OT: Why do most rank Olajuwon above Duncan in top 10 lists?

[Michael Jordan.]

Was worse than any Hakeem team that made the finals, that's for sure. And it's probably in the same territory as Hakeem's worst teams overall, yes

False. That 02-03 Spurs team had a better defensive rating, and allowed less points a game than the 93-94 Rockets. They were simply better on defense, and Hakeem more than doubled the second option in scoring for the season and the playoffs.

[ambchang]

False. That 02-03 Spurs team had a better defensive rating, and allowed less points a game than the 93-94 Rockets. They were simply better on defense, and Hakeem more than doubled the second option in scoring for the season and the playoffs.

Different era. The Spurs that year was certainly one of the best defensive teams in the history of the game, but they have to be viewed relative to the same era.

For example, Duncan had a Drtg of 94 that year, while Hakeem had 95 and 96 for the two championship years. That was not because Duncan was a better defensive player, but because they played in different eras.

Finally, Duncan was the system that year, Hakeem had a lot of 3-pt shooters.

[Michael Jordan.]

Different era. The Spurs that year was certainly one of the best defensive teams in the history of the game, but they have to be viewed relative to the same era.

For example, Duncan had a Drtg of 94 that year, while Hakeem had 95 and 96 for the two championship years. That was not because Duncan was a better defensive player, but because they played in different eras.

Finally, Duncan was the system that year, Hakeem had a lot of 3-pt shooters.

Whose stats went down considerably in the playoffs.

[PlayNando]

Just curious tbh

Because most Americans are stupid.

[Leetonidas]

Huh? Lakers?

Yeah just a continuing train of thought from my previous post. I mean they had Magic and Kareem, how did they miss the 86 Finals? Was there a key injury?

[Leetonidas]

Different era. The Spurs that year was certainly one of the best defensive teams in the history of the game, but they have to be viewed relative to the same era.

For example, Duncan had a Drtg of 94 that year, while Hakeem had 95 and 96 for the two championship years. That was not because Duncan was a better defensive player, but because they played in different eras.

Finally, Duncan was the system that year, Hakeem had a lot of 3-pt shooters.

I don't know the exact stats off the top of my head but imo the 2004 Spurs were the best defensive team of the last decade that we had, don't they hold the all-time record for lowest OPPG in a season?

[Leetonidas]

Wait, hold on. Are you saying Prime Parker and Prime Ginobli, Prime Bowen, were all worse than a washed up Robinson?

Barkley was in rapid Decline.

Drexler was with Houston for about 2 seasons, and on the downside of Hakeem's prime. Pippen, was a cancer and destroyed that team. Hakeem had Sampson for about 2 seasons before he broke down?

tbh Robinson in 1999 was still a defensive monster and one of the main reasons the Spurs dominated defensively in the 99 playoffs. He was still a defensive anchor in 2003 even when he was old as and missing games because of his back. I'd take 2003 Robinson in the middle over anyone on SA not named Tim Duncan right now imo

[spurraider21]

tbh Robinson in 1999 was still a defensive monster and one of the main reasons the Spurs dominated defensively in the 99 playoffs. He was still a defensive anchor in 2003 even when he was old as and missing games because of his back. I'd take 2003 Robinson in the middle over anyone on SA not named Tim Duncan right now imo

2012-2013 TP > 2003 Robinson dude... 05-11 Manu > 03 robinson as well

[Leetonidas]

If we're talking about only 2003 David Robinson then I definitely agree with you. I'm just saying he was still a force on defense even when he was old and crippled

[spurraider21]

If we're talking about only 2003 David Robinson then I definitely agree with you. I'm just saying he was still a force on defense even when he was old and crippled

yeah, I was referencing the 2003 championship team specifically

[Prime Time]

Because 2>4.

Rings count unless a spurs player comes out on top.

/thread

[vander]

cause that baseline fade-away was just gorgeous

as much as I hated Malone and Olajuwon, those fade-aways were a large part why I grew to love basketball so much

[ambchang]

Whose stats went down considerably in the playoffs.

Not sure where that is coming from.

