Your top 10-15 of this Generation? (where do Manu and Tp fall?)

[SASdynasty!]

manu coming off the bench had nothing to do with ability. nothing.

Exactly, if you want to say Manu had more ability than Parker, I'm good with that. But in terms of NBA careers, there's far more of a case for Parker.

[SpursFan86]

What?
Kobe has 2 FMVPs, Duncan has 3.
Kobe has 1 MVP, Duncan has 2.

Duncan - 5x champion, 3x FMVP, 2x MVP, 15x All-Star, 10x All-NBA 1st Team, 8x All-Defensive 1st Team

Kobe - 5x champion, 2x FMVP, 1x MVP, 17x All-Star, 11x All-NBA 1st Team, 9x All-Defensive 1st Team

Kobe absolutely is right up there with Duncan in terms of accolades. But again, he's not particularly close to Duncan on an all-time list (Duncan is top 5, Kobe is borderline top 10).

[Mikeanaro]

How could you have Manu over Tony in career?

Tony Parker
4x Champion, 1x FMVP, 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA
Regular Season: 16.9 PPG, 5.9 APG, 2.9 RPG, 0.9 SPG on 0.494 shooting with a 725-282 record.
Playoffs: 18.9 PPG, 5.3 APG, 3.0 RPG, 0.9 SPG on 0.463 shooting with a 122-74 record.

Manu Ginobili
4x Champion, 0x FMVP, 2x All-Star, 2x All-NBA, 6th Man of the Year
Regular Season: 14.3 PPG, 4.0 APG, 3.8 RPG, 1.4 SPG on 0.450 shooting with a 625-239 record.
Playoffs: 15.4 PPG, 4.0 APG, 4.3 RPG, 1.4 SPG on 0.436 shooting with a 117-63 record.

I dont count FMVPs thats a media award, Manu always had the most positive impact on court almost everygame, court vision fancy nutmegs, no look passes, 6-6 over 6-2 can dunk unselfish player can score 3 times what Parker does if you ask him, shoots the 3 since he learned to walk, and above everything he´s a playoff performer something Tony isnt.
Manu man is old and still has some flashes every now and then, Tony at 32 is fat and slow, I doubt he will get any better as time goes on.
Manu man moves more the ball finding the way to score even if he doesnt get the assist, Tony doesnt have court vision and most times hogs the ball ´till there is 3 seconds to pass and the shooter must shoot, if he makes it is a free assist, also lots of assists were to Duncan, like Rubio to Love, what happened now Ricky?
Please explain me the FMVP thing, Manu had more positive +/- than Tim and Tony combined. Who is the real MVP?
Manu is a winner and a team player, Tony isnt most times like these last 10 games the game is even and when Manu steps into the court Spurs start getting leads, then Manu leaves and we struggle, also has better defense.
Also even old Manu can Parker´s face in a 1 on 1 game.
He just accepted a lesser role as a 6th man but he is much more than that.
ASG are elected by people so they are popularity contests = stupid... a stars game with no defense at all, starts to get old fast after a couple of years.

[Sean Cagney]

Nash is the only guy who deserved to rang with Dirk but never had a supporting cast, played pretty well even with back problems and always a team guy thats sad.
Wade bought the ring shooting more FTs than the whole Mavs team like 4 games in a row.
Pau was/is a clunky center, did nothing in Memphis and was decent in LA he is not a game changer look what happened playing with Dwert MWP NASH in the 2013.
Now he is having a decent year playing for the Bulls going along with the flow.
Spurs since the Big 3 won 4, Lakers 5 but 2002 was so rigged it doesnt count to me, Wade is a phony East player like Lebron, and then one ring wonders like Dirk.
What Spurs accomplished was much difficult than what a big market can get... like the Lakers receiving calls and media love, is not the same what Popovich accomplished retooling his team staying no matter what than what Phil Jackson did... having always a killer team with Jordans Pippens Kobes Shaqs, Spoelstra won 2 without coaching look at him now.
Thats why Tim Manu and Tony are my top 3, their careers are much more rewarding than the Lakers they had to overcame everything even going from a 1st round exit, to second round exit, to conference finals exit, to finals exit and yet they have 4 rings and counting as a trio whats better than that?.

