Thing I learned this season

[YGWHI]

Look, other argument aside, that's eventually might not be their choice to make. If Kawhi wants to be traded, you have to move him to at least get something for him. LMA might not want to stick around long term if we can't replace him with some decent pieces and/or another star.

You're jumping to conclusions from something that could be a false presime.

[ElNono]

I mean, I was a fan before the last 20 years of success so I know what its like to root for a Spurs team who isn't a real contender and its not that bad. It doesn't have to be ring or bust. But that being said, there's really no way the Spurs are in deep . Your Aldridge thread aside, LMA has proven to be one of the top 10 players in the league this year and you can build around him. If the Spurs have to trade Kawhi, they're going to get some good pieces back. I mean look at Indiana. Everyone thought they got hosed in the trade for PG and look how well that worked out for them.

Kawhi currently is still very valuable as both a trade piece and as a possible franchise player. If I'm being honest, I have no faith in him so I'd rather see him traded, but I also have no real clue what the is going down in the organization so if they decide to keep him then OK. Worst case, we start a rebuild that we havne't seen with this team since the ing 80s so I'm OK with that but I don't think that has to happen at all.

The bolded was what my center point was in the OP. The opinion that making him the franchise backfired was merely on the fact that this team is tranquility central, and now it's not anymore. I'm not saying it's PATFO or Kawhi's fault, just that there's obviously some huge questions that will influence many years to come, and could cascade other decisions. I think it's a pretty big deal, tbh. But if people feel it isn't, good for them. Again, what I want to make clear is that I don't think the gamble was bad, or that anybody is at fault here (I don't have any secret sauces).

And about going to non-contender status, that's ok, but just let me tell you that with teams in the billion dollar values nowadays, it's not the 80's NBA anymore... when we had to watch the games on tape delay, etc. Money talks now, and if a big city like Seattle wants a team, and have the investors to acquire it, it's going to be tough if you're a sucky team. Hope I'm wrong, but keep that one in mind. Maybe it's unfounded fear here, but I much rather have a contender obviously, even if they don't ring every year, just on that fact alone.

[ElNono]

I mean if LMA comes down with some blood clot disorder then the Spurs will suck and the tank will be on. But Miami's main issue was that Lebron was able to just walk. Kawhi can't just walk.

He can next summer.

[daslicer]

I learned a lot about Kawhi's uncle this season. I didn't know Kawhi had a Lavar type of figure in his life prior to this season. Also I didn't know Kawhi cared a lot about not getting endorsements which was also revealed this season. On a positive note this drama with Kawhi will be resolved this summer with either him being traded or resigned. I have to be honest at this point of time I'm tired of the drama so I don't really give a what happens.

[ElNono]

You're jumping to conclusions from something that could be a false presime.

Do you have any certainty? If you don't, and I don't, then I gotta analyze all possible outcomes. I addressed that in the OP.

We know certain things for fact: player's only meetings, Pop comments, etc.

I'm all for Kawhi staying and that everything works out, and that's he's hopefully not a player with a chronic condition, etc. I'm wishing the best for Kawhi, because that's the best for the Spurs. But right now there's a giant cloud over all that, it's undeniable.

[MannyIsGod]

The bolded was what my center point was in the OP. The opinion that making him the franchise backfired was merely on the fact that this team is tranquility central, and now it's not anymore. I'm not saying it's PATFO or Kawhi's fault, just that there's obviously some huge questions that will influence many years to come, and could cascade other decisions. I think it's a pretty big deal, tbh. But if people feel it isn't, good for them. Again, what I want to make clear is that I don't think the gamble was bad, or that anybody is at fault here (I don't have any secret sauces).

And about going to non-contender status, that's ok, but just let me tell you that with teams in the billion dollar values nowadays, it's not the 80's NBA anymore... when we had to watch the games on tape delay, etc. Money talks now, and if a big city like Seattle wants a team, and have the investors to acquire it, it's going to be tough if you're a sucky team. Hope I'm wrong, but keep that one in mind. Maybe it's unfounded fear here, but I much rather have a contender obviously, even if they don't ring every year, just on that fact alone.

