Offensive Thoughts: Tiago Splitter - Feb. 8, 2012

[jjktkk]

That's all I care about JJ but I just don't see a way around Tiago/Tim in the playoffs barring a trade because Blair or Bonner won't cut it.

Barring a miracle trade at the dealine, we're stuck with the Blair/Bonner combo unfortunately.

[Obstructed_View]

you mean....like last year....

the team is winning...Pop has 4 rings....Pop is bringing him along slowly....Spurs have the best offense...Spurs are this....

Wait til the playoffs..his minutes will increase....

My name is Sctikkkk and my name is dumpster....

we like watching the same movies over and over but we always expect a different ending....somehow...the movies always end the exact same way every single time....

but NEXT season...we will really hold Pop accountable....

I'll tell you the same thing I tell Chump, because you're becoming just like him: We know how you feel, we might even agree with part of it, but it's time to let it go and move on.

[Obstructed_View]

Really encouraging analysis on Splitter.

I can't see why anyone wants Kaman when Splitter is playing well.

I think they want Kaman to take minutes from Bonner and Blair, particularly minutes where they might be victimized by bigger, more skilled players.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll tell you the same thing I tell Chump, because you're becoming just like him: We know how you feel, we might even agree with part of it, but it's time to let it go and move on.

When did you tell me that?

I was apparently too busy experting the minor leagues to notice.

[jjktkk]

When did you tell me that?

I was apparently too busy experting the minor leagues to notice.

[angelbelow]

Thanks again, I mentioned in the Duncan thread that I would like to see a Splitter off. thoughts but it looks like you were a few steps ahead and already prepared one

- Splitter has absolutely blown me away with his offensive display. When we signed him to a contract last season, I thought we were getting another savvy big men who can play defense, can use his size, and do the little things like take charges or alter shots. I had absolutely no expectations for him to become such a beast in the post.

Some more food for thought:
On the season, Splitter is involved with 3 of the top 5 player combinations when it comes to +/-. (Parker with 4, Green with 4, Bonner with 2, TD with 1) This definitely supports the data that Splitter is allowing our offense to flow better.

Hes improving at an incredible rate. A few weeks ago I compared his rookie season and sop re season Per36 statistics and they were almost identical. Currently just about every category has improved. Timvp pointed out that hes average around 21 pp40mins but his usage from last season has only increased 1.6%. Overall his usage rate is still under 20% which is just a testament to efficiency on offense. His Ast% has improved from 5.3 to 9.7% as well.

Speaking of advanced stats, his win shares per 48 minutes is the highest on the team (beside Manu, but hes been hurt.) And his per is the 4th highest behind the big 3. I think we have a special player on our hands that has shattered all my expectations.. all I can say is that he needs to see a steady increase of minutes asap.

[Obstructed_View]

When did you tell me that?

I was apparently too busy experting the minor leagues to notice.

Fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; maybe I've never told you: Your schtick gets old.

"experting"?

[ChumpDumper]

Fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; maybe I've never told you: Your schtick gets old.

So does everyone's over time tbh

"experting"?

See, that's new.

[Obstructed_View]

So does everyone's over time tbh

Though I wish you'd learned that about thirty thousand posts ago, better late than never.

See, that's new.

And I thank you for that. I hope we're not still using that word five years from now.

[ChumpDumper]

Though I wish you'd learned that about thirty thousand posts ago, better late than never.

I knew that long ago and I didn't say I was going to change for you. You aren't.

And I thank you for that. I hope we're not still using that word five years from now.

I'm going to use it on KBP and see how it goes.

[ginobilized]

It really looks like Pop has brought him along at a good pace to succeed. We'd all love to see him play more, and we will, I'm sure. As a coach,Pop's mindset is on steadily developing the talent to find a role within the system. This is clearly happening now with Tiago. I credit Pop as much as Tiago. Many a coach could've bungled this by being greedy for too much too soon. I'm happy to see this working out so well right now.

