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You're crazy. If Bowen keeps locking Marion down like he did today he will get as many minutes as Matrix.But I don't see him getting as many minutes as the series goes on unless Joe Johnson gets back soon.
He did a good job against Marion. But I don't see him getting as many minutes as the series goes on unless Joe Johnson gets back soon. If Barry plays well again, he'll get a lot of those minutes. And Glenn Robinson may sometime see floor time in this series.
The Suns don't have a superstar wing player like the Nuggets and Sonics did. I would be surprised if he doesn't play less minutes in this series.
You're crazy. If Bowen keeps locking Marion down like he did today he will get as many minutes as Matrix.But I don't see him getting as many minutes as the series goes on unless Joe Johnson gets back soon.
I never said I had faith in him all season long. But I do have faith in him against one of the worst defensive teams who's gameplan is to force the Spurs to hit shots.You are the only I know that makes the simultaneous claim that Barry is a choking heartless while saying you had faith in him all season long...and you call me out for riding both sides?
The best shooter on the team was shoot well when wide open.
Interesting, Brodels.
But you realize that he didn't guard their wingman - he guarded their 4 - Marion.
And Marion will be playing, so Bowen will likely get a fair share of minutes.
I said that his performance in the playoffs has almost always been worse than his performance in regular seasons. That's all I said. And it's true. It's not difficult to watch some tape and look at numbers.
He's underperformed virtually every year in the playoffs. Fact.Shouldn't you apologize for saying a player has always underperformed in the playoffs, when in fact he hasn't...like his first playoffs...
You blamed it on him playing for crappy teams. But he's been pretty horrible in the playoffs this time around until today. Then you blamed it on Pop. If Barry disappears again, I'm curious to see if you'll return to the Pop excuse or if you'll make something else up.
I'm glad he played well. I think he's a good player, but I still stand by the fact that his performance declines in the playoffs. Are there exceptions? Sure, but there are very few. Poor playoff showings have been the trend with Brent. I showed you stats. All you did is try to justify it by saying that Barry played on sucky teams and that Pop sucks.
I never said it. I said that Kerr was a proven playoff performer. I didn't say that he never struggled. When he played for the Spurs, he was most certainly a proven playoff performer.Shouldn't you also apologize for saying Steve Kerr never struggled in the playffs and was a proven commodity...when in fact he once shot 50% in the regular season from 3 and didn't make a ing 3 in the playoffs that year?
I never alluded to anything. All I said was that he was a proven performer. You're just making up all of the other stuff. Kerr had incredibly clutch moments in the playoffs for the Spurs. Brent hadn't done that until today.Shouldn't aplogize for alluding that Kerr's numbers have gone up int he playoffs...when in face they are lower across the board in every category?
Fact.
What players are you talking about? I stated that Brent's numbers suck in the playoffs and you try to turn it into this. I'd like to know what different rules I have for different Spurs players. Please explain.IOW...shouldn't you apologize for being flat out wrong and having a clear double standard and different rules for different players...and if you aren't then disprove it here and now.
Barry's numbers are worse in the playoffs. Fact. You lose.
Except that you don't show your face and defend him when he totally sucks.
At least several Barry haters are here giving him props for his performance today.
I realize that. But as the series goes on, the Spurs simply aren't going to afford to have him on the floor if the Suns are going to play sucky defense like they did tonight. Bowen isn't going to contribute much offensively no matter what the Suns do on defense. With the tempo being quick and the points going up on the board quickly, the Spurs will be better off with Barry or Robinson a lot of the time.
He's one of my favorite players and I recongize that he did a good job against Marion. But while Allen and Melo had the ball in their hands and were asked to create, Marion doesn't get isolated very much. He gets offensive rebounds, slashes, and cleans up messes. He's not going to get a lot of isolations in the series, so I don't think that covering him with an all-NBA defender is a necessity. Bowen is most useful when he's defending players that have the ball in their hands often. Marion is a great player, but he's not going to have the ball in his hands a lot. He's going to finish and clean up.
