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Post their playoff numbers. Also their series vs the Spurs and Kings. Then I will decide if he rode Shaq's nuts, ok.
They still pulled double coverage. Kobe was rarely if ever doubled and played no defense.Dwert and Gawful suckedI don't know what you were watching
Post their playoff numbers. Also their series vs the Spurs and Kings. Then I will decide if he rode Shaq's nuts, ok.
No, they really didn't.
He had his best FG% (how often you put the ball in the basket relative to how often you attempt to do so) during shaqs tenure
Meh, "efficiency" is a vague word that could mean different things.
I agree with those who say that defense should be a factor in any equation of overall efficiency. After all, a player who scores efficiently but also allows his opponent to score efficiently isn't very efficient in the overall balance of helping his team win.
With regard to pure offensive efficiency - it is true that big players have a natural advantage over perimeter players, as they play closer to the basket - but that advantage isn't just an arbitrary statistical artifact. That advantage is there for a reason - namely, big players really are more valuable than perimeter players - and should not be washed out with statistical manipulations.
01-02: 46.9 FG%, 25.0 3P%, 82.9 FT%, 48.9 2P%
06-07: 46.3 FG%, 34.4 3P%, 86.8 FT%, 49.7 2P%
3 peat championship years, playoffs only
Shaq 29.9ppg, 55.2%fg, 14.5reb, 3.0ast, 2.4blk, 12.2 win shares, 3.7 defensive win shares, 8.5 offensive win shares, and only 553 missed shots....
Kobe Bryant 25.3ppg, 44.7%fg, 5.7reb, 4.9ast, 1.1blk, 8.5 win shares, 2.5 defensive win shares, 5.8 offensive win shares, and a whopping 654 missed shots.
Kobe missed 101 more shots than Shaq during the 3 peat championship years
In 99-2000, Kobe missed 14 games, the Lakers went 12-4 without him.
In 2000-2001 Kobe missed 14 games, the Lakers went 11-3 without him.
In 2001-2002 Kobe missed 2 games, the Lakers went 2-0 without him.
The championship Lakers teams seemed barely affected by the absence of Kobe.
Percentage of team's points scored in the NBA Finals
Kobe
2000: 14.5% (not even including the game he missed) (W)
2001: 24.4% (W)
2002: 25.2% (W)
2004: 27.6% (L)
Shaq
2000: 36.3% (W)
2001: 32.8% (W)
2002: 34.5% (W)
2004: 32.5% (L)
2000:
Shaq 38.0ppg 2.3apg 16.7 reb 61.1% shooting
Kobe 15.6ppg 4.2 apg 4.6 reb 36.7% shooting
2001:
Shaq 33.0ppg 15.8 rpg 4.4 apg 57.3% shooting
Kobe 24.6ppg 5.8 apg 7.8 reb 41.5% shooting
2002:
Shaq 36.3ppg 12.3 rpg 3.8 apg 59.5% shooting
Kobe 26.7ppg 5.2 apg 5.8 reb 51.4% shooting
2004:
Shaq 26.6ppg 10.8 rpg 1.6 apg 63.1% shooting
Kobe 22.6ppg 4.4 apg 2.8 reb 38% shooting
2004: Kobe Bryant... 70 missed shots, 43 made shots
2004: Shaq O'Neal... 31 missed shots, 53 made shots
2002: Kobe Bryant... 34 missed shots, 36 made shots
2002: Shaq O'Neal... 34 missed shots, 50 made shots
2001: Kobe Bryant... 62 missed shots, 44 made shots
2001: Shaq O'Neal... 47 missed shots, 63 made shots
2000: Kobe Bryant... 57 missed shots, 33 made shots
2000: Shaq O'Neal... 61 missed shots, 96 made shots
Last edited by DMC; 11-24-2013 at 07:43 PM.
2001 playoffs?
2001 series vs Spurs?
2001 series vs Kings?
2002 playoffs?
2002 series vs Spurs?
2002 series vs Kings?
miss shots and made shots of Shaq and Kobe is great logic btw...