Seattle is going to get an expansion team. There's no way they're taking the Spurs from SA to Seattle. Maybe somewhere else I guess, but not there. This isn't the NFL where LA didn't have a team.

If you don't think the gamble was bad or there was no other choice, then I think your wrong in using the word backfired. Thats not what the word implies. But tranquility is an aberration in the NBA. What the Spurs did for nearly 2 decades is incredibly rare in American sports with a salary cap. I'm not sure we will ever see it again.

[MannyIsGod]

He can next summer.

And if the Spurs just sat on the situation until then then would be stupid to do so. There's zero chance of that happening.

[daslicer]

The bolded was what my center point was in the OP. The opinion that making him the franchise backfired was merely on the fact that this team is tranquility central, and now it's not anymore. I'm not saying it's PATFO or Kawhi's fault, just that there's obviously some huge questions that will influence many years to come, and could cascade other decisions. I think it's a pretty big deal, tbh. But if people feel it isn't, good for them. Again, what I want to make clear is that I don't think the gamble was bad, or that anybody is at fault here (I don't have any secret sauces).

And about going to non-contender status, that's ok, but just let me tell you that with teams in the billion dollar values nowadays, it's not the 80's NBA anymore... when we had to watch the games on tape delay, etc. Money talks now, and if a big city like Seattle wants a team, and have the investors to acquire it, it's going to be tough if you're a sucky team. Hope I'm wrong, but keep that one in mind. Maybe it's unfounded fear here, but I much rather have a contender obviously, even if they don't ring every year, just on that fact alone.

I live in Charlotte and never lived in SA but the Spurs leaving SA would be tragic. I don't get how any real spurs fan would want that to happen or keeps on pimping it every time the Spurs lose. I feel when a team moves the legacies of the players that played for that team kind of vanishes. You look at Mikan with the Minneopolis Lakers, or even Wilt with the Philadelphia Warriors. Only die hard fans remember their achievements with those franchises. The same will happen with Duncan,Robinson,Manu, etc.

[ElNono]

Seattle is going to get an expansion team. There's no way they're taking the Spurs from SA to Seattle. Maybe somewhere else I guess, but not there. This isn't the NFL where LA didn't have a team.

If you don't think the gamble was bad or there was no other choice, then I think your wrong in using the word backfired. Thats not what the word implies. But tranquility is an aberration in the NBA. What the Spurs did for nearly 2 decades is incredibly rare in American sports with a salary cap. I'm not sure we will ever see it again.

Fair enough. I wanted to make clear I didn't imply anybody was at fault here, PATFO or Kawhi, because I don't have such knowledge.

The 'normal' NBA and how this FO deals with it will be another interesting subplot. Most (all?) of these guys walked into the Spurs when Tim came around (Pop toured a bit prior with Larry Brown and Don Nelson, but we're talking 6 or so years in a different NBA).

Especially if they're going to be able to work their 'culture' thing without the actual icons that made it all happen.

[ElNono]

And if the Spurs just sat on the situation until then then would be stupid to do so. There's zero chance of that happening.

I think we agree the sooner this is taken care of, the better is going to be both for the roster and the team.

[YGWHI]

We know certain things for fact: player's only meetings, Pop comments, etc.

"Facts" with many versions..."it wasn't a meeting just a convo after a game" "it wasn't tense" and more..

But right now there's a giant cloud over all that, it's undeniable.

Overreacting for "undeniable" facts that were already denied isn't exactly my thing.

[-21-]

Great post OP.

-Manu can still contribute if he were to come back next year but Pop and the lack of capable bench players is making him shoulder too much of the load. For this reason, maybe he should retire. Tbh, I'll accept any decision Manu makes, he's earned it.