[Dave_ET]

I like it too, and it would be the best lineup imo as well. My guess why it won't happen, is that Pop does not think he can get anything from Blair if he benches him. So far this season, we have seen small samples of Tim and Tiago closing out games. I'm thinking we will see that going forward into the playoffs. In some ways this is similar imo to Ginoboli starting versers playing the 6th man role in seasons past. Its not who starts, but who finishes. And FWIW if the same ole, same ole, happens in this year's playoffs regarding Pop making bad personnel/coaching decisions, I'll be more than happy to grill up the crow and break out my "pop's an idiot" t-shirt.

Completely agree. Tiago has worked himself into being our #1 option on our second unit, which I much prefer compared to him starting with Tony and Tim, for two reasons:

1) Tiago gets more time to develop his game. Just because he’s scoring 20+ a game lately doesn’t mean he’s anywhere close to maximizing his offensive potential.

2) Tim and Tiago have similar games. Back-to-the-basket, pick and roll, great passing skills, etc. The strategy in the 2000s with Tim was to run the offense through him, and have good tall rebounders such as DRob Rasho Nazr and even Oberto to clean up the garbage while staying out of Tims way. Tiago doesn’t offer great rebounding (yet). And while we don’t run the offense through Tim anymore, we do run it through one of our Big 3, which still applies.

With that being said, Pop needs to FINISH with Tiago and Tim. I miss the days when our offense would keep us in the game for 3 quarters, then our defense would absolutely punish in the 4th when the opposing team is tired – that’s how you win games. Tiago offers a high percentage offense (props to timvp) to keep us in the game when the Big 3 is resting. As of late he’s shown us he can use his length to properly defend and close out games. Pop needs to let him develop those skills in crunch time situations.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, they're going to have to start parking Duncan 18 feet away from the basket if they are going to play together regularly.

[temujin]

I've seen/watched Tiago play for more than 10 years and... He just couldn't play more than 25-27mpg with two games a week here in Spain/Europe, because he's a bit of a China doll. Translate that into a 4-games-a-week schedule.

Pop is aware of the importance of Splitter right now, because he's playing at such a high level... And because an injury of one single big man would be fatal.

If only Pop had pulled him to play with Duncan last year... Now they might have developed a chemistry... Damn.

Excellent post and the real reason of Splitter's "limited" minutes.
I wonder if there ever was a game in which he played 40'.

On the positive side, Splitter was absolutely lethal in PnRs with Marcelinho Huertas.
The two of them absolutely killed the farsa's bigs in 2010 finals.
Marcelinho has a game and passing ability that reminds me of Ginobili.
We have seen some of that last year, there should be way more of it this year, with a more assertive Splitter.

[Phenomanul]

Good point.

Though, obviously, I think it's worth finding out due to the long term potential. But yeah, in the short term, more Duncan and Splitter together would hurt more than help.

to Blair's credit... he was highly effective when paired with Manu... look at advanced metrics for the season and you'll see that Blair has been more effective than Richard Jefferson, Matt Bonner, Danny Green, or even fan-favorite Kawhi Leonard. You don't 'sit and glue' that type of production to the bench, without at least trying to tap into it and ignite a resurgence with your best possible activator (i.e. Manu)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2012.html

Out of curiosity, which of the advanced metrics are you using to judge Blair in that link?

I could be reading it wrong but Blair has a higher PER than all four players I listed in my comment... and a higher Win-Share%/48 minutes than all but the Red Rocket...

I figure the second could be slightly biased if it depends of those he plays with the most (and since he's been a starter that would include Tony and Tim). But isn't the PER simply based on his production alone?

[TD 21]

Good stuff.

The numbers support what our eyes are telling us. They also raise some interesting choices for his utilization going forward.

His current success is enhanced by a significant portion of his minutes coming against opposition reserves and not having to share space in the lane with his teammates.

Moving him to a starting line-up that includes the Big 3 will impact both of those current advantages in a negative way. The second unit will certainly miss his production and his defense.

