Bowen second dirtiest player in the NBA according to his peers.

[Chris]

Add Mike James to the underrated list. Dude's a baller...

Someone mentioned something about who is the dirtiest Pistons fan. Richard Hamilton hands down takes the cake. Guy gets away with murder on offense.

As mentioned earlier Karl Malone is the king of dirty players and I've yet to seen anyone come close to dethroning him.

[Supergirl]

NEVER gotten a flagrant foul? i would LOVE for you to show me proof of that. that is VERY hard to believe. i cant recall 100%, but they may have given him a flagrant-1 after elbowing finley. i think the league reviewed it, and added a flagrant-1, along with a fine. i could be wrong, but im still gunna say that to say he NEVER has gotten a flagrant foul is bull .

I'd be very surprised if Bowen has ever gotten a flagrant - in my recollection, none of the Spurs have gotten one. Tim contested his first technical (or was it a flagrant) a couple years ago, and they withdrew it.

I don't know how I can prove this.

[Trifecta]

I agree that the SPURS need to toughen up in the interior -- they are soft .

When opposing players hit the ground, we are always there to extend a helping hand to pick them up -- commit a hard, clean foul and just walk away!

Opposing teams love to attack the Spurs interior especially when Duncan is out of the game because they can count on the fact that they will score or draw a foul on Mohammed.

I realize our SPURS are class people and they are who they are, but I wish they would just save the pleasantries for after the game!

[stretchman21]

I'm not responding directly to you, but to the rampant cries from Mavericks fans that Ginobili and Parker are somehow "overrated." If they played in Dallas, I suspect you'd have a very different opinion of each of them.

I don't know that anyone can objectively call either one a superstar, but they're clearly among the difference makers at their positions and they've each improved tremendously while in the league. Words like superstar and great are thrown around far too often for my taste. But each is clearly a star -- players aren't named to the All-Star team by the coaches on some lark; surely you can't doubt that it's an earned accomplishment and players who reach that level are deemed by those inside the game to be among the best at their positions. The fastidious obsession among Mavericks fans with downplaying the accomplishments of Parker and Ginobili is rather odd.

In real terms, Manu may be closer to being a superstar -- or may be considered a superstar by some analysts -- because he's been the dominant player on a team that has excelled in international play while also becoming an NBA All-Star and a 2 time champion in 3 NBA seasons. Say what you will, but that is an impressive resume. I doubt that many players would consider him overrated, because while his numbers don't dazzle, his ability to change games is as pronounced as anyone's. Kobe has hinted at that and certainly coaches like George Karl, Mike D'Antoni, and Larry Brown are keenly aware of Manu's abilities. You don't see any of those guys saying that he's overrated.

Parker is 23. He's an all-star at 23. After the last few playoff runs, he's been reamed in the media and by fans for being the weakest of the Spurs Big 3. He's responded by elevating his game and made himself into a force that can win games with or without Tim Duncan. For the time being, he's the most consistently excellent player on the team with the third best record in basketball. I don't know that anyone is arguing for his entry into the Hall of Fame quite yet, but his recognition as an all-star is anything but a fluke. Give credit where credit is due -- NBA players apparently do.

i never said anything about him being an all-star. that is great, although i personally thought other players deserved the spot more than he did. i think Carmello was more deserving. if it werent for injury, i would say corey maggette deserved it more than him. so did Jason Richardson.

and of course no coach is going to say anything about being overrated. i dont see anyone saying that Yao Ming is overrated, even though he is OBVIOUSLY overrated. come on now. thats just called class. we can say that kind of stuff and get away with that. they cant.

im not sure who all these mavs fans are, that you talk about are saying Parker and Ginobili is overrated. many of them praise them very highly here in dallas. this is just my personal opinion. being a mavs fan has nothing to do with it. i have always thought that they overachieve because of Tim Duncan. therefore, i believe that they are overrated. that team is garbage without Tim Duncan. if i recall, they were 7-6 without Duncan last year, and several of those wins came against ty teams like Toronto. so dont say that this team can win without Duncan. without Duncan, they are a 7th, maybe 8th seed team.

[stretchman21]

I'd be very surprised if Bowen has ever gotten a flagrant - in my recollection, none of the Spurs have gotten one. Tim contested his first technical (or was it a flagrant) a couple years ago, and they withdrew it.

I don't know how I can prove this.

well, your buddy said he got a flagrant from kicking wally in the face.

[Peter]

Didn't the Mavs have Fortson and Raja Bell on their team? Anyone recall Juwan Howard's clothesline of DA in 2001? That hurt the Spurs significantly in that postseason. How about when Bell threw that elbow in the playoffs?

