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more often than not its been tony parker who teams have been forced to recognize in the postseason and adjust their game plan to stop. some of you need to buy a ing clue.
I couldn't agree more that TPark is San Antonio's chosen son. From that day he first arrived here, all spindly and way-too-young to be an NBA player, he has captured our hearts.
As for shooting foul shots, an amazing number of people with no NBA experience whatsoever can shoot at 100%. It's so easy that a lot of people just don't understand why it's not as easy for people making a couple million a year. It's just incredibly easy.
It could very well be a mind-set. From my earliest days playing BB, I was told that the FT was the easiest shot. You had to have skill for a perimeter shot and you had to have guts for the drive-to-the-basket, but the foul shot was just the easiest thing in the world. For that reason, this is how I always approached the foul line.
Could it be that somebody has told the Spurs that everything else is easy, but the FT is almost impossible?
more often than not its been tony parker who teams have been forced to recognize in the postseason and adjust their game plan to stop. some of you need to buy a ing clue.
That's a very valid point Shoog. The Spurs organization has the best winning percentage in the league during the time Pop has been here. And there are sports psychologists out there who have completed the education and have proven themselves working with athletes. So it is probably more than a little presumptuous for me to suggest a solution that they haven't thought of. I posted on this one subject because it is something I know a bit about. Since you brought it up I will give my opinion. It's worth exactly what it costs.Very interesting read. One point though: you state a lot of what the problems are, but kind of skimp on the solutions. I figure that means one of two things:
1. There are no solutions, and sports psychologists are a bunch of charlatans.I understand, since you want to be one, why you wouldn't mention this.
2. There are solutions, but a future sports psychologist sure ain't gonna give them out for free.
At this point in the season there probably is no solution. Pop has said several times that the Spurs have to remember to play their own game. They can't be successful trying to play Phoenix's game or Seattles or any other team's. Free throw shooting is obviously a weakness. Hopefully the rest of their game will be enough to let them overcome that weakness. The rest of their game is pretty damned good. [And that goes for individuals too.]
The reason I didn't suggest that a sports psychologist could help them is because I don't think that is what they need. [At least not what they need most.] If you read back through the posts you will see that it is all the other people who have been saying that the Spurs' free throw problems are all mental. I disagreed. I think there is [obviously] a mental component but that is not the main problem.
My opinion? I think the Spurs need to work with a good free throw coach in the offseason. [And a GOOD free throw coach will also understand the mental game.] A number of them just have piss poor mechanics. They need practice and repe ion but they need repe ion of the right things. The rest of these people can say what they want but they aren't going to make a lot of improvement in their overall free throw shooting by taking an extra 1,000 free throws a day with poor mechanics. Anybody who knows anything about basketball would understand that. A flat shot "sees" a much smaller target and has a much smaller margin for error. It also comes in hot and is a lot less likely to get a "shooter's roll" and bounce in. Several of the Spurs get most of their power from the small muscles in their upper bodies. Those muscles push the ball forward not upward. Poor mechanics. Flat shots. Missed free throws.
The other thing I said was that with poor mechanics [flat shots] their touch has to be a lot better. Late in games when they are tired they lose some of that touch. Maybe not much. But with such a small margin for error they miss more shots. And remember that one shot out of ten is the difference between a so-so free throw shooter and a pretty damned good one.
There are two big problems with working with a free throw coach in the offseason is that it would involve a complete re-make of the players' free throw mechanics. Routine. Stance. Stroke. Everything. A lot of pro athletes just say "Don't screw with my stroke". And it's hard to make them accept the change. [Here is one example www.athletics.ucr.edu/askstan033004.html]
The other difficulty [and one that a lot of people might not understand] is that the players might be right. By the time they make the pros they know their games. You screw with their shooting stance on free throws and it can cause them problems with their shots from the floor. Look at that shot that Duncan shoots from the top of the key. His mechanics, his stroke are totally different than the free throws that he shoots from almost the same place on the floor. He doesn't have to think about that shot and he is deadly with it. Sometimes if you get a player thinking mechanically about something he or she does instinctively it can really cause them problems. And that is where it helps to have a sports psychologist working with them at the same time. [Or a free throw coach who is also a sports psychologist.]
