Snowden Just Needs to Stop Now....

[Nbadan]

It was torture, I give that dude a lot of credit. But also look at the years he's gonna be doing. Crazy. They want Snowden's head on a stick. Why wouldn't he flee? He saw what they did to Manning, what they did to Aaron Swartz..all the bogus charges they were putting on him to shut him up which resulted in his committing suicide (or so we are told), all the other whistle blowers and Occupy protesters they have gone after.

True...but you fight the enemy from within..if enough people did that things would change....but too many people buy the pundit lies and propaganda...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

blah, blah, blah....this administration is 10,000 times more transparent than the last administration...to expect government to be completely transparent is either naive, for which I have no time, or incompetent, for which I have no patience...

No, they are 46,012 times less transparent.

Believing made up bull numbers is just stupid.

What government programs are more transparent now?

He spies on US citizens. Had to be harangued for over a year to release anything regarding the court order that permitted it. He has gone after whistleblowers with a vengeance and went so far as to sick the DoJ on the AP because of it. He uses his bureaucracy as a tool to push his political agenda like with the IRS and then he takes the opposite approach of a great Dem POTUS in Truman and just shirks responsibility for anything.

Obama tries to control the narrative. He is adversarial with most of the press but has select columnists almost all of them Dems that he gives access to.

People like to compare him to Bush but in my eyes he is more like Nixon.

[Nbadan]

He uses his bureaucracy as a tool to push his political agenda like with the IRS and then he takes the opposite approach of a great Dem POTUS in Truman and just shirks responsibility for anything.

I never took you for a wing-nut FL, but there you are....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I never took you for a wing-nut FL, but there you are....

Hey if so called 'liberals' are calling me a right winger and so called 'conservatives' are calling me communists then I think I have to be doing something right.

You giving up on arguing on merit two posts gone now has been noted.

Instead you have resorted to just leaving it all on digs of 'stupid,' 'incompetent,' and 'wing nut.' Now don't get me wrong, often such labels are justified but you should at least attempt to justify them or you just seem petulant.

As for the blanket dismissal, the IRS patsy was hung out to dry and left in disgrace because rules were broken. Its do ented when the head was notified of the activities just as it was noted that he omitted such information not once but twice in congressional hearings regarding 501(c)(4) regulations.

You just granted the rest of it. I say he is lucky that Hillary took one for the team for him and added her name to Obama's patsies.

[m>s]

snowden should be pardoned but that wouldn't stop the CIA, FBI, military industrial complex, NSA, etc from assassinating him if he tried to come back

[Nbadan]

Hey if so called 'liberals' are calling me a right winger and so called 'conservatives' are calling me communists then I think I have to be doing something right.

You giving up on arguing on merit two posts gone now has been noted.

Instead you have resorted to just leaving it all on digs of 'stupid,' 'incompetent,' and 'wing nut.' Now don't get me wrong, often such labels are justified but you should at least attempt to justify them or you just seem petulant.

As for the blanket dismissal, the IRS patsy was hung out to dry and left in disgrace because rules were broken. Its do ented when the head was notified of the activities just as it was noted that he omitted such information not once but twice in congressional hearings regarding 501(c)(4) regulations.

You just granted the rest of it. I say he is lucky that Hillary took one for the team for him and added her name to Obama's patsies.

Nah your an idiot, because your an idiot...Lois Lerner was a bush appointee..she had no reason to cover up for Obama...The IRS was actually doing its job...when a group applies for tax exempt status, its application is suppose to be scrutinized. None of those tea party groups were denied 501(c)4, although they should have, tea party groups are NOT social welfare organizations, they engage in POLITICAL work. The real scandal is that there are political activist groups filing for and getting tax exempt status.

[Nbadan]

snowden should be pardoned but that wouldn't stop the CIA, FBI, military industrial complex, NSA, etc from assassinating him if he tried to come back

What's to stop them now?

[m>s]

What's to stop them now?

big daddy Putin will pimp slap the piss out of any operatives we try to send into russia. it hasn't happened yet because it probably never will. the US isn't untouchable, we'll find that out soon if we decide to hit Iran. it'll be the end of this current government at the very least.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nah your an idiot, because your an idiot...Lois Lerner was a bush appointee..she had no reason to cover up for Obama...The IRS was actually doing its job...when a group applies for tax exempt status, its application is suppose to be scrutinized. None of those tea party groups were denied 501(c)4, although they should have, tea party groups are NOT social welfare organizations, they engage in POLITICAL work. The real scandal is that there are political activist groups filing for and getting tax exempt status.

