My take on Patrick Mills

[jkid12456]

But shooting is something that Patty does much better than Parker. I don't know see any point in comparing the two players. They're different players who have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't expect Mills to ever be as good as Parker at finishing at the rim, and I don't see Parker improving his three point shooting to the point where he'll be a consistent threat at the three point line (like Patty is). It is what it is.

...And Mills is much quicker than Parker was/is.

[benfti]

Am Australian, have followed Patty for some time and yes, that is a ridiculous notion.

indeed, the points average is far to low.

[benfti]

TP gets to the rack far more than Patty does in the same ratio that Patty is a better range shooter than TP.

Point being they are different players.

would Patty with post moves be better than Duncan? a question equally worth investigating.

[Baam]

TP gets to the rack far more than Patty does in the same ratio that Patty is a better range shooter than TP.

Point being they are different players.

would Patty with post moves be better than Duncan? a question equally worth investigating.

Actually TP has great post moves for a PG, post game is equally important as passing imo to determine the BBiQ of a player...

Look at the great SGs : Kobe, Manu, Harden, Stephenson and the likes are way better point guards than Patty...

Anyway there's a step between scrubs backup PG and All-Star, it's called starting PG, something Mills may never be...

[Baam]

But shooting is something that Patty does much better than Parker. I don't know see any point in comparing the two players. They're different players who have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't expect Mills to ever be as good as Parker at finishing at the rim, and I don't see Parker improving his three point shooting to the point where he'll be a consistent threat at the three point line (like Patty is). It is what it is.

...And Mills is much quicker than Parker was/is.

Not with the ball.

[Ice009]

Not sure that Mills has ever been faster than a young Parker with the ball. I only count speed with the ball. Don't care how fast you are without it, that metric doesn't matter much in the NBA or most basketball leagues.

Edit : I meant on offense when referring to PGs and comparing speed.

[Mikeanaro]

Not sure that Mills has ever been faster than a young Parker with the ball. I only count speed with the ball. Don't care how fast you are without it, that metric doesn't matter much in the NBA or most basketball leagues.

Of course it matters if you are running like a madman to block a guy from behind or to protect your zone you must be quick, defense is always a physical thing... even to switch your position to receive the ball you should count speed without the ball, Patty is faster than Tony even the young version.

[Ice009]

Of course it matters if you are running like a madman to block a guy from behind or to protect your zone you must be quick, defense is always a physical thing... even to switch your position to receive the ball you should count speed without the ball, Patty is faster than Tony even the young version.

I was talking on offense, didn't say anything about speed on the defensive end. Also, we're having a discussion about speedy players (PGs in particular) and when I think of speed on the NBA court, I think of a PG with the ball in his hands. You could run a 10 flat in the 100m, but you could still not be considered quick on the court. We're strictly talking PGs here, and I simply don't measure their speed or care about how fast they are without the ball in their hands. IMO, Tony is faster with the ball in his hands, maybe not now, but I think he was - partially due to his superior handles.

[Boomersgold]

I was talking on offense, didn't say anything about speed on the defensive end. Also, we're having a discussion about speedy players (PGs in particular) and when I think of speed on the NBA court, I think of a PG with the ball in his hands. You could run a 10 flat in the 100m, but you could still not be considered quick on the court. We're strictly talking PGs here, and I simply don't measure their speed or care about how fast they are without the ball in their hands. IMO, Tony is faster with the ball in his hands, maybe not now, but I think he was - partially due to his superior handles.

What about off-the-ball movement? Running off of screens to get open for the shot? Cuts to the basket for layups? Leading the fast break? Like I said earlier, Mills doesn't play like TP. Whilst Tony likes to get in the lane by himself for the deuce, Mills will often utilize his speed to get open for jumpers (off the ball movement). Point is, speed can be used in a mul ude of ways. You don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court.

Plus, I don't think it's his ball handling that limits his 'speed', or how fast he dribbles the ball. Imo, it's got more to do with Pop wanting the game to be slowed down and played in his system.

EDIT: Found a clip of Mills at his fastest. He outruns everyone on team USA for an easy coast-to-coast layup (See 1min 27sec). I don't remember seeing TP this fast in his rookie year.

[Ice009]

What about off-the-ball movement? Running off of screens to get open for the shot? Cuts to the basket for layups? Leading the fast break? Like I said earlier, Mills doesn't play like TP. Whilst Tony likes to get in the lane by himself for the deuce, Mills will often utilize his speed to get open for jumpers (off the ball movement). Point is, speed can be used in a mul ude of ways. You don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court.