Really? The thread le is about efficiency. You equate offensive efficiency with being the better player. I showed you Shaq destroyed Kobe in offensive efficiency, and highlighted the anomaly of Kobe taking and missing more shots than Shaq, and how that cost them the ring.
I'd say a player who selfishly ball hogged and cost you a ring when your team was historically the most stacked team of all time, right after coming off his rape allegation, that's not a great player. That's a ty player, but one you and your ilk deserve.
Posted this before on a different forum, so I'm going to save myself time
Kobe's playoff stats during the 3peat
pts-reb-ast-stl-blk fgm/fga
bold indicates leader on the team
2000 WCQF
1: 23-7-5-0-0 11/22
2: 32-4-1-2-0 12/20
3: 35-3-2-2-0 13/25
4: 34-6-4-2-0 13/30
5: 17-2-6-0-3 7/16
2000 WCSF
1: 25-6-1-3-3 8/17
2: 15-4-6-2-2 6/11
3: 25-5-2-2-2 8/20
4: 23-3-5-2-0 10/20
5: 17-1-3-1-0 6/16
2000 WCF
1: 13-3-6-1-1 4/9
2: 12-2-4-1-2 2/9
3: 25-7-7-2-1 11/18
4: 18-4-7-2-3 5/15
5: 17-5-4-0-2 4/13
6: 33-2-6-4-3 12/24
7: 25-11-7-0-4 9/19
2000 Finals
1: 14-3-5-1-2 6/13
2: 2-1-4-0-1 1/3
3: DNP
4: 28-4-5-1-2 14/27
5: 8-5-3-2-0 4/20
6: 26-10-4-1-2 8/27
2001 WCQF
1: 28-6-7-0-0 9/20
2: 25-3-7-3-0 8/11
3: 22-4-9-2-0 9/23
2001 WCSF
1: 29-4-5-0-0 10/23
2: 27-9-5-1-1 9/19
3: 36-7-4-2-0 10/22
4: 48-16-3-2-1 15/29
2001 WCF
1: 45-10-3-1-1 19/35
2: 28-7-6-2-1 11/24
3: 36-9-8-1-0 14/27
4: 24-2-11-2-1 10/19
2001 Finals
1: 15-3-5-1-3 7/22
2: 31-8-6-2-2 11/23
3: 32-6-3-2-0 13/30
4: 19-10-9-1-1 6/13
5: 26-12-6-1-1 7/18
2002 WCQF
1: 34-7-3-2-3 10/28
2: 19-6-5-2-0 5/21
3: 25-4-7-2-2 9/19
2002 WCSF
1: 20-2-4-0-0 8/18
2: 26-4-6-3-0 12/25
3: 31-6-6-0-1 15/31
4: 28-7-3-1-0 10/27
5: 26-8-5-1-0 10/20
2002 WCF
1: 30-6-5-2-2 12/26
2: 22-6-2-1-1 9/21
3: 22-2-3-2-2 8/24
4: 25-4-2-2-3 12/26
5: 30-5-3-1-0 11/29
6: 31-11-5-0-0 10/20
7: 30-10-7-2-0 10/26
2002 Finals
1: 22-3-6-1-0 6/16
2: 24-8-3-2-1 9/15
3: 36-6-4-1-2 14/23
4: 25-6-8-2-0 7/16
2002 Playoffs - 2nd Half Scoring
97 Field Goals, 17 3PT Field Goals
2002 Playoffs - 4th Quarter Scoring
52 Field Goals, 12 3PT Field Goals
Kobe also led the Lakers in second half and 4th quarter scoring in the 2001 Playoffs, but most of those games were not close so I didn't include them.
Kobe was the leading scorer in 8/16 games in the 2001 Playoffs and 10/19 games in the 2002 Playoffs.
None of that does anything to recuse Kobe of riding Shaq's nuts. I've shown the evidence that, when Kobe tried to be the alpha, he cost the Lakers a ring. I've showed that Shaq's efficiency dwarfed Kobe's. I've shown that Kobe wasn't the main guy, and basically wasn't a main guy on a contender at all before Pau was acquired, and even then it was about 50/50 with only Kobe's shot attempts garnering him the MVP while Pau did the real work and made the real difference.