If Joe Johnson returns, Bowen will become more important. I'd also like to see Bruce get some time against Nash. I think he might be long enough to make it more difficult for Steve to pull up and hit that mid-range jumper.
We'll see what happens. I'm not underappreciating Bowen, but I still maintain that he won't be as useful as he usually is.
True.
A lot of us could have pulled a Whottt and gone on a 52 hour hiatus after this game. Luckily, most of us have courage and aren't scared and will show up when the chips are down.
Whottt proved he doesn't. Billion Barry is a work in progress, at least.
I love being wrong about Brent Barry.
I love it when Brent Barry shuts me up and makes me look bad.
I love it when Brent Barry is TAKING threes and bagging them.
HE COULD DO THAT EVERY GAME IF HE SUSTAINED THE AGRESSIVENESS!!!!!
I thought the same thing coming into this series. The game tapes I watched of the Spurs vs. Suns games earlier in the year, Bowen was a huge liability on offense. That was another reason why I thought Barry was going to have a big outing.
That said, if he can hold Marion to three points again on Tuesday, they might as well prepare the 2006 DPOY trophy with Bowen's name on it.
If Bowen can just knock down his open shots they would be alright.
Exactly.
Billion Barry is worthwhile as long as there are less than stellar defensive units like Phoenix, Dallas, and Sacto making the playoffs every season.
I think he's going to be back by Game 3. But either way, Bowen always splits time between guarding JJohnson/QRich and Marion when they play the Suns (and always sees a little time on Nash). So I think that he'll have plenty to do in this series. Barry was hot today -- that's why Bowen saw less minutes; it's not going to happen every game. Bowen still needs to hover around the 30 mpg mark in this series.If Joe Johnson returns, Bowen will become more important.
bowen NEEDS TO HIT HIS WIDE OPEN THREES!!!
God it was killing me how wide open he was today and bricking it.
I'm not worried about that. He'll make that shot more than not. I'm worried about him doing absolutely anything else with ball on the offensive end.
I have give him credit for that drive and spin move today though. That was quality.
I'm off to bed. But I'm sure this thread won't die easily, so I'll check back tomorrow.
Bowen's job is not complex (note: that doesn't mean it's easy) ... run the floor, hit corner 3's, play stellar D. He doesn't need any in between game. If he can score 6-9 points and shut guys down, that's it.He'll make that shot more than not. I'm worried about him doing absolutely anything else with ball on the offensive end.
I agree. I'm less worried about him not scoring. I'm more worried about him trying to score by doing things other than shooting open threes. He's improved, but he still gets into lots of trouble when he puts the ball on the floor. It's scary sometimes.
That having been said, this is the perfect series to give a better offensive player more minutes. I truly believe that his defensive ability isn't going to make a huge difference in the series because Marion and Johnson and Jackson just don't have the ball in their hands very much. And Bowen excels as an on-the-ball defender against guys getting lots of touches.
He'll be fine in this series. But in this one series, I wouldn't cry if he got a little less time or he spend some additional time defending Nash. We'll see what happens. I like Bowen a lot. And I know he'll contribute somehow.
I'm really off to bed now.
The Spurs need to have the ability to get defensive stops. The Spurs did score a load today, but that was due in no small part to Phoenix coming down and jacking up shots so damn early in the shotclock.
I second that.
Bowen still needs to get 30-32mpg against Phoenix, despite his liabilities offensively.
I could see how that could maybe dip a little if Devin Brown was active, because he would be able to play good solid defense on Richardson, Johnson, Jackson and perhaps Marion, but he isn't available right now so Bowen is a huge neccessity.
Hurray for Barry! Please prove me wrong again on tuesday!!!!
He's played in exactly 3 playoff series prior to this year with the Spurs...
And you said he was choker because his regular season numbers were better than his playoff totals...
