I wanted to make a couple of observations about the Spurs free throw shooting in general and Tony Parker as an offensive liability. Apologize in advance for the length. I usually just lurk. Some of the things GSH said were pretty much correct. Some of the other comments were just ridiculous. I decided to respond because this one I know something about.
For the record, I played two different sports [baseball and golf] at the professional level. I should say semi professional since I didn't make a living at it. My shortcomings weren't in the field or tee to green. I struggled at the plate and I struggled putting the little ball into the little cup. I worked with some well known sports psychologists who also work with a lot of basketball players. I am going back to school and plan to become a sports psychologist myself. [I will expect and live with the "if you can't do it coach it" comments.]
LOL. Don't expect to see the hack-a-Tony show up as a strategy any time soon. You are a moron and a message board bully. Tony Parker is not an offensive liability but you are offensive and a liability to other Aggies. Ignore on.
Repe ion is about two things. Developing "muscle memory" and helping visualization. The idea is to be able to be able to shoot them without thinking about it and let the subconscious take over. Repe ion can help that. Repe ion can also reinforce bad habits. If you practice bad technique you might start making more shots in the gym but have trouble in a game situation. Tim Duncan's form is just plain old bad. He overcomes it with great athletic skill and concentration. But it's subject to breaking down under pressure OR under fatigue.
When the Spurs start bricking free throws you can bet that they are a lot flatter. It comes from using the small muscles in the upper body more than the big muscles in the legs. Fatigue contributes to that. Not always because their legs won't work. [They are well conditioned athletes.] But it's a lot easier to toss up a shot with their arms than to force those legs to drive. If a player learned bad technique as a kid it's really difficult for them to keep from falling back into bad habits when they are fatigued. It's a lot easier to talk about muscle memory and concentration from the safety of the bleachers.
Does the Spurs defensive effort contribute to their fatigue level in the fourth? You damn betcha it does. I won't go off about the different muscles used in lateral movement small/large muscles or fast/slow twitch muscle fibers. But it makes a difference that the Spurs pound it on the defensive end the way they do. Does that contribute to free throw problems late in games? Probably. Could they overcome it by concentrating on better technique? Sometimes they do. But some people quit smoking through sheer willpower and go back to it when they are stressed. Maybe not every time they are stressed. But sometimes.
They did an experiment where they asked basketball players to shoot 100 free throws on the court and then close their eyes and visualize shooting another 100 free throws. They found that they missed just about the same percentage both ways. I know that sounds like BS. Why would a player ever miss a mental free throw? After all it is their own imagination. All they have to do is imagine it going in rather than clanking iron. But there's the problem. They can't imagine it going in. If they could they would probably make more of them on the court as well. The human mind is a very strange place to live.
I said I wasn't going to respond to this moron any more but I lied. [The ignore goes on after I finish this post.] Here is an article from the Pacers NBA.com website from last season.
Q. I respect Reggie Miller for all that he has contributed to the game during his career. Obviously, his legacy goes hand-in-hand with the Pacers organization. I know this especially because I am also a Jazz fan and the organization may not still be in Utah had it not been for Karl Malone and John Stockton. With Reggie getting up there in age, and with his performance perhaps not what we all hope it could be, do you feel that Reggie could be a liability to the team? Doubtless we are all happy to see him back and healthy, but if Reggie wasn't Reggie, do you think he would still get the minutes he is getting, or is his presence and leadership on the floor compensation enough for what his numbers might be lacking?
A. At the risk of sounding like someone making excuses for Reggie’s disappointing productivity, there are a number of dynamics at work. Given the near-total lack of offseason conditioning work due to his ankle surgery, Reggie estimated it would take at least two months of the regular season before he would feel close to 100 percent. As a jump-shooter, it’s imperative that he has his game legs underneath him. Well, it’s been a couple of months, so it’s reasonable to expect him to begin showing a little more offensive aggression. He also is working with new coach Rick Carlisle to establish the inside-out nature of the offensive system. That means he has been hyper-conscious, perhaps to a fault, of feeding the post at every opportunity. As a result, we’ve seen him pass up shots he otherwise would take in order to push the ball inside.