Steve Miller was and cover him he did. He was the one speaking at the congressional hearings in question.

And again, as has been stated repeatedly, rules were broken. The question is whether or not the mistakes were politically motivated.

[Nbadan]

Steve miller was the band...Steven Miller was the one giving congressional testimony...somehow I don't think any "aggrieved" 501(c)4 applicants are going to come forward.

It serves the right wing's interest to brand the IRS as a demon which is the puppet of the Dems.

Overlooked in all of this false hysteria is the fact that there are probably few, if any, Tea Party organizations or other politically conservative organizations which serve legitimate social welfare purposes and which were harassed or put on hold by the IRS in their quest for 501(c)4 recognition.

[Clipper Nation]

blah, blah, blah....this administration is 10,000 times more transparent than the last administration...

No they're not, they lie and backtrack just as much as any other administration, it's just all okay to you because of the "(D)" next to Obama's name....

[Nbadan]

No they're not, they lie and backtrack just as much as any other administration, it's just all okay to you because of the "(D)" next to Obama's name....

Prove it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Steve miller was the band...Steven Miller was the one giving congressional testimony...somehow I don't think any "aggrieved" 501(c)4 applicants are going to come forward.

It serves the right wing's interest to brand the IRS as a demon which is the puppet of the Dems.

Overlooked in all of this false hysteria is the fact that there are probably few, if any, Tea Party organizations or other politically conservative organizations which serve legitimate social welfare purposes and which were harassed or put on hold by the IRS in their quest for 501(c)4 recognition.

Thanks for posting your google information and the party line. Steve Miller did cover for Obama in congressional hearings where he did omit information regarding this particular oversight when asked about it directly. We know when he knew and we know what he told Congress. You have granted all of that.

You were the one talking about where was the oversight in all of this.

Now you are trying to make it seem like no one was harmed, but my google search came up with 5 groups that came forward and said they had been denied for periods over 3 years. It was so hard to find.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/te...s-this-is-bad/

And lets look at what the IRS says meets the requirements rather than just look to your self serving cherry picked phrase of 'social welfare' which you add a tagline of 'legitimate:'

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-P...%28c%29%284%29

Homeowners associations and volunteer fire companies may be recognized as exempt as social welfare organizations if they meet the requirements for exemption. Organizations that engage in substantial lobbying activities sometimes also are classified as social welfare organizations.

It is what it is. Is there any evidence of dem superPACs and PACs having similar scrutiny? Were there or were there not rules broken regarding the review of these groups applications?

To me it seems pretty simple. Obama led the charge in getting his PACs and whatnot set up on the grassroots level. It's a big reason why he has been so successful. When the opposition tries and does the same he tries to gum up the works a bit. It's a classic play especially coming from a guy who got his start in Chicago where the 'rigging the bureaucracy' playbook was written.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Prove it.

Well we know that Miller left out information on his agency's actions regarding the application processes of PAC. We know that he has hammered whistleblowers to the wall and even tried to sic the DoJ on the AP.

Bush did some s my but at least when he was outed because of Abu Garib he didn't send out a patsy to take the fall. His eating all of that type is a big reason why he has a reputation of being as awful a POTUS as he does. He took responsibility for the he got outed for.

If that was Obama he would have put it on one of the JCoS or someone in the DoD because that is what he does.

[Clipper Nation]

Prove it.

It's proven just about every time this administration makes a statement, tbh

[Nbadan]

Toby Marie Walker president of the Waco Tea Party told of her group’s IRS struggles, applying for 501(c)(4) status in 2010 and not hearing back until February 2012 when the group was asked about relationships with public officials and candidates, lists of volunteers and all the news stories in which the group had been mentioned. She said the request was so onerous that if they had complied with all of the demands, the group would have needed a “U-haul truck of about 20 feet.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/te...#ixzz2jTKDun00

One tea party organization complaining because they were mildly inconvenienced to prove they were what they said they were is not a scandal...no matter how hard you make it out to be..

[Nbadan]

It is what it is. Is there any evidence of dem superPACs and PACs having similar scrutiny? Were there or were there not rules broken regarding the review of these groups applications?

