Plus, didn't we bring him here to be a perimeter sharpshooter??? Now don't try to sell me on that, 'cause that would simply be silly.
Read this Manumania...
http://www.nba.com/games/20030505/LALSAS/boxscore.html
And there are others I can give you to read....then read that was the team that eliminated us 3 different times in the playoffs...
Then tell me how you can justify shooting 327% and 183%....
You ing can't...don't even try it. And if Barry does that you guys will rip him...
The way I look at it...you guys are either stupid, or biased...I personally think ya'll should just admit bias..because being stupid is worse.
And then it still comes back to Pop...if Barry sucks so bad then why is he getting minutes instead Big Dogg...
And BTW....I will correct you for being wrong...
Kerr scored 4PPG...this guy coming off a 3 year le run and the greatest 3 PCT shooter in NBA history...he didn't even ing shoot 30% here...call him a coward.
Mario Elie averaged 8 PPG, to Barry's 6.4....Mario Elie started for nearly the entire season...and had TWO, of the 50 greatest drawing all the attention in the paint.
And if guys say you'd be happier if Barry was jacking more shots, and shooting as badly as those guys were...you are lying....either to yourself or to me...but you are lying. And we damn sure wouldn't be a better team if he were doing it.
Stephen Jackson averaged about 6 more PPG...as a starter, in 10 minutes more per...and Pop not having a decent alternative for the games where he made 7 turnovers in the first half. Barry never gets a chance for redemption for his slow starts...Jack did...
Barry was 1-5 going into the 4th quarter of that Phoenix game and finished 6-10...Similar totals in a variety of our biggest wins...
Everyone says Jack made them when it mattered...Barry doesn't get that chance...when he does? We usually win.
And say whatever you want but if you can't see the difference between the way teams defended Hedo and the way they defend Barry...I can't help you. You don't pay attention to the game.
That is exactly what is on everyone's minds! LOL Why the isn't Big Dog in Barry's place. You can compare anything you want, just because someone was just as BAD as Barry is right now DOES NOT mean Barry is doing any better!! It goes beyond out ing Whottt. You may think we're biased, and some of us might be (personally I'm not really that interested in the matter), but you CAN'T by any measure of the word, JUSTIFY the way Barry has been playing. A player on any top caliber team CAN NOT be putting up numbers like Game 5 of the Sonics series. ESPECIALLY during the playoffs. Its simply not acceptable. Now ANYONE who's been watching the playoffs wil tell you that Barry might have been all that you say he was in the past, but right now, HE'S LOOKING LIKE AN AMATEUR!
Have Barry make 3 clutch threepointers in a row on an EXTREMELY important game IN THE PLAYOFFS and then get back to me on that one.
Then you guys aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed...Why are you ripping Barry for being put on the court by Pop? You think he decides? Rip Pop for that and watch the responses you get...
Bigg Dogg is the scorer everyone stupidly thinks career 10 PPG scorer Brent Barry is...If you want him in...rip Pop for it...I mean you guys all think Barry is a coward(again stupidly, he took paycut to come here for the express purpose of winning a ring and has stepped up many times this season when given the chance)...so why rip him for being on the court...Rip Pop for playing the gutless heartless coward...but no, you guys don't do that..because would require a modi of common sense and linear though capability...something every single Barry hater lacks...as evidenced by them continuing to make the same criticisms without any semblence of statistical backing...and ones that I have destroyed time and time again with absolute totality...I am not the changing and reversing field and throwing around lazy labels like cowardice...with absolutely no evidence to back it up, and substantial evidence to the contrary.
Barry's not put on the court to do that. He's Manu's back up remember? And Bowen damn sure isn't coming out of the line up.
But you guys don't see like that...I haven't seen any guy on this team make 3 clutch 3 pointers in a row BTW. I must have missed that game...what game was it?
Double standard.
Did you actually click on that link I posted BTW?
You know...the one where Jack was 0-6 with 4 turnovers? I don't think you did...
OK, now refute the rest of that post why don't you! I would really, really, REALLY love to see you effectively JUSTIFY Barry's performance in these past 2 series. Better yet, what explanation do you have for game 5 fo the Sonics series! which wasn't just a bad game, IT WAS MONUMENTALLY HORRIBLE! Go ahead and JUSTIFY away.