That said, the new year should bring a little bit more of the old Reggie. The team desperately needs his outside shooting to keep defenses honest. The more passive role he takes, the more space he’s being given. He must take advantage of that space and re-establish himself as a threat. Reputation can give a player presence for a few weeks, but production eventually has to back it up. Though he has been in a shooting slump for a few weeks, that doesn’t concern me. Every season, usually right around this time, his shot goes away for a while. And every season, it comes back.
Wow the incredible Reggie Miller in a shooting slump. And people asking if he was an offensive liability. 'Nuff said.
Great Post. Hope you post more, that was Solid.
I personaly think that the FTs are nothing but a mental thing. Even with poor form, it is possible to sit there and hit a very high percentage. But it changes completely in a game situation. You need look no further than players like Nick Anderson who develop something close to a phobia of/at the line.
It's always a mental thing with Parker. Some games he shows up mentally ready to play. Some games he doesn't. It's frustrating.
It's not about being ready. It's mental in the regard that there really is no way for him to prepare for it, he just has to do it. If he has a good run up there, eventually he'll break free.
I thought Duncan had done that with the year he shot around 80%, but he fell back into the rut.
I stopped reading there. If you have to cut on being an Aggie, you don't have a take.you are offensive and a liability to other Aggies.
As for Tony, it remains to be seen, i.e., when we start playing close games and teams start saying " it, let's foul him."
It's all mental with Tony, let's see him deliver at the FT line with a game on the line. Of late he's looked more like Kendrick Perkins than an All-Star quality PG (and I am a big Tony fan).
Until then heed your own advice and STFU.
That was a very intelligent read and I enjoyed it very much! If there are bad habits that were developed in childhood, even under duress such as 4th quarter playoff situations, one would think that a professional, I repeat "professional", would be able to stay in the zone and keep shooting with good form. But, you make a good point about the human mind being a strange place!
No, it´s not mental
When TD or TP goes to the line, they are shooting stones to the boards, like the rim is painted in it
The shot doesn´t have arc, both need to throw more high
When Manu comes to the NBA, The Spurs coachs say his 3´s haven´t arc, and he needs to throw with more air under the ball
Same thing happens with TD and TP
May be TP have a little problem of phobia, but TD always throw in the 60%, and TP sometimes is 100% and sometimes 50%, specially in the Clutch
PS: I´m a Golf Pro too
It's a mental thing with IceColdBrewski. Sometimes he criticizes Parker and then sometimes he criticizes Parker.
Well naturaly, the actual reason the free throws are being missed is because they come off flat. But I gurantee you these guys sit there in practice and hit hundreds of free throws at a very high percentage.
The reason they can't duplicate that in a game situation is a mental one.
Well, Tony was fine last night: 7 of 8 FTs.
We'll see how he does tomorrow...
Don't look now but since Duncan came back from his ankle sprain he's shooting 81% from the FT line and through the first six games of the playoffs 89%.
He definitely is putting better arc on his FTs.
Using terms of Golf, the shot is like a Swing
A bad swing never is going to work under pressure, and a bad mechanics of free throw either
No one will attempt a Hack-a-Tony until he's shooting around 50% from the line... If you put a 67% FT shooter at the line every possession, the result is the same as having the opponent shoot 67% from the floor against you for that time, and you also have less opportunity to break on a miss. Parker is definitely below average from the line, but not enough of a liability for teams to exploit.
Besides, the only coach that might consider such a move would be Don Nelson, and he's not coaching anymore.
TP is shooting better from the line lately...his confidence is getting better...they will never use hack a tony.