Well, at least you've modified yourself to admitting that 'only rules were broken' and not law...but your still wrong...

At the hearing, outgoing acting IRS commissioner Steve Miller repeatedly objected to the use of the word “targeting.” He said the so-called “be on the lookout” (BOLO) list was an “inappropriate” organizational tool or “shortcut” that IRS staff used to find potential political cases. Miller claimed the tea party groups would have be subjected to extra scrutiny regardless of the BOLO list.

“If the targeting wasn’t targeting, if the targeting wasn’t based on philosophy, how come only conservatives got snagged?” Roskam confidently asked.

“They didn’t, sir,” Miller responded. “Organizations of all walks and all persuasions were pulled in. That’s shown by the fact that only 70 of the 300 organizations were tea party organizations, of the ones that were looked at by TIGTA (Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration).”

-snip-

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/1...t-irs-hearing/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/1...t-irs-hearing/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, at least you've modified yourself to admitting that 'only rules were broken' and not law...but your still wrong...



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/1...t-irs-hearing/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/1...t-irs-hearing/

Were those 230 others left leaning political organizations? Were rules broken regarding the 230 others? That is what I asked.

This is after the fact testimony too. You have granted so far that.

1) Obama is much more punitive on whistleblowers
2) He went after the AP using the Justice Department to go after whistle blowers.
3) His IRS broke rules which in turn inhibited the application process for his political opponents PACs
4) His political appointee omitted information he was known to have known regarding this when asked by Congress not once but twice before the issue was known to congress.

And that is what is key. You can go off arguing the minutiae to try and win a point but the argument is absed on Obama's transparency. I can give several example of how it is less. Can you give any of it being more? Certainly not regarding anything to do with the DoJ, DEA, NSA, HSA, DoS, DoT or CIA.

[boutons_deux]

GCHQ and European spy agencies worked together on mass surveillance

Edward Snowden papers unmask close technical cooperation and loose alliance between British, German, French, Spanish and Swedish spy agencies

The German, French, Spanish and Swedish intelligence services have all developed methods of mass surveillance of internet and phone traffic over the past five years in close partnership with Britain's GCHQeavesdropping agency.

The bulk monitoring is carried out through direct taps into fibre optic cables and the development of covert relationships with telecommunications companies. A loose but growing eavesdropping alliance has allowed intelligence agencies from one country to cultivate ties with corporations from another to facilitate the trawling of the web, according to GCHQ do ents leaked by the former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden.

The files also make clear that GCHQ played a leading role in advising its European counterparts how to work around national laws intended to restrict the surveillance power of intelligence agencies.

The German, French and Spanish governments have reacted angrily to reports based on National Security Agency (NSA) files leaked by Snowden since June, revealing the interception of communications by tens of millions of their citizens each month. US intelligence officials have insisted the mass monitoring was carried out by the security agencies in the countries involved and shared with the US.

The US director of national intelligence, James Clapper, suggested to Congress on Tuesday that European governments' professed outrage at the reports was at least partly hypocritical. "Some of this reminds me of the classic movie Casablanca: 'My God, there's gambling going on here,' " he said.

Sweden, which passed a law in 2008 allowing its intelligence agency to monitor cross-border email and phone communications without a court order, has been relatively muted in its response.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...llance-snowden

[SA210]

[boutons_deux]

Americans' Personal Data Shared With CIA, IRS, Others in Security Probe

Washington - U.S. agencies collected and shared the personal information of thousands of Americans in an attempt to root out untrustworthy federal workers that ended up scrutinizing people who had no direct ties to the U.S. government and simply had purchased certain books.

Federal officials gathered the information from the customer records of two men who were under criminal investigation for purportedly teaching people how to pass lie detector tests. The officials then distributed a list of 4,904 people – along with many of their Social Security numbers, addresses and professions – to nearly 30 federal agencies, including the Internal Revenue Service, the CIA, the National Security Agency and the Food and Drug Administration.

Although the polygraph-beating techniques are unproven, authorities hoped to find government employees or applicants who might have tried to use them to lie during the tests required for security clearances. Officials with multiple agencies confirmed that they’d checked the names in their databases and planned to retain the list in case any of those named take polygraphs for federal jobs or criminal investigations.

