How long does it take to get some respect?

[jochhejaam]

ok, as long as u agree

to the extent that your thinking aligns up with the entirety of the thoughts of my posts in this thread we agree.

My intent in this thread was to help Alamode with his questions, not to appease you.

[austinfan]

I don't know the history of Brazil or Argentina. But is it fair to say that Brazil has stronger african roots than Argentina? I was just curious.

Brazil has really deep African roots. The slave trade went on for centuries there, just like in the U.S., except that there was a lot more intermarrying, and African influence has filtered down into every aspect of society: music, food, religion, language. I lived for several years in Salvador, the 3rd largest city in the country, and the population is something like 70% black. I don't know what the percentage is for the entire country, but I bet it's high.

Not to take this thread off-topic, but I wonder why Brazil doesn't have a significant presence in the NBA? I guess the whole country is so soccer obsessed that it's hard to get young kids there as excited about basketball as they are about futebol.

[AI-square]

In the Nuggets series Karl ripped Ginobili.

His team got beat. What did you expect him to say? "This guy is great, I'm surprised we didn't pick him instead of James Posey and Francisco Elson in 1999..."

[hendrix]

Thank you, Athenea. Now I have ammo to throw back at my friend.

To your friend in the US goverment. Tell him the world has not seen the attack to all humankind as it is happening today thanks to the goverment lead by the new Adolf Hitler...
I made it short because this is not the political forum.
In respect to Argentina, it has/had the same racist issues that any multicultural nation (like most western european countries) has/had.
And about the Nazis, americans should know by now that most SS agents were silently added to the agency later named CIA.

[midgetonadonkey]

respect. Just give me the rings.

[caspian]

I think it's a combination of things, rather than one reason in particular:

1. This was Manu's breakout season and before now very few casual basketball fans had heard of him outside of Texas. He didn't come up through the college ranks and get lots of exposure from a young age that way like Duncan did, for example.

2. He plays for a small-market team that doesn't have big media types to hype him up. (i.e. not NY, LA, Chicago, Miami)

3. He's modest and doesn't hype himself by making controversial statements, getting into messy contract negotiations, or engaging in criminal activity.

4. He cares more about team play and winning, rather than personal numbers, so he's not trying to post 30-15 numbers on a regular basis and go for the monster dunks just in order to make the nightly highlight reels.

Call me naive, but I believe his ethnicity and national origin have relatively little to do with his lack of exposure. Americans love winners, and if Ginobili continues to shine like he did this past year, they will get on the bandwagon. Especially if he's marketed well through endorsements. The Latino population is one of the fastest-growing demographics in the country and has an increasing amount of disposable income to spend on shoes, hamburgers and cars that Manu sells. Advertisers are crazy if they don't take advantage of the opportunity he represents for them. With time and more exposure, Manu will get more acknowledgment from the general population.

Completely agree.

[Mark in Austin]

I think Sean Elliott disagrees with you, Banks91. As do I. There are plenty of players that get crazy (sometimes underserved) hype after one or two years. , this is a league built on hype.

"If he was an inner-city kid, if Manu Ginobili was from Chicago or New York, and he was bringing the game like he's bringing it now, all the players in the league would say, 'Manu is the truth.' Instead they say, 'He throws his arms, he flails.' Every series in the playoffs this year, it's been that way. Denver did not want to give him credit in the first round. Seattle, same thing. Now Detroit."
There is unabashed anti-white racism all over the league.

I sat in the room a couple years ago when Kenny Smith addressed the incoming rookie class during the NBA's training session. The room included dozens of European players. But Kenny only spoke to the black Americans, and he more or less told them that foreign players were getting their jobs because they brought new fans, and increased revenues to the teams and the league.