-Tony on the other hand, I fully expect to be back with the team (because family, loyalty, PATFO, etc.) but hopefully on a role/contract that's fair and worth his current value: a 3rd string PG. I'm not sure how he'd react to a drastic paycut and an even more drastic role change so it's gonna be interesting to see what happens. I'm already bracing myself for his next contract.

-Disagree with Kyle. I think the 'project' has yielded positive results. He's decent but needs to be surrounded by shooters, and I mean good shooters, not the ones we have. On a good team with the right role, he could flourish. Whether that team is the Spurs remains to be seen but I think he's worth keeping for now.

-Agree about Danny. I'm one of the biggest Danny Green fans around here but it may finally be time to move on. He is getting up there in age and this team needs a little more firepower in the backcourt. I wouldn't mind keeping him for cheap but at this point in his career, I don't blame him if he's looking to get paid.

-We're stuck with Pau and Patty. The only thing we could do is hope Patty starts playing better and PATFO find another quality big or maybe even a big wing to take minutes from Pau and LMA.

-Finally, none of this matters until the Kawhi situation is cleared up.

[ElNono]

"Facts" with many versions..."it wasn't a meeting just a convo after a game" "it wasn't tense" and more..

Would you at least agree that Pop comments are fact? We know the player's meeting/convo happened, because we normally don't hear about any player convos.

Overreacting for "undeniable" facts that were already denied isn't exactly my thing.

I'm actually complimenting Kawhi greatly here, because I think he can be such a franchise changer, so I'm not even sure what upset you about the OP

If you think Kawhi is not important to this team, and his and PATFO decision doesn't move the needle, good for you. I disagree, but hey, that's fine.

[dabom]

Fathead is a ty player. Hope someone can take him away from the Spurs.

[ElNono]

I didn't hear Kawhi demanding a trade. Did you?

So "it didn't work" for a rumor that no one has confirmed? Don't troll me.

You want me to quote Pop talking about Kawhi and "his group"? That wasn't a rumor. Kawhi sitting out almost the entire season is not a rumor. Kawhi in New York is not a rumor.

The Spurs have a huge economic decision to make in the summer with regards to Kawhi. That's not a rumor either. It has multi-year implications to the cap, etc.

Do you have any quotes from PATFO saying they're going to offer Kawhi the supermax? Once you do, let me know, I'll relax a bit because it means, at least, that Kawhi is healthy. Until then, it's all in the air.

[dabom]

Slow, unathletic, can't shoot. Not a good rebounder. And what's more, falters under pressure. Unclutch gene. Gets benched when he sucks(below roleplayer status ).

Bad passer, can't create his own space. Can't postup. Too small for guards and to slow for big men.

[dabom]

I'm pretty sure I can do a 10k word essay breakdown on fathead but it would totally be a waste of my time.

[dabom]

Dude even has a problem making bunnies.

[YGWHI]

I live in Charlotte and never lived in SA but the Spurs leaving SA would be tragic. I don't get how any real spurs fan would want that to happen or keeps on pimping it every time the Spurs lose. I feel when a team moves the legacies of the players that played for that team kind of vanishes. You look at Mikan with the Minneopolis Lakers, or even Wilt with the Philadelphia Warriors. Only die hard fans remember their achievements with those franchises. The same will happen with Duncan,Robinson,Manu, etc.

I wouldn't worry. Moving a team needs many cir stances concur in...Team owners selling, the leagues finishes a contract with the city, majority among others NBA owners approving the move...

[ElNono]

Slow, unathletic, can't shoot. Not a good rebounder. And what's more, falters under pressure. Unclutch gene. Gets benched when he sucks(below roleplayer status ).

Bad passer, can't create his own space. Can't postup. Too small for guards and to slow for big men.

Look, everybody is en led to their opinions...