It turned out, however, that many people on the list worked outside the federal government and lived across the country. Among the people whose personal details were collected were nurses, firefighters, police officers and private attorneys, McClatchy learned. Also included: a psychologist, a cancer researcher and employees of Rite Aid, Paramount Pictures, the American Red Cross and Georgetown University.

Moreover, many of them had only bought books or DVDs from one of the men being investigated and didn’t receive the one-on-one training that investigators had suspected. In one case, a Washington lawyer was listed even though he’d never contacted the instructors. Dozens of others had wanted to pass a polygraph not for a job, but for a personal reason: The test was demanded by spouses who suspected infidelity.

The unprecedented creation of such a list and decision to disseminate it widely demonstrate the ease with which the federal government can collect and share Americans’ personal information, even when there’s no clear reason for doing so.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/20075...security-probe

[Nbadan]

His IRS broke rules which in turn inhibited the application process for his political opponents PACs

They aren't supposed to be PACs....that's the whole point...

[boutons_deux]

N.S.A. Report Outlined Goals for More Power

Officials at the National Security Agency, intent on maintaining its dominance in intelligence collection, pledged last year to push to expand its surveillance powers, according to a top-secret strategy do ent.

In a February 2012 paper laying out the four-year strategy for the N.S.A.’s signals intelligence operations, which include the agency’s eavesdropping and communications data collection around the world, agency officials set an objective to “aggressively pursue legal authorities and a policy framework mapped more fully to the information age.”
Written as an agency mission statement with broad goals, the five-page do ent said that existing American laws were not adequate to meet the needs of the N.S.A. to conduct broad surveillance in what it cited as “the golden age of Sigint,” or signals intelligence. “The interpretation and guidelines for applying our authorities, and in some cases the authorities themselves, have not kept pace with the complexity of the technology and target environments, or the operational expectations levied on N.S.A.’s mission,” the do ent concluded.

( iow, We Don't Need/Heed No Stinkin Laws. )

Using sweeping language, the paper also outlined some of the agency’s other ambitions. They included defeating the cybersecurity practices of adversaries in order to acquire the data the agency needs from “anyone, anytime, anywhere.” The agency also said it would try to decrypt or bypass codes that keep communications secret by influencing “the global commercial encryption market through commercial relationships,” human spies and intelligence partners in other countries. It also talked of the need to “revolutionize” analysis of its vast collections of data to “radically increase operational impact.”

The strategy do ent, provided by the former N.S.A. contractor Edward J. Snowden, was written at a time when the agency was at the peak of its powers and the scope of its surveillance operations was still secret. Since then, Mr. Snowden’s revelations have changed the political landscape.

Prompted by a public outcry over the N.S.A.’s domestic operations, the agency’s critics in Congress have been pushing to limit, rather than expand, its ability to routinely collect the phone and email records of millions of Americans, while foreign leaders have protested reports of virtually unlimited N.S.A. surveillance overseas, even in allied nations. Several inquiries are underway in Washington; Gen. Keith B. Alexander, the N.S.A.’s longest-serving director, has announced plans to retire; and the White House has offered proposals to disclose more information about the agency’s domestic surveillance activities.

The N.S.A. do ent, led “Sigint Strategy 2012-2016,” does not make clear what legal or policy changes the agency might seek. The N.S.A.’s powers are determined variously by Congress, executive orders and the nation’s secret intelligence court, and its operations are governed by layers of regulations. While asserting that the agency’s “culture of compliance” would not be compromised, N.S.A. officials argued that they needed more flexibility, according to the paper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us...agewanted=all&

[TDMVPDPOY]

countries that still have SOE telecommunication companys...lmao owned ur ass

[Nbadan]

Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished
Source: Washington Post

MOSCOW —

The familiar voice on the hotel room phone did not waste words.

“What time does your clock say, exactly?” he asked.

He checked the reply against his watch and described a place to meet.

“I’ll see you there,” he said.

Edward Joseph Snowden emerged at the appointed hour, alone, blending into a light crowd of locals and tourists. He ed his arm for a handshake, then turned his shoulder to indicate a path. Before long he had guided his visitor to a secure space out of public view.

During more than 14 hours of interviews, the first he has conducted in person since arriving here in June, Snowden did not part the curtains or step outside. Russia granted him temporary asylum on Aug. 1, but Snowden remains a target of surpassing interest to the intelligence services whose secrets he spilled on an epic scale.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...b8d_story.html

Time to face the music....