Wade shot high 50's from the field in those finals, did the refs make the ball go in there? Pau was a solid player in his prime, he was not nearly as bad as you are saying. He is a gifted big man who can pass and shoot the ball and has some post game, not great but a very good player.

Nash did not play a lick of D nor did those Suns teams, great on O and passing but his D was HORRIBLE! D Wins championships right? No Supporting cast? Those Suns teams were loaded are you serious? They had talent up and down on them, just never played a LICK of D.

I agree on the Spurs with what you said but Manu and Tony are not 2-3 of this generation, nobody outside of a homer would say that and thats the truth. BEST TEAM they are and no question about that, but outside of Tim they don't have a top 10 player outside of a year here or there. We are talking all decade here not a few years here and there in which Manu was top ten or Tony. If we go TEAMS Spurs #1, period.

[SASdynasty!]

Duncan - 5x champion, 3x FMVP, 2x MVP, 15x All-Star, 10x All-NBA 1st Team, 8x All-Defensive 1st Team

Kobe - 5x champion, 2x FMVP, 1x MVP, 17x All-Star, 11x All-NBA 1st Team, 9x All-Defensive 1st Team

Kobe absolutely is right up there with Duncan in terms of accolades. But again, he's not particularly close to Duncan on an all-time list (Duncan is top 5, Kobe is borderline top 10).

He's up there, but he's not there. Are you offsetting fan-voted All-Star selections when Kobe didn't even play to a FMVP or being the best player on 4 championship teams to Kobe's 2?

[SASdynasty!]

I dont count FMVPs thats a media award, Manu always had the most positive impact on court almost everygame, court vision fancy nutmegs, no look passes, 6-6 over 6-2 can dunk unselfish player can score 3 times what Parker does if you ask him, shoots the 3 since he learned to walk, and above everything he´s a playoff performer something Tony isnt.
Manu man is old and still has some flashes every now and then, Tony at 32 is fat and slow, I doubt he will get any better as time goes on.
Manu man moves more the ball finding the way to score even if he doesnt get the assist, Tony doesnt have court vision and most times hogs the ball ´till there is 3 seconds to pass and the shooter must shoot, if he makes it is a free assist, also lots of assists were to Duncan, like Rubio to Love, what happened now Ricky?
Please explain me the FMVP thing, Manu had more positive +/- than Tim and Tony combined. Who is the real MVP?
Manu is a winner and a team player, Tony isnt most times like these last 10 games the game is even and when Manu steps into the court Spurs start getting leads, then Manu leaves and we struggle, also has better defense.
Also even old Manu can Parker´s face in a 1 on 1 game.
He just accepted a lesser role as a 6th man but he is much more than that.
ASG are elected by people so they are popularity contests = stupid... a stars game with no defense at all, starts to get old fast after a couple of years.

Ok there are too many things in this run-on post to correct but here are a few: (1) FMVPs are meaningless to you? Wow. (2) You're using Manu's height as an argument? (3) He can score 3 times what Parker does? Then why has he never scored as much as Parker has in any single game or in his averages? (4) Manu's has "flashes" and Parker (one of the fastest players to play the game is fat and slow? Lol. (5) Manu is a winner. What does that even mean? (6) He can beat him one on one? WTF? (7) ASG selections are not all fan-voted bro...only started like Kobe's...not coach-voted like Tony's. might want to check your sources.

[SASdynasty!]

Is the fact that Tony's had the better career really that offensive? Wow.

[SpursFan86]

He's up there, but he's not there. Are you offsetting fan-voted All-Star selections when Kobe didn't even play to a FMVP or being the best player on 4 championship teams to Kobe's 2?

I'm simply pointing out that if you just look at Duncan's accolades vs. Kobe's, they appear to be much more even than they really are.

Parker has far more accolades than Manu. Manu has easily been the better player.

[SASdynasty!]

I'm simply pointing out that if you just look at Duncan's accolades vs. Kobe's, they appear to be much more even than they really are.

Parker has far more accolades than Manu. Manu has easily been the better player.

