Spurs Playoff +/- Stats

[bigbendbruisebrother]

http://www.82games.com/playoffs/045PSAS1.HTM

San Antonio Spurs
2004-2005 NBA PLAYOFF Stats

Individual Player Floor Time statistics

Player		Min 	+/- 	Off 	Def 	Net48 	W 	L 	Win% 
Ginobili 	64% 	+101 	106.6	92.3 	14.2 	10 	1 	90 
Parker 		75% 	+69 	101.7 	93.4 	8.3 	7 	4 	63 
Duncan 		71% 	+69 	98.6 	89.9 	8.7 	7 	2 	77 
Horry 		49% 	+52 	104.6 	95.1 	9.5 	8 	3 	72 
Bowen 		69% 	+34 	96.1 	91.7 	4.4 	7 	4 	63 
Udrih 		26% 	+31 	93.2 	82.7 	10.5 	7 	4 	63 
Robinson 	18% 	+31 	91.0 	76.3 	14.8 	4 	3 	57 
Nesterovic	14% 	+25 	96.5 	81.3 	15.3 	6 	2 	75 
Mohammed	49% 	+24 	93.8 	89.4 	4.4 	6 	4 	60 
Barry 		52% 	+20 	95.2 	91.7 	3.5 	5 	5 	50 
Massenburg	3% 	+5 	107.1 	93.0 	14.1 	2 	0 	100 
Brown 		4% 	+4 	108.9 	101.1 	7.8 	4 	2 	66

Legend:

Min = the percentage of the team's total minutes the player was on the floor.

+/- = net points (+/-) for the team while the player was on the floor.

Net48 = the team net points per 48 minutes of playing time for the player.

W = number of games a player's team outscored its opponents while he was on the court.

L = number of games a player's team was outscored by its opponents while he was on the court.

Win% = the winning percentage for the player based on Wins versus Losses.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Damn, I thought I got those columns lined up. I give up.

Whottt, how did you insert that table last time?

Anybody who wants to give it a try, follow the link above.

There are a lot more Spurs playoff stats there. The five man roster stats are really interesting. http://www.82games.com/playoffs/045PSAS2.HTM

The most effective lineup from a field goal percentage standpoint is Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Mohammed.

The worst lineup in terms of keeping opponents' big men out of the paint has been Parker-Barry-Bowen-Horry-Duncan. The best at preventing penetration has been Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Mohammed.

The only lineup that the Nuggets and Sonics have outscored completely is Parker-Barry-Bowen-Duncan-Mohammed. It's a -28! Switch Barry for Ginobili, and the unit goes to +15!

Find negative category, and Barry is in that rotation. Come on Bones!

Individually, from every statstistical standpoint, Manu is the man. In fact, when he's been on the bench overall for the playoffs, the Spurs have been outscored by 8 points--the only player whose off-court status causes the team to give up more points than they score.

[timvp]

What??????????

I thought Barry was the key to a championship. Whottt told me. How can he be last in +/-?

[timvp]

Damn, I thought I got those columns lined up. I give up.

Fixed.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Fixed.

Thanks!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It just goes to show Tony Massenberg is the key to the le


Ginobili 64% +101

That's sick.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

It just goes to show Tony Massenberg is the key to the le


Ginobili 64% +101

That's sick.

The most surprising thing to me was that we give up more points in the paint with Tim on the floor than we do when he is off court. Statistically at least, Horry/Mohammed has been a better (marginally so, by 8 points) combo at defending the paint than Duncan/Mohammed. That conclusion is based on the close in shot stat below. How can that be? Is Tim's ankle impeding him that much?

http://www.82games.com/playoffs/045PSAS2.HTM

Top Five-Man Floor Units
# Unit Min Off Def +/- W L Win%
1 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Duncan-Mohammed 73 118 146 -28 2 7 22
2 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Duncan 68 157 136 +21 8 2 80
3 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Duncan-Mohammed 49 103 88 +15 2 3 40
4 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Mohammed 40 96 79 +17 7 2 77
5 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Horry-Duncan 17 39 43 -4 2 4 33


Top Five-Man Floor Units, Details
# Unit eFG eFGA FTA Close dClose Reb T/O
1 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Duncan-Mohammed .419 .521 +2 35% 32% 106% -7%
2 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Duncan .528 .482 +27 30% 40% 98% +2%
3 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Duncan-Mohammed .531 .390 -5 52% 41% 109% -7%
4 Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Horry-Mohammed .642 .500 +5 25% 31% 106% 0%
5 Parker-Barry-Bowen-Horry-Duncan .534 .682 -2 41% 55% 112% +3%


Legend:

Min = the total minutes the unit was on the floor.