Here's the Washington Post column:

The backlash goes much deeper than the media. At least three players not playing in the Finals spoken to this week on condition their names not be used -- black players whose NBA jobs are being outsourced -- desperately wanted the Pistons to beat the Spurs. For no other reason than, as one of them candidly said, "We gotta put some of these guys back in their place."
It may be too late, especially after Ginobili became the first foreign player to complete a historic double -- winning a gold medal for his country and an NBA championship for his team. Ginobili led Argentina to victory in Athens and had one of the more impressive fourth quarters of a close-out game in the Finals. He scored 11 of his 23 points in the fourth, penetrating the heart of the league's most physically imposing defense in the final minutes to ice the game and the le. He made both three-point shots he attempted, including a 26-footer with 2 minutes 57 seconds left, a shot that pushed the Spurs' lead to 72-65.

At one juncture Thursday night, Ginobili began a hard dribble from the left wing and elevated a few feet from the basket in the middle of the key. By the time he reached the rim with the ball, defenders were closing in. He switched the ball in mid-air from his left hand, his shooting hand, to his right, dunking stylishly. More than 18,000 people in the arena stood and roared for several minutes afterward.

Rasheed Wallace was asked why Ginobili was so tough to guard earlier in the series. Wallace refused to give Ginobili his due, stopping just short of putting him down as a player while making it clear he did not think Ginobili was a special talent. Sean Elliott, the former NBA forward who now works as a radio and TV analyst for the Spurs, has seen this dismissive behavior before by NBA players when it comes to Ginobili. He believes it goes much further than merely professional jealousy.

"When you have a Dirk Nowitzki or Larry Bird-type players, big guys who play their positions well, there's not a lot of backlash," Elliott said. "But when you have a 6-6 white guy beating the black player at his own game, then it's a little different. Every series he's been in, guys have been slow to give him respect. It's an amazing phenomenon.

Added Elliott, "If he was an inner-city kid, if Manu Ginobili was from Chicago or New York, and he was bringing the game like he's bringing it now, all the players in the league would say, 'Manu is the truth.' Instead they say, 'He throws his arms, he flails.' Every series in the playoffs this year, it's been that way. Denver did not want to give him credit in the first round. Seattle, same thing. Now Detroit."

[slayermin]

Brazil has really deep African roots. The slave trade went on for centuries there, just like in the U.S., except that there was a lot more intermarrying, and African influence has filtered down into every aspect of society: music, food, religion, language. I lived for several years in Salvador, the 3rd largest city in the country, and the population is something like 70% black. I don't know what the percentage is for the entire country, but I bet it's high.

Not to take this thread off-topic, but I wonder why Brazil doesn't have a significant presence in the NBA? I guess the whole country is so soccer obsessed that it's hard to get young kids there as excited about basketball as they are about futebol.

Thanks for the info. The history of Brazil sounds interesting to me. I will have to do my own reading on the subject. From what I was told, it's one of the best examples of a melting pot that there is around the world.

To your friend in the US goverment. Tell him the world has not seen the attack to all humankind as it is happening today thanks to the goverment lead by the new Adolf Hitler...
I made it short because this is not the political forum.
In respect to Argentina, it has/had the same racist issues that any multicultural nation (like most western european countries) has/had.
And about the Nazis, americans should know by now that most SS agents were silently added to the agency later named CIA.

I respect my friend's opinion because he is not a Spurs Fan but respects David Robinson immensly. He is a former collegiate athlete and he happens to be african american. There must be a reason why guys like Rasheed Wallace don't give props to Manu. I'm not saying Rasheed's opinion means much but he seems to be a part of a large group of players that resent what Manu represents.

[midgetonadonkey]

I think Sheed was just pissed about Manu tearing their defense up. I don't think twice about what that er says. Why is respect such a big deal to everybody? In 10-15 years, people will look back and know how great this team really is.

[smeagol]

To your friend in the US goverment. Tell him the world has not seen the attack to all humankind as it is happening today thanks to the goverment lead by the new Adolf Hitler...
I made it short because this is not the political forum.
In respect to Argentina, it has/had the same racist issues that any multicultural nation (like most western european countries) has/had.
And about the Nazis, americans should know by now that most SS agents were silently added to the agency later named CIA.