In 1994:
Maxwell: 13.6ppg, 1.6 3PM on 29.8% in regular season vs. 13.8 ppg, 2 3PM on 32.6% in the playoffs
Smith: 11.5, 1.1 3PM on 40.5% vs. 10.8, 1.5 on 44.7%
Horry: 9.9, 0.5 on 32.4% vs. 11.7, 1.5 on 38.2%
Elie: 9.3, 0.8 on 33.5% vs. 5.8, 0.4 on 31.3%
Cassell: 6.7, 0.4 on 29.5% vs. 9.4, 0.8 on 37.8%

In 1995:
Drexler: 21.4, 1.7 on 35.7% vs 20.5, 1.4 on 30.3%
Smith: 10.4, 1.8 on 42.9% 10.8, 2.1 on 44.2%
Horry: 10.2, 1.3 on 37.9% vs. 13.1, 2 on 40%
Cassell: 9.5, 0.9 on 33% vs. 11, 1.1 on 40%
Ellie: 8.8, 1 on 39.8% vs. 9.1, 1.3 on 43.1%

If anything, their stats went up in the playoffs, and that is, of course, in no small part due to Hakeem's dominating performance causing the defense to collapse.

[Michael Jordan.]

Not sure where that is coming from.

In 1994:
Maxwell: 13.6ppg, 1.6 3PM on 29.8% in regular season vs. 13.8 ppg, 2 3PM on 32.6% in the playoffs
Smith: 11.5, 1.1 3PM on 40.5% vs. 10.8, 1.5 on 44.7%
Horry: 9.9, 0.5 on 32.4% vs. 11.7, 1.5 on 38.2%
Elie: 9.3, 0.8 on 33.5% vs. 5.8, 0.4 on 31.3%
Cassell: 6.7, 0.4 on 29.5% vs. 9.4, 0.8 on 37.8%

In 1995:
Drexler: 21.4, 1.7 on 35.7% vs 20.5, 1.4 on 30.3%
Smith: 10.4, 1.8 on 42.9% 10.8, 2.1 on 44.2%
Horry: 10.2, 1.3 on 37.9% vs. 13.1, 2 on 40%
Cassell: 9.5, 0.9 on 33% vs. 11, 1.1 on 40%
Ellie: 8.8, 1 on 39.8% vs. 9.1, 1.3 on 43.1%

If anything, their stats went up in the playoffs, and that is, of course, in no small part due to Hakeem's dominating performance causing the defense to collapse.

Of the top 4 scorers in the regular season (93-94), Thorpe's scorng dropped from 14.0 to 11.3. Maxwell dropped from 38% shooting to 37%. Smith's FG percentage actually dropped from 48% to 45% overall. But like you said their three point shooting went up. Those numbers are crazy though.
PELTON'S RATING: 8.9

Position: C | Age: 31

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP - 23 | PPG - 28.9 | RPG - 11.0 | APG - 4.3 | BPG - 4.0 | SPG - 1.7 | TS% - 56.8 | USG - 31.4

The year before he was reunited with college teammate Clyde Drexler, Olajuwon dragged a Rockets team without a second star to the first of back-to-back championships. Olajuwon averaged more than twice as many points in the playoffs as Houston's second-leading scorer (Vernon Maxwell, 13.8 points per game), the highest such ratio ever for a championship team. But the Rockets' fleet of outside shooters ideally suited Olajuwon's game, and he dominated the defensive end, becoming the only player to average 4.0 blocks per game in a Finals run.


Houston needed Olajuwon to be great every night, and he

scored at least 20 points in 22 of 23 playoff games, including a pair of 40-point efforts. In the NBA Finals, Olajuwon outdueled Patrick Ewing of the New York Knicks, averaging 26.1 points while holding Ewing to 18.9 PPG on 36.3 percent shooting in the Rockets' seven-game triumph.

[ambchang]

No doubt Hakeem was phenomenal in those playoffs. No need to convince me on it as I saw it with my own eyes. All I am saying is that Hakeem required a very specific type of team to be successful, that is to say a high volume 3 pt shooing team that gets the green light.

Duncan was as phenomenal in the 2003 playoffs though. Teams figured out how to guard inside out teams after dealing with the rockets and shaq led lakers, so the spurs system put a twist to the formula with heavier emphasis on penetration.