Plus, I don't think it's his ball handling that limits his 'speed', or how fast he dribbles the ball. Imo, it's got more to do with Pop wanting the game to be slowed down and played in his system.

EDIT: Found a clip of Mills at his fastest. He outruns every one on team USA for an easy coast-to-coast layup (See 1min 27sec). I don't remember seeing TP this fast in his rookie year.

PGs are supposed to have the ball in THEIR hands for a lot of the time. Again, that is why I look at their speed with the ball in their hands. Sure, their off the ball speed can help too, but a PG is supposed to have the ball in their hands. I want my PG to be able to create for others, and if they are covered then create for himself. I want him breaking down defenses and getting to the rim where he can either pass it off, score for himself or even draw the foul. Mills can't do any of that, not that I have seen anyway. The fact that you're talking about off the ball movement, you're basically saying that he's a SG and not a PG, which is what most people here on Spurstalk are telling you guys.

No, you don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court, but if you're a PG and you're a crap dribbler, then I don't think you could be as effective with the speed you've been given.

I watched the clip and he blew past Deron Williams from the looks of it. Deron isn't known for his speed.

[Boomersgold]

PGs are supposed to have the ball in THEIR hands for a lot of the time. Again, that is why I look at their speed with the ball in their hands. Sure, their off the ball speed can help too, but a PG is supposed to have the ball in their hands. I want my PG to be able to create for others, and if they are covered then create for himself. I want him breaking down defenses and getting to the rim where he can either pass it off, score for himself or even draw the foul. Mills can't do any of that, not that I have seen anyway. The fact that you're talking about off the ball movement, you're basically saying that he's a SG and not a PG, which is what most people here on Spurstalk are telling you guys.

No, you don't have to be an exceptional dribbler to be 'fast' on the court, but if you're a PG and you're a crap dribbler, then I don't think you could be as effective with the speed you've been given.

I watched the clip and he blew past Deron Williams from the looks of it. Deron isn't known for his speed.

Yep, not disagreeing that Mills is a score-first point guard. Guess that's why the Spurs have Manu and Bellineli as the playmakers. Mills is still young though, so there's plenty of time to learn.

[Cry Havoc]

A couple of points.

1) I don't understand the people ripping Jeremy Lin in this thread. You guys are saying he "came back To Earth" ? Really? He went from being one of the last guys in the LEAGUE off the bench, literally worse than Nando or Beno, to starting for the Knicks, to signing and seeing starts and big minutes for one of the best teams in the league this year. That is not coming back to Earth, he drastically increased his value and a lot of teams would love to have him on their squad now. No one thought he was going to be an NBA first team player even when he was lighting up for the Knicks.

2) Mills is not TP. However that doesn't mean he can't be a significant contributor to this team. It's a little strange that so many people are critical of him because he doesn't have Tony's handles or finishing ability. Well, no , Parker is a perennial all-star candidate and former serious MVP vote-getter. You aren't going to get that off the bench, even Manu as good as he was never made the top 3 in MVP talks. Pop himself said that Patty has worked his ass off and gotten a lot better in the off season, so that's a pretty telling indicator of where the Spurs think he is as a player. We all know how difficult it is to earn minutes on this team, so the fact that Mills has consistently been doing that is a BIG deal. Pop doesn't give consistent minutes to guys who were 14th in the rotation unless something changed, or the player dyed his hair a certain shade of crimson.

3) I'd also like to address the idea that Mills needs to be a ball dominating point guard to succeed in our system. That's kind of interesting, considering a LONG standing critique of Parker on this forum is that he hangs on to the ball too much. Now all of a sudden that's being listed as a virtue? Bizarre. The Spurs run a very different offense from most teams, especially off the bench. Mills doesn't need to have the ball for 17 seconds of every possession to be an asset and a scoring threat. The big question is can he get the ball across half court against lock down playoff defenses and still be a 6-10 ppg guy there with occasional bursts of 15+. If he can, he'll be the best backup we've had at the 1 in YEARS, regardless of anything else. It's not like the other guys we've had coming in for Tony have ever been adequate defensively, so before anyone goes there, just tell me how many have shown real game other than Mills in the past 8+ years in San Antonio in this role. I'm betting it's less than 3 if you discount TJ.