I might be wrong, but didn't Kerr make three or four 3pt shots in the fourth quarter of a 5th game of the Dallas series in the 2002-2003 playoffs? You compared Barry to Kerr, I'm just using the same comparison. For more info on that, check this article recently posted by Kori
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16426
I did, and I responded, but you must have not read the entire post
Maybe if you stopped focusing on one horrible game and looked at the playoffs as a whole it would be a little easier to justify. I don't think anyone can justify Game 5, but I for one think Barry has helped the Spurs more then he has hurt them in the playoffs so far. But then again, I'm biased.
Ok, I see you stating your opinion, now back it up by fact. What has Barry done to merit his minutes these series. I'm not focusing on one game, that was just the tip of the ice berg. His defence is laskluster, and his offense is non-existent, please tell me what it is he's brought to these playoffs, brilliant passing?? uuh... cheerfull demeanor?? what?
Correct me if I am wrong...but wasn't that Kerr's 5 year with the team? What he did he do his first season? It took him 5 years and a two trades to finally adjust...if you are going to use that in your argument...I will concede the point...in 5 years.
How often do you think a guy is going to come off the bench to hit 877% from 3 for a playoff run?
Double standard...and please stop posting FSP articles to back up your point...these are same people I argue with anyway...them writing it in an article doesn't make them any less wrong than when I argue with them in a thread.
Screw this I am going dig up some of the many 2-5 point, 1-6 games Manu had in his first playoffs, and he frequently broke the offense and pissed Pop off...Pop just to had to deal with it because Manu helped the team...maybe then you'll get it.
I peronally think anyone that considers Manu an AS by overlooking his scoring etc...compared to the other two guards...and yet rips Barry for his scoring...is a hypocrite of epic proportions...you talk the talk but you only walk the walk when it suits you.
Last edited by whottt; 05-22-2005 at 03:57 AM.
Six straight playoff wins as a starter.
Also for lackluster defense, he sure as did an incredible job shutting down Lewis in Game 1, and containing both Lewis and Allen in Game 2.
I read them all...
You ripped Barry for a bad performance and said there was no justification for it...and then you turned around and justified Jack doing it...with 4 turnovers to boot, more than Barry has made in any game this season.
That's called contradicting your self...or being a Barry hater....take your pick.
See thats what you keep sticking too. You think that because Manu was bad during the first year on this team, its all of a sudden alright for Barry to suck aswell. I DON'T hate Barry Whott, I'm sure next year he could be better after having spent more time with the team. However, FOR WHATEVER REASON IT MIGHT BE, IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT BARRY IS PLAYING HORRIBLY!!!! See, it seems to me that I'M NOT the one that's being biased, its you! I never argued that Manu was good in that first year, although I will argue that Manu did more for the 2002-2003 championship than Barry is doing now. Barry is simply NOT PLAYING WELL!! and in all your posts in this thread, YOU HAVE NEVER ARGUED OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE SIMPLY TRIED TO JUSTIFY IT, AND DOING A BAD JOB AT IT ASWELL.
I don't think you can even compare Manu's game to Barry's. Barry has never had the all-around game that Manu has today, NEVER. What Manu brings to the picture Barry couldn't bring if his life depended on it. Manu is an All-star because of SO MUCH more than his scoring, if you don't think so, that's not our problem, its your missconception. So in the future, if you just can't find a way to excuse precious Barry, don't try and compare him to Manu 'cause its like comparing apples and oranges, they are simply not even in the same ballpark.
Furthermore, Manu's first year was also beset with language issues, style of play adjustments, learning the system (european to NBA), etc etc etc. I really don't think Barry had to go through even a small part of that.
The articles aren't from posters in here numbnuts, ofcourse Kori and TimVP posted the articles in the forum, but those articles are from sports journalists.
??? You must be kidding!! Are you comparing Barry's Game 5 performance to what jackson did??! Jackson AT LEAST had 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 1 steal!!!! WHAT DID BARRY HAVE????
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND!!??? Thos wins CAN NOT in ANY IMAGINABLE WAY be attributed to BARRY!!! Those were Manu, Nazr, Horry and Tim, and you can stop counting there!! Everyone else just chipped in, and Barry least of all!!
Show me he's playing horribly...don't use 1 game either. Hint: You'll have to do better than a POSTIVE +/- ratio subbing behind the league leader in +/-.
I'll tell you right now...you'll have to use something other than stats as well...because the only stat that is low is PPG...