[spurraider21]

It's natural for role players' scoring to dip during the playoffs, since the lead dogs tend to "take over" more. But the fact that their 3 point % went up (relevant since Amb specifically referenced their outside shooting) sort of goes against MJ's point. That said, I still believe the Spurs '03 roster (minus Duncan of course) wasn't as good as the Rockets rosters. The Spurs team defense was great, but they were offensively inept.

[HarlemHeat37]

Olajuwon is one of the most overrated players of the internet era, tbh..his reputation has been severely inflated by forums/internet compared to his reputation while actually active, tbh..only Kobe's reputation has been more inflated by the internet..

He's still a top 10 player of all-time, but he benefits greatly from aesthetics and his 1-2 year peak, along with playing in the watered down 90s..

I also disagree with the notion that most people have him ranked ahead of Duncan..they don't, tbh..most people have Duncan ranked ahead of Olajuwon..

[Double-Up]

Olajuwon is one of the most overrated players of the internet era, tbh..his reputation has been severely inflated by forums/internet compared to his reputation while actually active, tbh..only Kobe's reputation has been more inflated by the internet..

He's still a top 10 player of all-time, but he benefits greatly from aesthetics and his 1-2 year peak, along with playing in the watered down 90s..

I also disagree with the notion that most people have him ranked ahead of Duncan..they don't, tbh..most people have Duncan ranked ahead of Olajuwon..

Yea ok,

[Michael Jordan.]

It's still funny though. Some people still cannot distinguish between better player and better career.

[snickles]

pre-madonna

seriously?

[spurraider21]

It's still funny though. Some people still cannot distinguish between better player and better career.

I think the question you gotta ask yourself is: If you wanted to build a team that would win as many championships as possible, and you could have either player from their rookie year all the way until their final year, which would you take. Which player would give you more/better opportunities to win it all.

[Michael Jordan.]

I think the question you gotta ask yourself is: If you wanted to build a team that would win as many championships as possible, and you could have either player from their rookie year all the way until their final year, which would you take. Which player would give you more/better opportunities to win it all.

Fair question.

[jdiggy0424]

seriously?

Maybe the term "pre-madonna" is too harsh of a term, however in his early years, since getting picked #1 over the likes of Jordan, Barkley, and Stockton, he always thought he was en led to every call. As we all know, defenses were much more aggressive towards individual players, and with his style of play, it wasnt uncommon for defenses to throw two, maybe even 3 defenders on it at times. So yes, maybe in todays NBA would he have gotten every call, but back then? He did a little too much complaining and ing to the refs.

He was also a player of motivation. Put him in an ideal situation (aka Jordan leaving the league, his rival Robinson getting a ring, etc) and he flourishes. Put him in a situation where he feels like he can't contend? Sure he'll give you averages of 20 and 10, but he'll for the most part be in cruise control.

Thats what separates Duncan from Olajuwon, that sustained compe ive fire that Duncan possesses that Olajuwon lacks. It's no wonder whose had (still having) the better career.

[Michael Jordan.]

Maybe the term "pre-madonna" is too harsh of a term, however in his early years, since getting picked #1 over the likes of Jordan, Barkley, and Stockton, he always thought he was en led to every call. As we all know, defenses were much more aggressive towards individual players, and with his style of play, it wasnt uncommon for defenses to throw two, maybe even 3 defenders on it at times. So yes, maybe in todays NBA would he have gotten every call, but back then? He did a little too much complaining and ing to the refs.

He was also a player of motivation. Put him in an ideal situation (aka Jordan leaving the league, his rival Robinson getting a ring, etc) and he flourishes. Put him in a situation where he feels like he can't contend? Sure he'll give you averages of 20 and 10, but he'll for the most part be in cruise control.

Thats what separates Duncan from Olajuwon, that sustained compe ive fire that Duncan possesses that Olajuwon lacks. It's no wonder whose had (still having) the better career.

So Dream had all star help most of his career?

[Michael Jordan.]

He also got to the finals before MJ. Tbh. So that motivation excuse is bull .