Off = the unit's points scored.

Def = the unit's points allowed.

+/- = the team net points for the unit.

W = number of games a unit outscored its opponents while on the court.

L = number of games a unit was outscored by its opponents while on the court.

Win% = the winning percentage for the unit based on Wins versus Losses.

[SLOVENIAN 8]

And Rasho is better than Nazr

[bigbendbruisebrother]

And Rasho is better than Nazr

It's too bad Rasho hasn't had more PT, because it would be really intersting to compare the five man units with Rasho and Nazr.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're talking about a +/- difference of one (basically a wash), and trying to compare a guy with PT of 14% to one of 50%. I know you're Slovenian, but that's still a huge reach.

Tim hasn't been near the defender he usually is, and it's the easiest way for me to see he's not healthy. Most of the time when guys drive the lane, he just gets out of the way.

[whottt]

TimVP...this is ing classic, I used +/- a week ago and you pissed all over it...I have used 82 games all season long and you pissed all over it...when it wasn't saying what you want it to say...

I'll engage in this debate with you if you promise to recognize it's relevance when it doesn't back up what you say, as much as you do when it does...

Needless to say...ol BBBB can't even handle the code function, or figure out that I made my own ing JPG to post the table, much less grasp what these numbers truly say.

I suggest you look at it again...

Before you get owned...Right now it looks like you guys can't even read, much less understand the relevance of these numbers...

For starters, bags, Barry isn't the only common factor on those worst lineups...Parker, Duncan and Bowen are on there too.





The best lineups all have Ginobili in them...I think anyone that actually watches the game understands that, when Manu is in the game...we don't run four down as much...what we do a lot of when Manu isn't in there...is watch Duncan trying to regain his offensive form...anyone that plays with Manu puts up better numbers...guess who plays fewer minutes with Manu than any other guy on the team?



Let me know if you want to continue this...but I'll only do it if you promise to acknowledge the relevance of everything, and not just what suits you, and what you want to see....either it all counts, or it doesnt.

[timvp]

I'll engage in this debate with you if you promise to recognize it's relevance

Bring it on. Show me how Brent Barry has been Michael Jordan in the playoffs. I don't care about the regular season. The Spurs are about the playoffs.

Barry has hit one or two big shots in the playoffs but Whottt is convinced that he's the key to the team. Let's see how he dances around Barry's +/- in the Seattle series.

[whottt]

Bring it on. Show me how Brent Barry has been Michael Jordan in the playoffs. I don't care about the regular season. The Spurs are about the playoffs.

That's hilarious...because I can probably find about 50 or 60 posts by you this season labeling him as a choker based on what he did in the regular season...Unfortunately you can't use that anymore because be he made you eat your words by stepping up down the stretch...

Barry has hit one or two big shots in the playoffs but Whottt is convinced that he's the key to the team. Let's see how he dances around Barry's +/- in the Seattle series.

Barry doesn't get many opportunities to hit big shots...when he does get those opportunities, he hits them.

[whottt]

Ok...

By the way...I can defend his +/- easily...we've outscored our opponents when he is on the court. Gee that was ing hard. Feel free to go to Net if you want...but you better watchout for your wife if you do it...

I'll be back to open your eyes more in a bit.

[timvp]

That's hilarious...because I can probably find about 50 or 60 posts by you this season labeling him as a choker based on what he did in the regular season...Unfortunately you can't use that anymore because be he made you eat your words by stepping up down the stretch...

Yeah he was a choker in the preseason, in the regular and now in the playoffs.

Eat my words? Billion Barry hit one three pointer. That's pretty horrible considering he was never being guarded. The Suns treated him like he was Rasho standing out there beyond the arc.

Let me know if you what photographic proof.

Barry doesn't get many opportunities to hit big shots...when he does get those opportunities, he hits them.

The only reason why he doesn't get the opportunities is because he's afraid to shoot the ball 99% of the team. He hit one shot when he was wide open.

Hedo hit more than one big shot last playoffs.

What was wrong in game five? It was the biggest game of the season and he did NOTHING in 22 minutes of play. No assists. No rebounds. No points. No steals. No nothing.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think +/- stats are very valid. There's too many factors. For example, Bowen is the starter that stays most on the floor with the scrubs. i.e. When the Spurs are winning or losing big, Bowen still stays out there with 4 non-starters. So, to me, it's logical that he wouldn't have a great +/-. Also, whoever plays with Ginobili the most gets their + boosted even if they do absolutely nothing.