I get that that's you're opinion. What I'm looking for is your argument. An argument is not simply stating your opinion btw.

[hater]

Is the fact that Tony's had the better career really that offensive? Wow.

short bus....they ride it for a reason

[Mikeanaro]

Wade shot high 50's from the field in those finals, did the refs make the ball go in there? Pau was a solid player in his prime, he was not nearly as bad as you are saying. He is a gifted big man who can pass and shoot the ball and has some post game, not great but a very good player.

Nash did not play a lick of D nor did those Suns teams, great on O and passing but his D was HORRIBLE! D Wins championships right? No Supporting cast? Those Suns teams were loaded are you serious? They had talent up and down on them, just never played a LICK of D.

I agree on the Spurs with what you said but Manu and Tony are not 2-3 of this generation, nobody outside of a homer would say that and thats the truth. BEST TEAM they are and no question about that, but outside of Tim they don't have a top 10 player outside of a year here or there. We are talking all decade here not a few years here and there in which Manu was top ten or Tony. If we go TEAMS Spurs #1, period.

The refs gave Wade 25 fts during game 5(Salvatore, Crawford) they won 101-100, how Many freebies Dallas had? 25 so it seems his high 50´s were not so important.
Game 7 Wade 21 Fts and Mavs had 23 Fts did the refs make the ball go in there? of course THEY GAVE HIM 46 FREE THROWS IN 2 GAMES!
Nash did not play a lick or D so our guy Parker, but his teams were not as talented as our Spurs come on Amare was his primary choice dude was a joke, what more? Boris was lazy, Barbosa was efective, Shawn Marion was good but they are not Bowen Horry Ginobili or Duncan, even clunky caveman Oberto doing the dirty work was great during those series, thats a 5 player difference much better in my opinion.
I make my list based on what they have accomplished, Im not into athletic dunks or showmanship, my list is about winners who never got love from refs thats why the big 3 is first.
No brons Tmacs Carter Iversons Arenas that game is not for me.
Also DMC said yesterday ¨control the destiny is an oxymoron¨ I highly disagree, we were ed vs OKC, Dallas was ruined vs Miami and lots of bad stuff in all aspects of life which we can avoid so in a way we control our destiny, to resume refs makes me sick, what happened to the anti flop rule?

[100%duncan]

Is the fact that Tony's had the better career really that offensive? Wow.

It's offensive because it's not a fact.

[ElNono]

Basketball-Reference
For combined seasons; played in the NBA/BAA; in the regular season; from 1995-96 to 2014-15; sorted by descending Win Shares.

Defining "this generation" as twenty years, which has endpoints very favorable to Duncan.

1) Tim Duncan
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) Kevin Garnett
4) LeBron James
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Paul Pierce
7) Ray Allen
8) Shaquille O'Neal
9) Jason Kidd
10) Chris Paul

22) Tony Parker

26) Manu Ginobili

28) Tracy McGrady

39) Michael Finley

43) David Robinson

48) Richard Jefferson

62) Brent Barry
63) Antonio McDyess

72) Kurt Thomas

Not a bad list.

[100%duncan]

Parker s turning this into a manu vs parker thread then go on complaining on "short busses " and "why do u hate tony? "

[Mikeanaro]

Parker s turning this into a manu vs parker thread then go on complaining on "short busses " and "why do u hate tony? "

Its sad.

[100%duncan]

Its sad.

I literally mentioned it in the op until one guy, prolly parker's bestie but i wont mention who, came in and ruined it

[hater]

lots of Evi tears in this thread. tbh

[RodNIc91]

Peak:
1- Shaq
2- Lebron
3- Duncan
4- Garnett
5- Wade
6- Kobe
7- Nowitzki
8- Durant
9- Paul
10- Nash

Career:
1- Duncan
2- Lebron
3- Shaq
4- Kobe
5- Garnett
6- Nowitzki
7- Wade
8- Nash
9- Kidd
10- Gasol

What do you mean by peak? Dominance? Why is Lebron more dominant than TD to you?