Like I said I posted about this one subject because I know something about it. Anybody who has played a sport at a relatively serious level will recognize that there is at least some truth in what I said. It shouldn't surprise me that the TV jocks would wade in with insults.
Is free throw shooting a weakness for the Spurs? Absolutely. Could it cost them a tight game? It's possible. But is Tony Parker an offensive liability? Nope. Especially not on this team, in this system. Nobody calls Steve Francis an offensive liability. He scores 21 points a game and shoots 82% from the line. Would Pop trade Parker for Stevie Franchise? Not a chance. And how about Luke Ridnour? He shoots 88% from the line. Nobody's ever going to use the Hack-a-Luke strategy. If Ridnour was on this team along with Parker and it was the last four minutes of a playoff game which point guard do you think would be on the floor? Ridnour? Or the Notorious Offensive Liability Tony Parker?
If you drop a ball from directly above a hoop the "target" is a perfect circle. The ball would have a lot of margin for error in going through. For a ball coming towards a hoop at an angle the effective target is flattened into an ellipse and there is much less margin for error. A ball coming in at a 45 degree angle has a 60% larger target than one coming in at a 30 degree angle. How would you like to compete at throwing darts against a guy throwing at a 60% larger target? Think you would win many matches? Do you think you could beat the other guy by practicing throwing more darts at your smaller target? Not if the other guy was practicing too. Your only chance would be if you could shoot at a larger target too. I'm not surprised that Parker makes 13% fewer free throws than Reggie Miller. I'm surprised that the difference is ONLY 13%.
There. I'm done. With the subject and with posting to this forum. I called the guy a bully because he is. [An anonymous message board gives him that luxury.] I called him a moron because a) he is wrong and b) when confronted with the fact he is wrong he chooses to get louder [figuratively] and more abusive. But I was wrong too. I chose the word moron because I didn't want to use the more appropriate word asshole.
Have a good day.
Last edited by IBleedSilverBlack; 05-10-2005 at 12:42 PM.
Thats an interesting subject that became a funny thread...
Why not just say "TP sucks from the FT line he has to improve in that area, anyway he's a good point guard..."
That's what Aggie meant in his pparticular way of posting... He was disapointed and pointed out a fact. I understand. IBleed your takes were interesting but you should have treated him with more respect as you didn't, imo, get why he posted that...
As a result, 1 less poster...
I believe its definitely a mental thing. I think Pop use to harp on it so much in practice and force these guys to shoot so much that they got into the games and were thinking too much and trying too hard b/c they knew it was such a big problem. How else do you explain this....
Tim Duncan: Since 2001, here is his FT%...80%, 71%, 60%, 67%
Tony Parker: Since 2002...76%, 70%, 65%
Rasho Nesterovic: Year before coming to the spurs (64%), 2 yrs in SA (47%)
Bruce Bowen: Year before coming to the spurs (61%), first 2 yrs in SA (48%, 40%)
This just makes me think the Spurs harp too much on this and the players feel too much pressure to miss FTs or something, unless their is a free throw bricking bug going around
This topic never meant more than today... he missed four huge free throws in the fourth quarter... but the blame isnt just with him... 19 for 34.. thats just a killer.
Bump, GSH needs to update his "stats."
GSH, you're awful quiet today.
manu was 6-10 today
not exactly awesome and he missed atleast 2 key free throws today
also duncan missed atleast 2
I'm reminded of Tracy McGrady missing some key free throws during a 4th quarter against the Mavs in Game 4 or 5 in the 1st round. Maybe JVG should've thought about taking him off the court instead of revealing to the world what Deep Throat told him.
If you take Tony Parker off the court then you are saying that there is someone better on the team at that position. That is absurd.
Yet another effort by AHF to resurrect (and confirm) Aggie jokes.
Singling out one person for the FT failures last night is laughable.
Interesting theory. I wonder how former Spurs have fared with their new teams? Has their FT percentage improved?
I'm not singling anyone out other than GSH. For all his personal shots, and for saying BFD about Tony's late game FT shooting.
You want to know what's a perfect Aggie joke? The one about the guy who needed 75 different user names on Spursreport, and is halfway there now, Sparky/Marcus Bryant/Spursfan/violent kitten/etc.
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