We all want to see what a Tim/Tiago tandem will look like given extended minutes, but I don't see it as a slam dunk that overall team performance improves with that change. At least in the short and medium term.

Probably not. But the long term upside of that tandem is much higher than any other on the Spurs roster or any that they could realistically acquire. That's why it makes sense to utilize it more and allow them and the rest of the starters to get used to it.

Only the Lakers have two center sized bigs who are impact players at both ends. The Spurs would have a significant advantage a lot of games, because teams would have to pick their poison, as far as which to assign their best post defender to. Pop needs to stop worrying about how Splitter would fare defending stretch fours and start thinking about how those players would have to defend him on the other end.

That move alone -- and the subsequent minute increase for Splitter, probably by 6-8 per game -- would vault this team to another level. That's why they need to find a third big that would enable them to start Splitter, while still having rim protection off the bench.

[Phenomanul]

Probably not. But the long term upside of that tandem is much higher than any other on the Spurs roster or any that they could realistically acquire. That's why it makes sense to utilize it more and allow them and the rest of the starters to get used to it.

Only the Lakers have two center sized bigs who are impact players at both ends. The Spurs would have a significant advantage a lot of games, because teams would have to pick their poison, as far as which to assign their best post defender to.

That move alone -- and the subsequent minute increase for Splitter, probably by 6-8 per game -- would vault this team to another level. That's why they need to find a third big that would enable them to start Splitter, while still having rim protection off the bench.

See right there... that's the key... I don't know if there are many capable post defenders who are out there looking for a team...

[jjktkk]

[QUOTE=Phenomanul;5634549]See right there... that's the key... I don't know if there are many capable post defenders who are out there looking for a team...[/QUOTE]

BINGO!!! if I had a prize to give, I'd mail to yea.

[therealtruth]

It really looks like Pop has brought him along at a good pace to succeed. We'd all love to see him play more, and we will, I'm sure. As a coach,Pop's mindset is on steadily developing the talent to find a role within the system. This is clearly happening now with Tiago. I credit Pop as much as Tiago. Many a coach could've bungled this by being greedy for too much too soon. I'm happy to see this working out so well right now.

Yeah I agree cause if Splitter played any more minutes he would be a scrub.

[therealtruth]

Probably not. But the long term upside of that tandem is much higher than any other on the Spurs roster or any that they could realistically acquire. That's why it makes sense to utilize it more and allow them and the rest of the starters to get used to it.

Only the Lakers have two center sized bigs who are impact players at both ends. The Spurs would have a significant advantage a lot of games, because teams would have to pick their poison, as far as which to assign their best post defender to. Pop needs to stop worrying about how Splitter would fare defending stretch fours and start thinking about how those players would have to defend him on the other end.

That move alone -- and the subsequent minute increase for Splitter, probably by 6-8 per game -- would vault this team to another level. That's why they need to find a third big that would enable them to start Splitter, while still having rim protection off the bench.

Exactly. I agree with TD and TS it would be pretty much pick your poison for the opponent frontcourt. If Splitter had been playing and starting last year he could actually have made Randolph and the Grizzlies work on the defensive end. Randolph is one of their weakest defenders but he didn't have to do anything to guard Dice/Bonner/Blair.

[Mal]

Tiago Manu duo from bench would kill every team second unit

[DPG21920]

Well, they're going to have to start parking Duncan 18 feet away from the basket if they are going to play together regularly.

I agree somewhat, but Blair starts next to Tim and has no outside game.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

For the love of God Spurs, please rebound.

[TDMVPDPOY]

why cant duncan and blair just play off for rebounds, then forcing their own ...we got splitter for that who does a better job now...

[Capt Bringdown]

I'd be curious to see what Splitter's turnover rate is when paired with Parker. Seems to me Splitter is most frequently on the court with our chuckers. Put him in there with our court general and things might be a lot different IMO.