[Seventyniner]

Here we go

[Seventyniner]

I dont count FMVPs thats a media award, Manu always had the most positive impact on court almost everygame, court vision fancy nutmegs, no look passes, 6-6 over 6-2 can dunk unselfish player can score 3 times what Parker does if you ask him, shoots the 3 since he learned to walk, and above everything he´s a playoff performer something Tony isnt.
Manu man is old and still has some flashes every now and then, Tony at 32 is fat and slow, I doubt he will get any better as time goes on.
Manu man moves more the ball finding the way to score even if he doesnt get the assist, Tony doesnt have court vision and most times hogs the ball ´till there is 3 seconds to pass and the shooter must shoot, if he makes it is a free assist, also lots of assists were to Duncan, like Rubio to Love, what happened now Ricky?
Please explain me the FMVP thing, Manu had more positive +/- than Tim and Tony combined. Who is the real MVP?
Manu is a winner and a team player, Tony isnt most times like these last 10 games the game is even and when Manu steps into the court Spurs start getting leads, then Manu leaves and we struggle, also has better defense.
Also even old Manu can Parker´s face in a 1 on 1 game.
He just accepted a lesser role as a 6th man but he is much more than that.
ASG are elected by people so they are popularity contests = stupid... a stars game with no defense at all, starts to get old fast after a couple of years.

The question isn't who has been a better player, it's who has had a better career. I'd even say that Parker has had a better career than a guy like T-Mac even though T-Mac was a much better individual player.

As to "who is the real MVP?" (of the 2007 Finals), the answer is Parker, because he has the hardware.

Your point about the All-Star game selections is moot because Parker and Ginobili have always been reserves, which are voted on by the coaches. Only the starters are selected by popular vote.

I'll admit that Manu has been a better player and that this year's version of Parker has been terrible. But Parker's NBA career achievements still outshine Manu's NBA career achievements, which was the question.

[hater]

here is my list fellas:

Combined (Peak + Career):
1 Duncan
2 Shaq
3 Lebron
4 Kobe
5 Wade

6 Kidd
7 KG
8 Dirk
9 Nash
10 Parker

11 Pierce
12 Manu
13 Gasol
14 Allen
15 Carter

16 Tmac
17 C3p0
18 Durant
19 Melo
20 Billups

21 Wallace
22 Marion
23 Bosh
24 Ming
25 Odom

[hater]

incidentally if Parker + Manu win another ring I can't see why they wouldn't be #8 and #9 respectively

[Mikeanaro]

The question isn't who has been a better player, it's who has had a better career. I'd even say that Parker has had a better career than a guy like T-Mac even though T-Mac was a much better individual player.

As to "who is the real MVP?" (of the 2007 Finals), the answer is Parker, because he has the hardware.

Your point about the All-Star game selections is moot because Parker and Ginobili have always been reserves, which are voted on by the coaches. Only the starters are selected by popular vote.

I'll admit that Manu has been a better player and that this year's version of Parker has been terrible. But Parker's NBA career achievements still outshine Manu's NBA career achievements, which was the question.

Manu had a better career even punched a bat what else can you ask?
What hardware? Longoria´s ass? Manu had the most impact the whole series thats a fact, better than Duncan and Parker combined.
All Stars are a piece of , I say that because counting that as an achievement is for re s.
Parker has a better achievement because he´s seen as a starter plays more minutes and shoots a lot of garbage for padding stats purposes.
Im not into clowns I´ve said it before he is the weakest link of the big 3, if I were into clowns my list would have Lebron Wade and Howard.

[TheGreatYacht]

here is my list fellas:

Combined (Peak + Career):
1 Duncan
2 Shaq
3 Lebron
4 Kobe
5 Wade

6 Kidd
7 KG
8 Dirk
9 Nash
10 Parker

11 Pierce
12 Manu
13 Gasol
14 Allen
15 Carter

16 Tmac
17 C3p0
18 Durant
19 Melo
20 Billups

21 Wallace
22 Marion
23 Bosh
24 Ming
25 Odom

This tbh

[TMTTRIO]

Not saying Manu is in the top of players or anything but being on the Spurs and playing behind two other great players and as a sixth man for his whole career didn't help his individual career (other than being a winner). How many AS are bench players? Interesting the only time he made it was when he was starting for a while.