No way then can you compare Kobe and Duncan. Duncan dragged a retiring DR to his 2nd ring, and then rung again with Manu and Tony, and then again. Duncan was the focal point every time. He didn't get the last MVP because the Cavs didn't fight hard enough to make his defense stand out, and his offense wasn't that great but didn't need to be.
Duncan has been alpha since he's been in the league. Kobe has ridden nuts and threatened to quit and then bailed on his team during the hard times. Spurs never missed the playoffs since Tim. 14 consecutive 50 win seasons (would be more if the lockout didn't happen). That's an NBA record. What can Kobe claim, somewhere on the scoring list? Popularity? China?
Now correlate Kobe's highest scorer games vs win/loss of those games.
Look at every game in the 2001 playoffs, Lakers won every single game except the first Finals game when Kobe was awful.
Conference Finals
2000 WCF vs Blazers
Shaq: 25.9 PPG, 12.4 RPG, 4.3 APG, 0.1 SPG, 1.9 BPG, 53.7%FG, 55.0%TS
Kobe: 20.4 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.6 SPG, 2.1 BPG, 43.9%FG, 55.2%TS
2001 WCF vs Spurs
Shaq: 27 PPG, 13 RPG, 2.5 APG, 0.75 SPG, 1.25 BPG, 54.1%FG, 54.7%TS
Kobe: 33.3 PPG, 7 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.75 BPG, 51.4%FG, 57.1%TS
2002 WCF vs Kings
Shaq: 30.3 PPG, 13.6 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.4 SPG, 2.4 BPG, 53.2%FG, 56.3%TS
Kobe: 27.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 41.9%FG, 49.1%TS
exactly. this is why great guards have generally fed big men. magic fed kareem. greats like west/baylor/goodrich were at their best when they fed wilt. oscar fed kareem. a very select few like MJ have not needed a dominant low post presence to remain effective. whats crazy about MJ was he was also very efficient. taking out his wizards years, he has a 50% shooter for his career.
kobe wanted to be like MJ despite not being in the same tier of ability, which explains his extreme volume with pedestrian efficiency
So in all the post seasons during the 3peat and even the 2004 season, you only found 3 series you could cherry pick.
There's a reason Shaq won the MVP 3 times, and a reason why Tim had 3 Finals MVPs and 4 rings before Kobe ever had his own compe ive team.
RJ fed Luke
Other series vs Spurs not already posted
2002 WCSF vs Spurs
Shaq: 21.4 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 3.2 APG, 0.6 SPG, 3.0 BPG, 44.7%FG, 48.7%TS
Kobe: 26.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 45.5%FG, 48.6%TS
2004 WCSF vs Spurs
Shaq: 22.5 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.2 SPG, 4.3 BPG, 63.5%FG, 60.1%TS
Kobe: 26.3 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 5.8 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 46.2%FG, 53.4%TS
What did I cherrypick? Those were the all the WCF during the 3peat which you did not post.
during the 3peat they played in 12 different playoff series and you chose 3. get real
Rest of the 2001 run not already posted
2001 WCQF vs Blazers
Shaq: 27 PPG, 15.7 RPG, 2.7 APG, 0 SPG, 1 BPG, 48.4%FG, 52.6%TS
Kobe: 25 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 7.7 APG, 2.3 SPG, 0 BPG, 48.1%FG, 56.5%TS
2001 WCSF vs Kings
Shaq: 33.3 PPG, 17.3 RPG, 2.3 APG, 0.5 SPG, 3.3 BPG, 59.8%FG, 58.9%TS
Kobe: 35 PPG, 9 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 47.3%FG, 58.8%TS
Lol listen clown, I posted nearly every single series of the 3peat. I'm not a cherrypicking got like the rest of them.
Where's your he rode his nuts now got?
Explain then why Kobe's numbers suffered so much in the Finals.
My explanation: Teams doubled Shaq in the playoffs, leaving Kobe wide open. Teams showed more on Kobe in the Finals, relieving at least some pressure from Shaq and thus Kobe's much lower numbers vs Shaq.
The figures don't lie, but liars like you figure. Alphas perform in the Finals. Kobe never got near Shaq's insane numbers.
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