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I am not in Cindy's shoes so I will not judge her actions.
"If it works on you, then you might want to check your thinking skills, because it is only designed to work against shallow thinkers."..................Thats an opinion Dan and you're certainly en led to it, but don't try to pass it off as fact!
I am not in Cindy's shoes so I will not judge her actions.
Don't you see that this is Utopian thinking? It's the same bull thinking that got liberals in trouble in the 60-late 70's, foreign interventionism, thinking that we can intervene in other countries and all the sudden it's was gonna be rainbows and lollipops.it's not dynamic. yeah, the weapons were bull , and that was a collossal up, but the reason has been the same since then...to liberate the iraqi people, to bring peace and stability to the middle east, and yeah, to secure ourselves a piece of the oil pie and have a tactical stronghold if needed, right in the lions den of the middle east. maybe if we can have relations with iraq, then corrupt relations with the saudis can cease and desist....
The thinking has always been to use Iraq’s vast reserves as a way to break OPEC’s back, and it would also put Iraqi oil back on the American dollar strengthening the currency, but then the NeoCon’s utopian dream ran into that cold called reality.
The U.S. lost international justification for the war when we failed to find WMD’s and/or any direct link between Saddam and 911, or Iraq and International terrorism. The W.H.’s changing justification for the Iraq war may have flown with some at home, but it didn’t fly anywhere else around the world.
From then on it’s pretty much been the U.S. and the British doing the lion’s share of the fighting and dieing in Iraq. Military strategist continue to suggest that in order to stop the Iraqi insurgency now, the U.S. would need between 350,000-400,000 troops in Iraq, but we don’t have those kind of numbers troops to commit.
If we really want to win in Iraq, the U.S. is gonna need more than just a volunteer Army, but the only other option, isn’t politically expedient.
Damn right you not cause those be crazy shoes.
i agree that reality is a cold sometimes. other times, it's a shining light.
it's all about perspective my friend. perhaps my 'utopian' viewpoints are cuz my man is in the whitehouse...i'm sure many libs had the same 'utopian' viewpoint when Bill was there. But FACTS are FACTS. Innocents have died. There were dying before we ever stepped one foot in Iraq. Less are dying today. Even less will die tomorrow. The bad guys are getting squashed like roaches. one at at time...one group at a time. Rome was not built in a day.
As for international JUSTIFICATION? EM. THAT'S RIGHT.. EM.
They are insecure nations that fear the Power of the United States. Contrary to popular belief, the United States IS NOT abusing it's power and authority here. They are LIBERATING AN OPPRESSED PEOPLE! The other insecure nations are OBLIVIOUS to this FACT! They need to wakeup as well. But more likely, the had CORRUPT interests and dealings with Saddam, and are PISSED that the Iraqi cash machine they had is GONE. Now, if they want something from Iraq? They need to get in line, go through proper channels, channels that will BENEFIT the people, and not just one tator...i.e. Hussein.
As for stopping the 'Insurgency'? 1st of all, i believe it's primarily pissed off Iraqi's that were living high off the hog with Saddam in power and yes, other evil insecure idiots from other countries that are coming to break up the Freedom Party. If Democracy Wins in Iraq? AMERICA WINS. And all the HATERS have to eat crow and ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG! People will DIE to ensure that does not happen...
I hate that the borders are not better controlled. But the more I think about it, the more I kind of like it. The U.S. has built a Roach Motel in Iraq and they are all coming to US! They check in, but they don't check out.
Of course, there is the moral argument of having all this chaos go down in and around innocent Iraqi citizens...I concur. I don't have all the answers, but I KNOW we, as a Nation, are on the RIGHT PATH...take off the blinders and keep the faith man.
that was reason #2
reason #1, disarming Saddam
err...
reason 3
setting up a foothold of democracy in the middle east
err...
reason 4
fighting terrorism
yeah thats good because it can go on forever!
mookie, with all due respect, you are in way over your head...Godbless you and keep getting info and stop believing all the bias bull that is spoonfed to you...
Disarming Saddam.
Are you aware he killed HIS OWN PEOPLE WITH WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?
This means he had access to said weapons. This mean, ANY one that HATED THE US, could simply arrange a meeting with the man, tell them their plan to Kill Thousands of Americans on American Soil, throw him some cash, and TADA! You now have an ARMED SUICIDAL/HOMICIDAL Maniac on his way to the United States to carry out a misguided plan, all while Saddam could sit back, rape, kill, etc, and Laugh at the United States predicament.
but hey, it's good to know that you think Democracy, Liberation, and Fighting Terrorism as NOT GOOD ENOUGH REASONS to be in Iraq. it's good to know where you Stand man. Keep learning. You are young. The TRUTH is out there bro.
we've got a lot of invading to do if thats your logic
i'm not naive enough to disregard the presence of OIL in IRAQ.
Money is ALWAYS a factor in things like this...