Lastly, anyone who thinks going out and scoring 30+ against bad NBA teams is easy, something that any bench player can do... Keep in mind that the WORST NBA players are better than almost ANY college player, even the lotto picks. Nando would make any college team in the country his . Most of the highly touted can't miss players bust out, especially if you take away the top 3 picks in any draft. The worst NBA team is full of guys who are more athletic than 99.99% of people you will ever meet. Doing what Patty has done could be a short term hot streak but it isn't less impressive just because he went off against sub 500. Again show me a backup aside from Manu (who's obviously a special case) who has even been CLOSE to that in San Antonio before you rip Mills down. At worst, he's got potential, and that's a damn sight more than I can say about the backup point position in a LOOOOONG time. Unless you guys want to go back to the days of Manu running point when Parker sits?

[Mel_13]

A couple of points.

1) I don't understand the people ripping Jeremy Lin in this thread. You guys are saying he "came back To Earth" ? Really? He went from being one of the last guys in the LEAGUE off the bench, literally worse than Nando or Beno, to starting for the Knicks, to signing and seeing starts and big minutes for one of the best teams in the league this year. That is not coming back to Earth, he drastically increased his value and a lot of teams would love to have him on their squad now. No one thought he was going to be an NBA first team player even when he was lighting up for the Knicks.

2) Mills is not TP. However that doesn't mean he can't be a significant contributor to this team. It's a little strange that so many people are critical of him because he doesn't have Tony's handles or finishing ability. Well, no , Parker is a perennial all-star candidate and former serious MVP vote-getter. You aren't going to get that off the bench, even Manu as good as he was never made the top 3 in MVP talks. Pop himself said that Patty has worked his ass off and gotten a lot better in the off season, so that's a pretty telling indicator of where the Spurs think he is as a player. We all know how difficult it is to earn minutes on this team, so the fact that Mills has consistently been doing that is a BIG deal. Pop doesn't give consistent minutes to guys who were 14th in the rotation unless something changed, or the player dyed his hair a certain shade of crimson.

3) I'd also like to address the idea that Mills needs to be a ball dominating point guard to succeed in our system. That's kind of interesting, considering a LONG standing critique of Parker on this forum is that he hangs on to the ball too much. Now all of a sudden that's being listed as a virtue? Bizarre. The Spurs run a very different offense from most teams, especially off the bench. Mills doesn't need to have the ball for 17 seconds of every possession to be an asset and a scoring threat. The big question is can he get the ball across half court against lock down playoff defenses and still be a 6-10 ppg guy there with occasional bursts of 15+. If he can, he'll be the best backup we've had at the 1 in YEARS, regardless of anything else. It's not like the other guys we've had coming in for Tony have ever been adequate defensively, so before anyone goes there, just tell me how many have shown real game other than Mills in the past 8+ years in San Antonio in this role. I'm betting it's less than 3 if you discount TJ.

Lastly, anyone who thinks going out and scoring 30+ against bad NBA teams is easy, something that any bench player can do... Keep in mind that the WORST NBA players are better than almost ANY college player, even the lotto picks. Nando would make any college team in the country his . Most of the highly touted can't miss players bust out, especially if you take away the top 3 picks in any draft. The worst NBA team is full of guys who are more athletic than 99.99% of people you will ever meet. Doing what Patty has done could be a short term hot streak but it isn't less impressive just because he went off against sub 500. Again show me a backup aside from Manu (who's obviously a special case) who has even been CLOSE to that in San Antonio before you rip Mills down. At worst, he's got potential, and that's a damn sight more than I can say about the backup point position in a LOOOOONG time. Unless you guys want to go back to the days of Manu running point when Parker sits?

[benfti]

[spurraider21]

are we seriously arguing patty vs parker

[ceds]

That was a young Jazz WCF version of DWill with good NBA speed, not the fat player he is now for Brooklyn.
He also did the same to CP3 and forced team USA to abandon a press as a 19 year old.

baseline to baseline speed. and yes (with the ball) Mills is at the top of the league.

How can you not see any similarity in Mills game as a 19 yr old prospect that you do in TP?

[Mel_13]

How can you not see any similarity in Mills game as a 19 yr old prospect that you do in TP?

Why does it bother you so much that others don't share your view?

[hater]

How can you not see any similarity in Mills game as a 19 yr old prospect that you do in TP?

totally different players. TP couldn't hit a shot to save his life, Fatty is dead eye open shooter and his entire game revolves around that

[superjames1992]

LOL at comparing Patty and TP. There really aren't any similarities.

[ceds]

It doesn't. Im not trying to make a Patty Vs TP thread

What im saying that is that they both shared the same physical talent as 19 year old draft prospects.