So to me, this whole thread is pretty much crap unless you actually watch the games and realize all the extenuating cir stances and then add them in and make your own conclusions.

My +/- two cents.

[timvp]

Ok...

By the way...I can defend his +/- easily...we've outscored our opponents when he is on the court.

Yeah, you can say the samething for everyone on the team you dumb@$$. That might be the worst job you've ever did defending you man, and that's saying a lot.

Other than the 12th man (TMass) and the cripple (DBrown), Barry has the worst +/- on the team.

[whottt]

More....

#1. Manu, not Duncan, leads the entire NBA in playoff +/-.

#2. You notice that none of those lineups include Barry and Manu together.

#3. Those 5 man rotations are not indicative of us being out scored when Barry is in the game, or even being outscored for a segment of PT...they are indicative of what has happened when those 5 have been on the court, the minute Pop makes a subs ution it changes.

#4. That worst lineup? That's the lineup you and TPark wanted when you wanted Barry to start. Who said it wouldn't help? Certainly not you...I said it wouldn't. I said it wouldn't because of the type of offense we were playing. And it got even worse...Give props. I was right..you guys were wrong. Admit it.

#5. That second worst linup has only played 17 minutes total through 11 playoff games, that's just barely over a minute and a half per game. That's not indicative of anything really...how can you judge something a minute and half per game.

#6. The third worst lineup on our team...is our other starting line up, even with Manu, the league leader in +/- on it. What does that indicate? 4 down and 1 on 1 basketball with nonexitent passing and guys chucking up in clogged paint totally rules! Pop goes the weasel.


#7. Like I said when I owned you after Duncan and Devin went out with injury and Barry played his best ball of this season...including blowouts over both the Rockets and the Spurs, and 2 double OT wins....Barry doesn't play in the half court set we run with Duncan very well...no shooters do their first season here...

What was Pop's genius solution to getting more out of Barry? Give him even more ing minutes in that offense and even fewer with Manu(who he plays well with). ing brilliant. I've said it all season long..Barry should run the offense off the bench...Pop elects not do that because he'd rather watch Beno cause 9 point swings in the final minutes of quarters while jacking up beaucop shots with the worst FG%'s on the team. I do give Beno credit for finally upping his stats to where he is making more assists than TO's per game.


I'll be back with more...

But in closing...I'll also say that the lineup that gives up the second fewest shots in the paint...includes Brent Barry...the second best offensive lineup, also includes Brent Barry, the lineup that gets into the paint the second most...also has Barry in it...and again, unlike Parker, and Bowen, he's not getting heavy minutes with Manu, the league leader in +/- and far and away the best guy on the team in terms of +/-, he's subbing for him.

[wildbill2u]

I don't like the use of the word 'scrubs' for our bench, regardless of the merits of their individual stats in one game or the series. They are the Spurs bench, damnit, not scrubs. They are our 'spirit' team, who give their best while the heroes take a breather.

[whottt]

Yeah, you can say the samething for everyone on the team you dumb@$$. That might be the worst job you've ever did defending you man, and that's saying a lot.

Other than the 12th man (TMass) and the cripple (DBrown), Barry has the worst +/- on the team.

Yeah? And in the first Duncan, Bowen and Mohammed had the worst, I didn't hear you saying much about then....what's your point? I get it...it only counts when it suits your argument...

Kinda like you made a big deal about Net previously when it suited your argument and you mystifyingly seem to have lost your desire to focus on that now...I wonder why...but you and I both know why don't we?

[Kori Ellis]

I don't like the use of the word 'scrubs' for our bench, regardless of the merits of their individual stats in one game or the series. They are the Spurs bench, damnit, not scrubs. They are our 'spirit' team, who give their best while the heroes take a breather.

I hear ya.

But my use of the term "scrubs" has nothing to do with their performances. I call everyone's bench that. It's just my term for bench players.

[whottt]

I don't think +/- stats are very valid. There's too many factors. For example, Bowen is the starter that stays most on the floor with the scrubs. i.e. When the Spurs are winning or losing big, Bowen still stays out there with 4 non-starters. So, to me, it's logical that he wouldn't have a great +/-. Also, whoever plays with Ginobili the most gets their + boosted even if they do absolutely nothing.