If you can do GREAT Things on the way to ensuring a better and more secure future for America, which is Bush's ULTIMATE Responsibility, all the better.
but I do agree, there is NO REASON why ANY PEOPLE SHOULD BE OPPRESSED in this World. I have hope...but One thing at a time...
Of course.. Somalia is crawling with radical Islam and Al queda.. I even think Osama is staying with a warlord.. (they have total control, no media and no govt)..
But no oil means see ya.. and that applies to both Bush and Clinton...
Where we the American people, and Bush in particular, really screw things up is when we assume that people everywhere want to be free.but hey, it's good to know that you think Democracy, Liberation, and Fighting Terrorism as NOT GOOD ENOUGH REASONS to be in Iraq. it's good to know where you Stand man. Keep learning. You are young. The TRUTH is out there bro.
It's not true. Most people in the world, even many Americans, are perfectly happy being told what to do as long as they have their own place in the world. What people yearn for is to belong somewhere. It's perfectly nice when GWB says that freedom is a gift from God, but the only freedom that is spoken of in the Bible is freedom from the power of sin. It says nothing about living in a free country.
You can't develop a culture that values freedom and democracy overnight. It takes centuries. The Middle East is at square one. In Iraq, people are paralyzed because there is nobody telling them what to do unless American soldiers do it, and they have no concept of taking initiative for themselves. Initiative means risk, risk means the chance of failure, failure means loss of face, loss of face means dishonor for the entire family, and dishonor means ostracism.
We have no concept of these things in our culture. We don't understand their values, just like they don't understand ours. We might as well speak only English while they speak only Arabic and act surprised when they don't understand what we say.
Assuming things go perfect from here on out, we might see a stable moderate democracy in Iraq sometime in the 24 1/2th Century, when Dakk Al-Dahdjers is elected prime minister.
There you go again trying to use reasoning with someone who has none. Don't you know according to him and Dan that WMD never existed in Iraq, that was a figment of Bush's on thinking. No one else thought of it. Now those Kurds that died of some strange thing, no one really knows for sure anymore, just killed over and died clutching their children or lay down and died in the streets. The Iranians did the same, no WMD involved, none did you hear me......N O N E. They didn't exist, never, never, never. Just quit saying they did. Bush just wants oil and employment for Hailliburton. He wants to appoint people who want to destroy the United States and are not qualified, well except Roberts, who is already replacing a conservative. But the next Supreme will have to fit the O'Conner mold. Some real logic in their thinking, isn't there?mookie, with all due respect, you are in way over your head...Godbless you and keep getting info and stop believing all the bias bull that is spoonfed to you...
Disarming Saddam.
Are you aware he killed HIS OWN PEOPLE WITH WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?
This means he had access to said weapons. This mean, ANY one that HATED THE US, could simply arrange a meeting with the man, tell them their plan to Kill Thousands of Americans on American Soil, throw him some cash, and TADA! You now have an ARMED SUICIDAL/HOMICIDAL Maniac on his way to the United States to carry out a misguided plan, all while Saddam could sit back, rape, kill, etc, and Laugh at the United States predicament.
but hey, it's good to know that you think Democracy, Liberation, and Fighting Terrorism as NOT GOOD ENOUGH REASONS to be in Iraq. it's good to know where you Stand man. Keep learning. You are young. The TRUTH is out there bro.
Yeah, and we tolerated that just like we tolerated his using them on Iranian soldiers and citizens 20 years ago. Where was the righteousness then?Are you aware he killed HIS OWN PEOPLE WITH WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?So, where are the WMDs now?This means he had access to said weapons. This mean, ANY one that HATED THE US, could simply arrange a meeting with the man, tell them their plan to Kill Thousands of Americans on American Soil, throw him some cash, and TADA! You now have an ARMED SUICIDAL/HOMICIDAL Maniac on his way to the United States to carry out a misguided plan, all while Saddam could sit back, rape, kill, etc, and Laugh at the United States predicament.
You are trying to sell a Democrat on the Iraq War in the name of Liberating an Opressed people?
That's almost as funny as when Lincoln tried to appeal to them to end slavery to Liberate the Black people...
Their response was to secede from the Union and found the KKK
LOL sorry Zak...I like your political views, but I don't think you understand who you are dealing with here...
What in the world makes you think the Democrats give a about liberating opressed people?
When and where have they ever done anything to indicate they care about this?
They have never given a about liberating opressed people...
They didn't want slavery to end.
They didn't care about what happened to the millions of Vienamese and Cambodians that were brutally slaughtered after we pulled out of Vietnam...they still don't care.
In fact they're proud of it actully and continually use it as justification for their stance on this war.
And they don't give a about the Iraqis now. They do not give a ...not a one of them...if you can find one that does please show him to me.
I take that back....they give a about them when they are actually the terrorists and their deaths provide them with a chance to attack and discredit the US military and America.
But they have never given a about living opressesed people as anything more than lip service and minority votes that are easily manipulated...and if anything they have usually stood for the oppression.