I don't think you can even compare Manu's game to Barry's. Barry has never had the all-around game that Manu has today, NEVER. What Manu brings to the picture Barry couldn't bring if his life depended on it. Manu is an All-star because of SO MUCH more than his scoring, if you don't think so, that's not our problem, its your missconception. So in the future, if you just can't find a way to excuse precious Barry, don't try and compare him to Manu 'cause its like comparing apples and oranges, they are simply not even in the same ballpark.
Care to show me proof of that?
Barry career highs in FG% and 3 are better than Manu...
his ing career average in those categories is better than all but one of Manu's seasons.
In fact the only thing Manu has done better is score..and his best season is 16 PPG to Barry's 14.
Barry's career high in rebounds is 15 ing rebounds...
Barry's career high in assists is 16 ing assists...
His career best board and PPG totals are over 5...both better than Manu's best.
So tell me...who is backing their side up WITH FACT and who isn't?
If you are gonna say that back it up...you haven't got a ing statistical leg to stand on.
Incidentally...I agree with you that Manu is the far better player...stats be damned...
But I'd argue that he is as skilled all around as Barry...He's clearly a better scorer and defender and is much more agressive...other than that...there is ample room for debate. Manu is definitely not as good of a passer as Barry...and Manu is a great passer.
But I also contend Barry is a of a lot ing better than SpursFans give him credit for being...that's my point...that's why I am ripping some of my all time favorite players(Kerr, Jack, Manu, and Elie) to make this point...
You guys are full of and have a double standard of epic proportions against this guy. And you ing contradict your self horribly in an attempt to justify your hate.
The burden of proof IS NOT ON ME to prove he's sucked in the playoffs, THAT'S BEEN OBVIOUS!!
This is really interesting, seeing as though your whole "Barry doesn't suck" arguments have all rested on the fact that Barry doesn't play WITH MANU, the player who makes everyone better, and yet you seem intent to show that Barry is as skilled as Manu. You talk about contradiction, and then you come up with "But I'd argue that he is as skilled all around as Barry...He's clearly a better scorer and defender".Care to show me proof of that?
Barry career highs in FG% and 3 are better than Manu...
his ing career average in those categories is better than all but one of Manu's seasons.
His career rebounding and assist totals are better than Manu's...
His career averages in those categories are better than Manu's...
In fact the only thing Manu has done better is score..
Barry's career high in rebounds is 15 ing rebounds...
Barry's career high in assists is 16 ing assists...
His career best board and PPG totals are over 5...both better than Manu's best.
So tell me...who is backing their side up WITH FACT and who isn't?
If you are gonna say that back it up...you haven't got a ing statistical leg to stand on.
Incidentally...I agree with you that Manu is the far better player...stats be damned...
But I'd argue that he is as skilled all around as Barry...He's clearly a better scorer and defender...other than that...there is ample room for debate.
Furthermore, what the does career highs have to do with anything!! Wade's carreer highs in assists are also lower than Barry's, does that mean, Barry is one ounce the player that Wade is?, NO!!! Wade's rebound high is 8, does that mean Barry is a more prolific rebounder?? NOO!!!! Manu is a more proffcient scorer and a better defender, not only that, but he MAKES EVERYONE HE PLAYS WITH BETTER, WHILE ON BARRYS CASE, HE NEEDS SOMEONE TO MAKE HIM BETTER: IN THIS CASE MANU!!
You want to know what I think, I think you're just talking out of your ass so that you don't look like one for having supported someone who is simply not as good as he was made out to be. NO AMOUNT OF ING AND STUBORN ARGUMENTS WILL CHANGE THE FACT THAT BARRY HAS STUNK THESE PLAYOFFS, PERIOD!
Again, I have never said Barry is a horrible basketball player. I NEVER SAID THAT. I said he has sucked in these playoffs. YOU TURNED IT INTO A CARREER THING. You have still to show a speck of a decent argument proving that Barry has lived up to the moment, and still you insist in beating around the bush as they say! I see you will never admit defeat, which in some cases is a good thing, but can also be detrimental. I have yet to see you completely man up to a misconception you might have had, there's always a "BUT" in all your admitions. I'd hate to see your solid reputation as a poster be tarnished by stuborn necesity to always be right.
Whattt are you getting out of this Whottt?
Is Brent giving you a billion dollars to defend him?
I don't understand, you must be sick of arguing the same ing points over and over, let it go already.
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