Simma down, amigo. The guy who works in the US government seams to be ignorant of things related with Argentina.

No era necesario salir con los tapones de punta.

[slayermin]

Simma down, amigo. The guy who works in the US government seams to be ignorant of things related with Argentina.

No era necesario salir con los tapones de punta.

There are tons of jobs in the government. I didn't add that to make it seem like everyone in the US feels that way.

Sorry I listed that tidbit. I probably shouldn't have, in hindsight.

Should I have not even mentioned this racism thing at all? It was just curious to me.

[spurster]

Need years for respect?

Counterexamples: Look at the hype (mostly well-deserved IMHO) for Amare, Wade, Arenas, LeBron, and Carmelo. None of them have exactly had a lot of playoff success.

[Banks91]

Ok , let me tell yall how i see it.

Let us take manu and his regular season, it was ok, the numbers didnt make u say woaw, not his rebounds, not his assists, not any part at all.
Second , he is playin with an annual league mvp candidate in duncan

Lets take the playoffs. First off, his playoff numbers are about 20 a game, which if u think about it, are not numbers that u go crazy over. Second, yet again, he is playin with duncan, who gets most of the attention, then u add his finals numbers, which are also around 20. So basically statistically, his numbers dont make u say woaw. Third, he didnt win finals mvp, which can be an argument all of its own,but one i wont go into

these other people who u say get undeserved hype after a season or 2, they most likely have stats that make u say woaw, or they got some serious attention from their opponents and still could not get stopped (example wade against detroit)

basically if i was a person who didnt watch basketball this year and i was to look at manu, i wouldnt see anything special in him, and alot of people look at it like that

[smeagol]

There are tons of jobs in the government. I didn't add that to make it seem like everyone in the US feels that way.

Sorry I listed that tidbit. I probably shouldn't have, in hindsight.

Should I have not even mentioned this racism thing at all? It was just curious to me.

No biggie. People who work in the government are not required to know about Argentina. I have no clue what's going on in many countries.

Not sure why he thought we were racists. I don't think we are, although lately in the press there have been some incidents reported regarding racism in soccer.

[Banks91]

ok , let me argue against spurster now

[Banks91]

lets see, amare, any respect that guy gets is well deserved
carmelo, if u have noticed, has lost a lot of respect and admiration from first season to right now, arenas im not gonna talk about cuz theres no point in that
wade, after this postseason, statistically and performance deserves any respect he gets

[smeagol]

basically if i was a person who didnt watch basketball this year and i was to look at manu, i wouldnt see anything special in him, and alot of people look at it like that

If you are a guy who watches basketball through "ppg glasses", then you probably would find Manu to be a good player, but not a superstar.

Luckily, there are some people that don't.

Are you TPark trying to through us off with your typos?

[Banks91]

personally, duncan wouldnt say anything or gripe, but im pretty sure most people would if ginobili was seen in the same group as he is

i can tell u i would, considering wat ive done and the work ive put in

[Banks91]

are u gonna actually argue with me that people dont look at ppg

with a guy like duncan it really doesnt matter if he averages low 20s or high 20s
cuz he backs up with like 14-15 boards and 3 blocks

but for a guard, if he isnt puttin up serious numbers,and no big time or assists or rebounds wat do u judge him by

[Banks91]

who ever this t park guy is, if he sees things the way i see them, then he is one guy that knows wat he is talkin about lol

[Banks91]

either way im done with thread, im movin on to other ones, latez yall

[smeagol]

are u gonna actually argue with me that people dont look at ppg

with a guy like duncan it really doesnt matter if he averages low 20s or high 20s
cuz he backs up with like 14-15 boards and 3 blocks

but for a guard, if he isnt puttin up serious numbers,and no big time or assists or rebounds wat do u judge him by

No, I wont argue with you. It is really difficult to follow your train of thought.