So to me, this whole thread is pretty much crap unless you actually watch the games and realize all the extenuating cir stances and then add them in and make your own conclusions.

My +/- two cents.

They aren't yet...but they are essentially all we have to go on...

We could go on FG%...Barry of course sucked ass and was the worst player in NBA history, by shooting 44% from the field, 55% from 2, and 375% from 3...Against Seattle...so we won't focus on that.

Note...this is without including Barry's big game 2 from Denver...

Numbers that would put just about all of Manu's series prior to this season, his 3rd with team...to absolute shame. Bowen's too.

And you guys act like Barry can't hit the side of a Barn...


It's funny...you guys don't even notice what Beno and Bowen and all those guys are shooting....or the times in the past they have 10% from 3 and 33% from the field, in so many others playoff series...

But Barry shoots what would be good numbers for any shooter on our team in the past 6 years, including Spurs immortals like Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson...and you guys ing hate on him like there is no tomorrow...

Double Standard...and it's just flat out wrong.

[Kori Ellis]

It's funny...you guys don't even notice what Beno and Bowen and all those guys are shooting....or the times in the past they have 10% from 3 and 33% from the field, in so many others playoff series...

Everyone notices that Beno is shooting like crap. And timvp started a thread last week on how much Bowen has sucked from 2 in the post season -- maybe you missed it when you were on your post-game five hiatus from the forum.

[timvp]

More....

#1. Manu, not Duncan, leads the entire NBA in playoff +/-.

Yeah, Manu is having the playoffs of his life. What does that have to do with Billion Barry?

#2. You notice that none of those lineups include Barry and Manu together.

Manu carries Barry? Nothing new.

#3. Those 5 man rotations are not indicative of us being out scored when Barry is in the game, or even being outscored for a segment of PT...they are indicative of what has happened when those 5 have been on the court, the minute Pop makes a subs ution it changes.

Barry sucks. Admit it.

#4. That worst lineup? That's the lineup you and TPark wanted when you wanted Barry to start. Who said it wouldn't help? Certainly not you...I said it wouldn't. I said it wouldn't because of the type of offense we were playing. And it got even worse...Give props. I was right..you guys were wrong. Admit it.

You were the one spouting how good the Spurs were when Barry started. Don't turn your back on that now.

I over-estimated Barry's courage. I thought he'd step up when he was given a chance to play with the rest of the starters.

Didn't happen.

#5. That second worst linup has only played 17 minutes total through 11 playoff games, that's just barely over a minute and a half per game. That's not indicative of anything really...how can you judge something a minute and half per game.

Barry sucks. Admit it.

#6. The third worst lineup on our team...is our other starting line up, even with Manu, the league leader in +/- on it. What does that indicate? 4 down and 1 on 1 basketball with nonexitent passing and guys chucking up in clogged paint totally rules! Pop goes the weasel.

Not sure what you are babbling about. Not that that's a new thing.*

#7. Like I said when I owned you after Duncan and Devin went out with injury and Barry played his best ball of this season...including blowouts over both the Rockets and the Spurs, and 2 double OT wins....Barry doesn't play in the half court set we run with Duncan very well...no shooters do their first season here...

Regular season doesn't count. Barry sucked until he was forced to do something with most of the other players injured.

What was Pop's genius solution to getting more out of Barry? Give him even more ing minutes in that offense and even fewer with Manu(who he plays well with). ing brilliant. I've said it all season long..Barry should run the offense off the bench...Pop elects not do that because he'd rather watch Beno cause 9 point swings in the final minutes of quarters while jacking up beaucop shots with the worst FG%'s on the team. I do give Beno credit for finally upping his stats to where he is making more assists than TO's per game.


I'll be back with more...

Your stance should be that Manu = God. If you said that, it'd be hard to find stats that disprove that.

You like to say that Barry plays well with Manu ... well yeah, you could go out there with Manu and have a positive +/-.

But in closing...I'll also say that the lineup that gives up the second fewest shots in the paint...includes Brent Barry

Yeah, the defense of Billion Barry must be the deciding factor in that.

You've lost it. You're defending a guy who barely contributes even though he isn't being guarded.

Nice of you to turn down the photographic evidence that people don't guard Barry. How Barry-esque of you to get scared of a situation.

You'd make him proud.








*Cue Whottt deleting his post in a hissy fit.

[timvp]

Everyone notices that Beno is shooting like crap. And timvp started a thread last week on how much Bowen has sucked from 2 in the post season -- maybe you missed it when you were on your post-game five hiatus from the forum.