Stop whining, Mav Fan. Did you cry when Jack and Kerr knocked you out of the '03 WCF? Man, that was sweet.

[stretchman21]

Add Mike James to the underrated list. Dude's a baller...

Someone mentioned something about who is the dirtiest Pistons fan. Richard Hamilton hands down takes the cake. Guy gets away with murder on offense.

As mentioned earlier Karl Malone is the king of dirty players and I've yet to seen anyone come close to dethroning him.

yea, Mike James is cold. houston was dumb for trading him.

[stretchman21]

Didn't the Mavs have Fortson and Raja Bell on their team? Anyone recall Juwan Howard's clothesline of DA in 2001? That hurt the Spurs significantly in that postseason. How about when Bell threw that elbow in the playoffs?

Stop whining, Mav Fan. Did you cry when Jack and Kerr knocked you out of the '03 WCF? Man, that was sweet.

yea, that "elbow" MISSED his face you moron. and to add to it, he got a technical for it. and what hurt the spurs was the Lakers. they owned their asses. YOU need to stop whining about a ing elbow that happened in 2001, you bag. what was sweet was Derek Fisher hitting a shot with 0.4 seconds left to beat you guys. THAT was sweet.

[Peter]

yea, that "elbow" MISSED his face you moron. and to add to it, he got a technical for it.

So he's not a dirty player because it didn't connect? That's redneck dumb.

and what hurt the spurs was the Lakers. they owned their asses. YOU need to stop whining about a ing elbow that happened in 2001, you bag. what was sweet was Derek Fisher hitting a shot with 0.4 seconds left to beat you guys. THAT was sweet.

The problem for you is, the Spurs actually have beat them in a postseason. Oh yeah, and they have 3 rings. How many do the Mavs have? (That's not counting Cuban's clit ring).

You cannot possibly be this stupid.

[implacable44]

Malone is definitely the dirtiest STAR ever (there may have been worse, but not among major players). Denying that elbow-swingin' sh!t-for-head a ring was one of the sweetest elements of the '04 le.

Bowen's "dirty" play, to me, just looks like using every millimeter of slack he can get from the refs to maximize his effectiveness on D, and it's REAL hard to argue with the results. Yeah, he'll get a little rough if the refs aren't looking, but when they draw the line, he just works with it.

As for the "dirtiest" Piston...I gotta say Rip won't hesitate to grab and hold on D if he can get away with it. Doesn't seem to have Bowen's sense for when the refs are looking and when they're not, though.

the dirtiest star ever - actually after reflecting on this topic - I give the nod as dirtiest to Shaq.

[island_dude]

Being a contributor to championship team doesn't deem someone a superstar. Duncan is the only player I would give that status to on the Spurs team, but who really cares if you're collecting rings.

The Pistons won a championship with no one consider a super star. It's nice to have at least one, but it's all about team play.

[stretchman21]

So he's not a dirty player because it didn't connect? That's redneck dumb.




The problem for you is, the Spurs actually have beat them in a postseason. Oh yeah, and they have 3 rings. How many do the Mavs have? (That's not counting Cuban's clit ring).

You cannot possibly be this stupid.

ok, so if someone throws one elbow, that instantly makes them a dirty player??? wow, Bowen must be a in mudbucket then.

yea, of course you go to the "3 rings" arguement. because YOU cant debate. the fact is, the Lakers OWNED the spurs when they went on their three-peat. and the spurs were just fortunate to beat the lakers in 02-03. then they again got owned in 03-04.

next...

[stretchman21]

Being a contributor to championship team doesn't deem someone a superstar. Duncan is the only player I would give that status to on the Spurs team, but who really cares if you're collecting rings.

The Pistons won a championship with no one consider a super star. It's nice to have at least one, but it's all about team play.

finally... someone with a brain.

[Dunc]

So he's not a dirty player because it didn't connect? That's redneck dumb.




The problem for you is, the Spurs actually have beat them in a postseason. Oh yeah, and they have 3 rings. How many do the Mavs have? (That's not counting Cuban's clit ring).

[island_dude]

The problem for you is, the Spurs actually have beat them in a postseason. Oh yeah, and they have 3 rings. How many do the Mavs have? (That's not counting Cuban's clit ring).

Yeah, we all know the Spurs have 3 and the Mavs have none. Let's wait and see what unfolds this season.

As far as your comment about Cuban, sounds like you know that from personal experience, or is that just some fantasy of yours?

[Dunc]

the dirtiest star ever - actually after reflecting on this topic - I give the nod as dirtiest to Shaq.

Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that, actually. Ever wonder if Shaq would have even made the NBA if he was, say, 6'9 and 240?

[implacable44]

finally... someone with a brain.

WHo cares ? - The MAvs don't even have 1 true superstar. I mean I guess you can call Dirk a superstar the same way that KG is a superstar -- but other than that who do you have ? Remember this my man - the Spurs are what the Mavs want to be. They copy the Spurs in every way.

[implacable44]

Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that, actually. Ever wonder if Shaq would have even made the NBA if he was, say, 6'9 and 240?

I wonder how he doesn't foul out of every game he plays in.

[Peter]

Man, he's a glutton for punishment.

ok, so if someone throws one elbow, that instantly makes them a dirty player??? wow, Bowen must be a in mudbucket then.

Sure, when it's aimed right at someone's dome. Bell's got a rep for being a dirty player.

yea, of course you go to the "3 rings" arguement.

OK, he's drifting back to sanity.

because YOU cant debate. the fact is, the Lakers OWNED the spurs when they went on their three-peat. and the spurs were just fortunate to beat the lakers in 02-03. then they again got owned in 03-04.

next...

Aren't you a Mavs fan? I can debate plenty. The Spurs have dropped your Mavs out of the postseason every time they faced them. There is no parallel. The Spurs have 3 rings from their postseason appearances. All you have is to nutride on another team because your favorite team is so pathetic.

[Chris]

So he's not a dirty player because it didn't connect? That's redneck dumb.




The problem for you is, the Spurs actually have beat them in a postseason. Oh yeah, and they have 3 rings. How many do the Mavs have? (That's not counting Cuban's clit ring).

Yeah thats easily the post of the week.

[Peter]

The problem for you is, the Spurs actually have beat them in a postseason. Oh yeah, and they have 3 rings. How many do the Mavs have? (That's not counting Cuban's clit ring).

Yeah, we all know the Spurs have 3 and the Mavs have none. Let's wait and see what unfolds this season.

Ah, "wait and see". The life of the ringless.

As far as your comment about Cuban, sounds like you know that from personal experience, or is that just some fantasy of yours?

Judging by his behavior it seems like a distinct possibility.

[island_dude]

WHo cares ? - The MAvs don't even have 1 true superstar. I mean I guess you can call Dirk a superstar the same way that KG is a superstar -- but other than that who do you have ? Remember this my man - the Spurs are what the Mavs want to be. They copy the Spurs in every way.

Who cares whether Dirk is a superstar or not. Like I said the Pistons proved you don't have to have a team loaded with superstars to win a le. In fact having too many ona team can be detrimental to team chemistry. Dallas learned that the hard way a couple of years ago, and Miami is learning it now.

I'll give the Spurs credit for surrounding Timmy with very good role players, but it's not like they have the patent on what they do. Also just because the Mavs are stressing defense more doesn't mean they're trying to be a clone of the Spurs. I know the Spurs are capable of being uptempo when needed, but they're still primarily a halfcourt offense, while the Mavs play more halfcourt than they use to, but still look for the uptempo game more so than the Spurs.

[leemajors]

Who cares whether Dirk is a superstar or not. Like I said the Pistons proved you don't have to have a team loaded with superstars to win a le. In fact having too many ona team can be detrimental to team chemistry. Dallas learned that the hard way a couple of years ago, and Miami is learning it now.

I'll give the Spurs credit for surrounding Timmy with very good role players, but it's not like they have the patent on what they do. Also just because the Mavs are stressing defense more doesn't mean they're trying to be a clone of the Spurs. I know the Spurs are capable of being uptempo when needed, but they're still primarily a halfcourt offense, while the Mavs play more halfcourt than they use to, but still look for the uptempo game more so than the Spurs.

where did the little general earn his stripes again?

[implacable44]

The thing is with Parker the Spurs half court set is just as up-tempo as the Mavs running - The Spurs can play with you however you want to play. If you want to run then Finley, parker and manu can run all day -- you want to slow it down and they can score in their half-court sets. I know it is hard to be a Mavs fan dude - I know - I live up here and listen to this garbage sports talk apologist radio. I know how frustrating it is to lose and lose and lose in the playoffs every year. I hear the pain - it is hard to root for a good team that can't win it all -every year faced with disappointment. The mavs are a lot like the Jazz of the 90's -- good team - win lots of games every year and then fall on their face in the playoffs. You have no answer for TD and until you do -- You will keep losing and venting your frustrations with comments like " wait until next year" or "lets see what happens this year". When what you really mean is " why cant we beat those damn spurs.

[Kori Ellis]

Sweet.. This poll just proves that Bowen is in his opponent's heads.

Mission Accomplished.