Thats FT are the problem
4th Period
(1:17) [SAN] Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(1:17) [SAN 93-83] Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 (21 PTS)
(0:44) [SAN] Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(0:44) [SAN] Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 missed
Not that
1st Period
(11:20) [SAN 3-0] Parker Free Throw 1 of 1 (3 PTS)
2nd Period
(7:59) [SAN 42-26] Parker Free Throw 1 of 1 (14 PTS)
(2:23) [SAN 58-28] Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 (15 PTS)
(2:23) [SAN] Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 missed
3rd Period
(10:11) [SAN 63-37] Parker Free Throw 1 of 2 (20 PTS)
(10:11) [SAN 64-37] Parker Free Throw 2 of 2 (21 PTS)
4th Period
(5:04) [SAN 92-73] Parker Free Throw Flagrant 2 of 2 (26 PTS)
(5:04) [SAN 93-73] Parker Free Throw Flagrant 1 of 1 (27 PTS)
Tha hack never work
The worst FT shoter averages more than 50% and the best Field Shooter not
Tony is 50% from the field and 65% from the line, so it´s not business if he goes to the line
Interesting post.
No way it was too long.
I said it a couple of times, in Europe most of the things you practice when you're young are fundementals. When you can't shoot 80% from FT line you have to keep practicing again and again so I have no clue why Parker is an exception... It must be a combination of fatigue, unfocus and lack of confidence concerning that particular area...
I guess he figured that was the one thing he could work on while he healed. It sure has shown and its a huge relief considering how often Tim visits the line. In fact, mathematically speaking, it was the difference in the Denver overtime victory. If he'd shot a lower FT percentage that game, we would have lost in Denver and we would likely still be fighting for that series.
ahf makes me want to not be an aggie
How come all of our Euros suck at the FT line?
Rasho is worse than Shaq at the FT line!
We are the only team in the NBA that has poor FT shooting Euros! I think it's some kind of plot!
When we draft or sign Euro players we expect them to be good FT shooters if nothing else. And if we want lousy FT shooters we can find plenty of them over here!
You guys need to step it up.
Rasho shoots freethrows??
I dont think I have ever seen that in my life!
At least Manu and Beno are good Euros from the line!
And how about Robinson!?! (I know, not a Euro, but maybe he'll give the Spurs more confidence at the line!)
2005 Playoff FT %
Robinson 85.7%
Manu, Barry and Beno 83.3%
Horry 80%
Timmy 78%
Parker 67.6%
Nasr 65%
Bruce 57.1%
There was another thread about Barry vs Bowen in final minutes of a close game. Having Barry in gives you an advantage over Bowen: A better FT shooter.
EDIT: Whether it's worth the lack of defense on the other end is debateable.
Last edited by MadDog73; 05-09-2005 at 03:04 PM.
I hear people say things like that all the time. The reason this guy or that guy can't shoot free throws is because he doesn't try hard enough. It's easy to say that kind of stuff if you have never been there. It is difficult to explain what it's like for a whole team to be in a slump unless you have experienced it.
yes it's mental. But it's really presumptuous to suggest that it is because the players don't want it badly enough or don't work hard enough. I've taken batting practice until all the callouses on my hands peeled off and it was just bloody meat underneath. So I can also tell you that adding a physical problem to the mental one just makes things that much worse.
There were years that Bernhad Langer would have dominated world golf but he couldn't putt. You ask yourself how a guy can control his body well enough to hit a ball from 200 yards out to within 5 feet of the cup but then not be able to control it well enough to make the 5 foot putt. [I can give you a good idea of how many thousands of 5 foot puts he hit preparing himself.]
For that matter how could a guy like Gary Payton be a career 72% from the free throw line and less than that in the playoffs. [Somewhere around there. Close enough.] There was one year when Payton averaged under 60% from the line.
For that matter Nazr was shooting like 71% with the Knicks this season. He came here and has dropped to about 57%.
Having Barry in gives you an advantage over Bowen: A better FT shooter.
just dont hope for a defensive stop on the other end.
Yep, that's the trade-off. Glad I'm not Coach Pop!
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