And now you are asking them, not only to give a about opressed people....but to do that instead of hating and blaming Bush for something?
You are crazier than Nbadan my friend if you think there is a chance in of that happening.
this is true in times of war you protect your strategic energy supplies...But no oil means see ya.. and that applies to both Bush and Clinton...
any intelligence analyst will tell you that.
"And thats the way it is Wed. Sept, 28th, 2005....good evening"
You are trying to sell a Democrat on the Iraq War in the name of Liberating an Opressed people?
That's almost as funny as when Lincoln tried to appeal to them to end slavery to Liberate the Black people...
Their response was to secede from the Union and found the KKK
LOL sorry Zak...I like your political views, but I don't think you understand who you are dealing with here...
What in the world makes you think the Democrats give a about liberating opressed people?
When and where have they ever done anything to indicate they care about this?
They have never given a about liberating opressed people...
They didn't want slavery to end.
They didn't care about what happened to the millions of Vienamese and Cambodians that were brutally slaughtered after we pulled out of Vietnam...they still don't care.
In fact they're proud of it actully and continually use it as justification for their stance on this war.
And they don't give a about the Iraqis now. They do not give a ...not a one of them...if you can find one that does please show him to me.
I take that back....they give a about them when they are actually the terrorists and their deaths provide them with a chance to attack and discredit the US military and America.
But they have never given a about living opressesed people as anything more than lip service and minority votes that are easily manipulated...and if anything they have usually stood for the oppression.
And now you are asking them, not only to give a about opressed people....but to do that instead of hating and blaming Bush for something?
You are crazier than Nbadan my friend if you think there is a chance in of that happening.
You are trying to sell a Democrat on the Iraq War in the name of Liberating an Opressed people?
That's almost as funny as when Lincoln tried to appeal to them to end slavery to Liberate the Black people...
Their response was to secede from the Union and found the KKK
LOL sorry Zak...I like your political views, but I don't think you understand who you are dealing with here...
What in the world makes you think the Democrats give a about liberating opressed people?
When and where have they ever done anything to indicate they care about this?
They have never given a about liberating opressed people...
They didn't want slavery to end.
They didn't care about what happened to the millions of Vienamese and Cambodians that were brutally slaughtered after we pulled out of Vietnam...they still don't care.
In fact they're proud of it actully and continually use it as justification for their stance on this war.
And they don't give a about the Iraqis now. They do not give a ...not a one of them...if you can find one that does please show him to me.
I take that back....they give a about them when they are actually the terrorists and their deaths provide them with a chance to attack and discredit the US military and America.
But they have never given a about living opressesed people as anything more than lip service and minority votes that are easily manipulated...and if anything they have usually stood for the oppression.
And now you are asking them, not only to give a about opressed people....but to do that instead of hating and blaming Bush for something?
You are crazier than Nbadan my friend if you think there is a chance in of that happening.
whottt, you have alot of truth in your post, but what you have to remember is that there are idiots on both sides. Do not let the voices of the lost Liberals, who admittedly, are usually the loudest, cloud your viewpoint on all the Good People that are on the Democratic/Liberal side of the fence...
we are all the same...but those that scream how different we are the loudest are those that have the most go gain from maintaining those differences...sad, but true.
Look at all the Angels that have been sent down that have fallen at the hands of Evil Men...
MLK...killed.
JFK...killed.
Lennon...killed.
Lincoln...killed.
Many legendary artists that killed themselves with drugs...
Belushi,
Farley,
Elvis,
Mitch Hedburg,
ALMOST HAD RAY CHARLES, BUT THAT BRUTHA BEAT HIS DEMON!
many many more, i'm sure you can think of others in your head...
but don't listen to the idiots...laff at their amusing hatred, and cry for them as lost souls...help show them the way...
nbaDan is not Crazy. He is just hurt. He has alot of pain and resentment in his life and he chooses to express it outwardly. WE ALL do this sometimes...he'll wake up soon.
You mean like food for oil program, where it has been shown that Germany and France were up to their eyebrows with the corruption of the program, along with the most of the higher-ups of the UN.
Freedom.
nbaDan is not Crazy. He is just hurt. He has alot of pain and resentment in his life and he chooses to express it outwardly. WE ALL do this sometimes...he'll wake up soon.
Being called Crazy by BigZak - priceless!
Being called Crazy by BigZak - priceless!
Dan, you see what you want to see. Read again.
I said you are NOT crazy.
I'm your friend brother, not your enemy.
You are helping me to see another viewpoint on many things and for that, I am grateful.
I obviously won't always agree, but I will read and learn as best I can. Thanks.
Cindy is an American!
just a few democratic thoughts...
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a
licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
the United
States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
December 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept.. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam H ussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal o f weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and
grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five y ears ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biologica l weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has
also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members
. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the pr oduction and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
.. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real
.."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
The Iraq war sucks.
Forget it, Dos ... the power of selective memory is fierce and impenetrable.
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