#1. It was false claim, his 3 point shooting PCT is much higher in the playoffs.
Using the justification you used....Kerr is a choker too because his playoff totals are lower in every category.
It was a weak ing ass argument..especially since the teams he lost too were the Jazz and us...
He made it to an elimination game against the Jazz..we never have...he made it to one against us...no other team but the Lakers has done that.
And he had Bowen on him when he played us...and Bowen kicked his ass in that series..he gave him as physical of beating as I have ever seen a guard give another player. He put a gash in his forhead, he elbowed him in the throat at which point the teams nearly got into a fight...and yet his best game was the elimimation game.
He's made the playoffs 3 times, in his career...got take a look at what Kerr did in the playoffs with Cleveland...and he's only underperformed in the stats you elect to pay attention to...Kerr OTOH has underperformed in every category except FT shooting...He's underperformed virtually every year in the playoffs. Fact.
You got a double standard. Why don't you look at what Kerr did before he played with ing Michael Jordan. And then take a look at what he did with us...
You weak argument would lead you to conclude that Kerr was choker too...unless you change your standard, which you do...
You blamed it on him playing for crappy teams. But he's been pretty horrible in the playoffs this time around until today. Then you blamed it on Pop. If Barry disappears again, I'm curious to see if you'll return to the Pop excuse or if you'll make something else up.
Guess what? The Clippers were a crappy team...and the best player on the Sonics when he was there was an aged Gary Payton. And his 3 PT PCT was better in the playoffs than it was in the regular season...you ignore the stats you don't want to use and you focus on the ones you do.
In one season it didn't, it was substantially better...and his shooting 3 shooting PCT is better...as it stands right now, the guy has never shot under 40% from 3 in the playoffs, including when being guarded by Bruce Bowen...how the can you call that choking?I'm glad he played well. I think he's a good player, but I still stand by the fact that his performance declines in the playoffs.
He did play for ty teams...exactly how far did you expect the Clippers to go in the playoffs? Them just making the PO was a historical accomplishment for the Clippers...Elton Brande hasn't been able to do it.Are there exceptions? Sure, but there are very few. Poor playoff showings have been the trend with Brent. I showed you stats. All you did is try to justify it by saying that Barry played on sucky teams and that Pop sucks.
Not using your criteria he wasn't...using your criteria he was about the worst choker of all time...but then again...you change your standard.I never said it. I said that Kerr was a proven playoff performer. I didn't say that he never struggled. When he played for the Spurs, he was most certainly a proven playoff performer.
I never alluded to anything. All I said was that he was a proven performer. You're just making up all of the other stuff. Kerr had incredibly clutch moments in the playoffs for the Spurs. Brent hadn't done that until today.
Fact.
The fact is that Kerr didn't do for us until his last season here, so no..he didn't do anything. He was proven with Michael Jordan(get in line) and with no one else. And if you can't see the difference between teams like the Bulls and the Clippers...screw it...never mind.
You hold Barry and Kerr to a different standard...and you seem to think Barry should have gotten the ing Clippers to the NBA le..Pop didn't let him do anything until that season...and he didn't let him do it enough that season...
What players are you talking about? I stated that Brent's numbers suck in the playoffs and you try to turn it into this. I'd like to know what different rules I have for different Spurs players. Please explain.
Barry's numbers are worse in the playoffs. Fact. You lose.
You have you huge gaps in your logic and I don't give a damn how eloquent you are when you say it...your argument is still weak.
You said Barry was a choker because his regular season totals are lower than the his post season...
Kerr's are lower in every category but one...and you don't hold him to the same standard...you seem to think that playing with Micheal Jordan is a skill Barry should have...it's not a skill.
Last edited by whottt; 05-22-2005 at 09:48 PM.
All I have to say is ...
If the Spurs win the Championship, then Brent Barry better thank Whottt at the River Parade.
he prob has his "ways" of thanking him im sure.then Brent Barry better thank Whottt at the River Parade
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