Shareef want come to SA to play from the bench
I know the topic is a moot point. But I think many have presented facts that Shareef has not hurt any of the teams he has played on in any way other than being a red herring. Maybe he is a black cat to the luck of teams he plays for, but there is no way to prove that.
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