Better Value ?

[Kyuui-Musikq]

Chemistry and trust are intangibles that are invaluable

[SpursRock20]

Another dumb comment from someone that doesn't actually watch the games. Dallas had the number 2 bench last year. SA wasn't even a top 5 bench unit. It was common, last year, for our starters to build up a big lead only for the bench to come in and bring the opponents back into the game. Manu was a big reason why the bench unit frequently collapsed. His impact statistics were among the worst of his career.

Manu posted a net +1.8 for his On Court / Off Court numbers last season. Mediocre...especially considering Ginobili used to be a net +9 type player(at the very least...in 2011 Manu had a net +13.3).

Carter, last season, posted a net +11.4 for his On Court / Off Court numbers. MUCH better than Manu. When you also factor in that Carter played 82 games, it's a pretty easy choice. Manu needs minutes restrictions and misses dozens of games every season.

Still can't understand why Ginobili's fans refuse to acknowledge his sharp decline. It's as if they still think it's 2005.

I watched every single game last year and plan on doing the same this year. Yes, Manu was bad last year, the worst he has ever been. But after watching the preseason and the first game (I know it's a small sample size), he looks better than he did all of last year. Taking him out and switching him with Carter would simply not work. Carter can not create like Manu can and the offense would suffer terribly if he was replaced by Carter. Call me a homer for still believing in Manu, but I remember quite a few people losing faith in Duncan at about the same age that Manu is now. You'll all be back on his band wagon soon.

[SpursRock20]

Same site, except I was looking at Deff (Efficiency Difference). SA ranked sixth according to that filter. Regardless, whether you want to call them fifth or sixth, the point remains. Dallas had the better bench unit and Carter was an important part of that(which refutes that guy's point about SA becoming a middle-of-the-pack bench with Carter). The notion that Carter is some kind of cancerous black hole needs to go away.

And spurraider21 basically explained why I have an issue with Manu's contract. He was getting paid star money and giving us role player production. He was only worth about 4 million last season and making 14 million. SA's a small market team trying to stay under the lux tax...every penny counts and Manu's contract amounted to a lot of wasted dollars.

Even at 7 million, Manu is overpaid. His contemporaries(Carter and Ray Allen) are getting 3 million a year and giving their respective teams similar production that Manu is giving the Spurs.

Where did I call Carter a blackhole? Carter is simply a different player than Manu and would not fit in as seamlessly as Ginobili does on the offensive end.

[ElNono]

Same site, except I was looking at Deff (Efficiency Difference). SA ranked sixth according to that filter. Regardless, whether you want to call them fifth or sixth, the point remains. Dallas had the better bench unit and Carter was an important part of that(which refutes that guy's point about SA becoming a middle-of-the-pack bench with Carter). The notion that Carter is some kind of cancerous black hole needs to go away.

That's why I was asking, not sure if we were looking at the same thing. Top 5 bench in the NBA is pretty damn good. I don't particularly agree that Carter is a bad player or anything like that, that's why I said he's great value for Dallas. At the same time, I'm not sold he would be as good a fit for us. The Spurs use Manu as a semi-PG... Carter is a different type of player.

And spurraider21 basically explained why I have an issue with Manu's contract. He was getting paid star money and giving us role player production. He was only worth about 4 million last season and making 14 million. SA's a small market team trying to stay under the lux tax...every penny counts and Manu's contract amounted to a lot of wasted dollars.

I understand what you're saying, but that undermines your previous point that the fan shouldn't concern itself with business decisions. You can argue that Manu might not be worth a $7m salary only going by what he gives you on the court (a point that's entirely an opinion, tbh, since there's simply no measurable standard for that), or that such a salary is not worth it looking at cap implications, but from the Spurs side, hiring another guy for $3m that doesn't put people on the seats really isn't a better deal.

Even at 7 million, Manu is overpaid. His contemporaries(Carter and Ray Allen) are getting 3 million a year and giving their respective teams similar production that Manu is giving the Spurs.

Carter is a great deal. Ray Allen is 38 and he's getting $3m because that's all Miami can really pay him, and he rather chase a ring. He could probably get more money somewhere else. As I said earlier, look at Nash... he'll be 40 soon, he's cashing in on $9m this season.

[DPG21920]

Nash was a league MVP fwiw.

[ElNono]

Nash was a league MVP fwiw.

Sure. He also never helped a team to a le... but it's not like the Lakers gave him a 'thank you' contract...