I just feel that a middle of the ground bench player is not exactly what the Spurs had in mind after 4 season with the team, and I think some of his limitations are purely of character and physical. Like if he would be 20 times more crafty, he could probably get away with his lack of foot speed or athleticism. If he would be generally more aggressive, then he wouldn't be hesitant so much, both on shooting and attacking in general. My main concern is that his deal is expiring soon, the Spurs will have to commit to him, and what's really his value? I couldn't even put a finger on it based on these 4 years. I'm sure there's more room to grow in shooting, making better decisions, maybe even bulking up a bit if you want to play him under the rim...

[dabom]

Look, everybody is en led to their opinions...

I just feel that a middle of the ground bench player is not exactly what the Spurs had in mind after 4 season with the team, and I think some of his limitations are purely of character and physical. Like if he would be 20 times more crafty, he could probably get away with his lack of foot speed or athleticism. If he would be generally more aggressive, then he wouldn't be hesitant so much, both on shooting and attacking in general. My main concern is that his deal is expiring soon, the Spurs will have to commit to him, and what's really his value? I couldn't even put a finger on it based on these 4 years. I'm sure there's more room to grow in shooting, making better decisions, maybe even bulking up a bit if you want to play him under the rim...

Dude had 4 years already.

The Spurs tried hard. Time to move on. His dad or uncle thinks the same.

[dabom]

The thing with all elite players that need time are players that can take over or show flashes of what they can do. I have yet to see anything like that from fathead. He is who he will always be.

[SAGirl]

Great post OP.

-Manu can still contribute if he were to come back next year but Pop and the lack of capable bench players is making him shoulder too much of the load. For this reason, maybe he should retire. Tbh, I'll accept any decision Manu makes, he's earned it.

-Tony on the other hand, I fully expect to be back with the team (because family, loyalty, PATFO, etc.) but hopefully on a role/contract that's fair and worth his current value: a 3rd string PG. I'm not sure how he'd react to a drastic paycut and an even more drastic role change so it's gonna be interesting to see what happens. I'm already bracing myself for his next contract.

-Disagree with Kyle. I think the 'project' has yielded positive results. He's decent but needs to be surrounded by shooters, and I mean good shooters, not the ones we have. On a good team with the right role, he could flourish. Whether that team is the Spurs remains to be seen but I think he's worth keeping for now.

-Agree about Danny. I'm one of the biggest Danny Green fans around here but it may finally be time to move on. He is getting up there in age and this team needs a little more firepower in the backcourt. I wouldn't mind keeping him for cheap but at this point in his career, I don't blame him if he's looking to get paid.

-We're stuck with Pau and Patty. The only thing we could do is hope Patty starts playing better and PATFO find another quality big or maybe even a big wing to take minutes from Pau and LMA.

-Finally, none of this matters until the Kawhi situation is cleared up.

Good impressions. Agree with this too. Thanks for sharing.

[Expert]

Spurs caught lightning in a bottle in 2013 and 2014, especially the latter.

Some part of me thinks Kawhi will reveal he was really in pain, that he wasn't going anywhere. He will get from the board for half a season and then they'll come around if he's ballin'.

Spurs have squeezed a lot of blood out of a turnip. It's easy to call it dry, but everyone has made that mistake countless times. Every season is a new opportunity. I'll have to see complete blow up level failure to count them out.

We just need a couple good outside shooters, a good PG, a real center and a superstar or two. That's about it.

[YGWHI]

You want me to quote Pop talking about Kawhi and "his group"? That wasn't a rumor. Kawhi sitting out almost the entire season is not a rumor. Kawhi in New York is not a rumor.

And there is still a entirely reasonable chance that he's sitting because he's injured, he's in NYC because he needs his doctors...

The Spurs have a huge economic decision to make in the summer with regards to Kawhi. That's not a rumor either. It has multi-year implications to the cap, etc.

Do you have any quotes from PATFO saying they're going to offer Kawhi the supermax? Once you do, let me know, I'll relax a bit because it means, at least, that Kawhi is healthy. Until then, it's all in the air.

The Spurs could take a decision about trading him in July, August, September, October, at next deadline...I wouldn't worry about this in APRIL.