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my thoughts exactly.
my thoughts exactly.
Why not just do like Mexico does to Illegal Immigrants in THEIR country from Guatemala and El Salvador?
Beat the Men, Rape the Women, and steal every penny they have on them?
Sounds good huh?
Not.
Cite the figures. I see no compassion in you.
MAtters what you mean? Illegal aliens work many jobs like ;gardening, and construction, etc, that pays under the table with cash. ANd the whole
"well the pay sales taxes too?" Is pretty stupid. Just because one pays sales taxes, which are state taxes, doesn't mean that they are contributing like other legal immigrants. Sales taxes mean squat. even bums pay sales taxes for liquor.
You know why it's overpriced? Maybe because we have many uninsured illegals going clogging the hospitals with industrial accidents, as well as recieving free natal care because they want to have their children born here so that they can recieve benefits. WHo the foots the bill when an illegal doesnt pay up? WE do.With regards to healthcare don't even get me started on that issue.... the underlying problem in that system is that everything is overpriced; medicines, services, treatments, appointments... etc... AND a large chunk of that particular financial burden on the government stems from high medical pricing (a market not driven by supply and demand) moreso than from the numbers of people (illegal or not) requiring aid.
They the illegals are not our people, we should keep them out seeing how they are draining the social programs from our own people who actually need those oppurtunities.It does when you consider their motives.... If I'm the desperate person in your example and can't feed my children what makes you think I would want to wait 2 years and spend up to a year's worth of my salary on obtaining legal permission???
The problem is not as simple as you have defined it.
So we spend more money.... to keep people out as opposed to spending it on and for the people...
WHy do you think that there is a 40% unemployment for African american males in inner cities with huge illegal alien populations? BEcuase they have to compete with someone who will work for 35-50% less.
WHy should we only give out amnesty and have open border policies towards mexicans? Would you advocate open borders for those of MID Eastern countries who have extremist ideologies and a totally different viewpoint of civilization. Would you open the flood gates to them, and risk having america change severely? I bet not. And we cannot support everyone in the world nor are we obliged to take them in.
WHy dont you allow hobos to enter your house and have you take care of them. Not just one, but maybe 4 or even 11 hobos? Is it possible to do so? NO. But if one is to be charitous one can only strive to keep his own home in good harmony first and foremost.
When we allow amnesty for illegal aliens, we are rewarding illegal behavior and are screwing our own brothers of our house who will have to compete with the demand for social services.
Dumb comparison. THe berlin wall seperated a country that was established before the wall was implemented.Building a wall???? Have we come to such hypocrisy??? Remember Berlin?
Building a wall on our border is totally different.
I guess you're defending of the status quo , of having a bogus immigration agency who is supposed to handle illegal border crossing, and an artificial border, is a whole lot saintlier.Deportation of criminals was never in debate...
A massive deportation like the one you describe would cost considerably more money than the money supposedly vanishing from our reserves on account of goverment aid to 'illegals'.
Embrace yourself for $5/gal milk, $5/doz of eggs, $3 heads of lettuce, $5/lb grapefruit and oranges.... not to mention the fact that plumbers, roof-repairers, gardeners, would cost more money to hire... and that the $/sq-ft of construction would likely go up by 20% or more....
If you have the 'money' to swallow all of those unneccesary inflations just realize that not all of us do.
But this is where you are wrong.
Illegals come over here under dire cir stances. Having a sweepstakes like process that puts alot of illegals in danger over here rather than just making the process virtually impossible only ends up hurting those wishing to cross over here, and kills any incentive for the neighboring country to ever get better and care for its own citizens.
WHy should you support having people living here under a serf style system. If you are gonna have illegals over here, you might as well give them the right to vote. Why exploit them?
While I despise illegals there are many deadbeat Americans who don't pay their medical bills.
second that
Must not be homeowners. Every time I look at the tax bill from
Bexar county....oh never mind. They even have an appointment system
for the illegals and said they will never turn one away, no matter what
the law. But, I still have to pay the taxes to support them.
Someone's gotta pay for the social services the illegals receive. If they are paid in $ then they're not paying into programs such as SS and Medicare. I'm not opposed to anyone moving to this country and being willing to work a job for low pay, but who's going to pay for the social services and benefits they receive? Between SS, Medicare, public schools, hospitals, etc...you are looking at a rather significant amount of public $. The immigration process needs some kind of rationalization at this point. That means taxing what the current illegals make and normalizing their status. That also means tougher enforcement of payroll taxes on employers. Even after paying taxes the average illegal is still far better off than if they hadn't crossed the border.
In general, do I want to be taxed to pay for someone's kids to be educated and their healthcare and what not when their earnings aren't taxed? no. Some of you act as though you don't pay any tax.
You raise a valid point. Just what do their unreported wages equal when you add in all the free "en lement" crap they reap once they're here?
I'm not going to get into a 'social' argument with you simply because you refuse to see people as people unless they are tagged with adjectives first.
And you are completely misreading my points..... I'm not saying, nor clammoring for the status quo to remain as it is... The problem is massive, complex, and ridiculously difficult to solve with any one piece of legislation. If you can't see that... then building 'the wall' is probably the most cowardly, and das ly option your camp can provide.
BTW you need to check your statistics.... in fact, I'm sure the Census Bureau is curious to know how you've obtained such fanciful facts (as they are difficult to come by).
Yes, illegals draw upon 'social' money from the government... but sadly that is all your proponents can see $$$$$$$$$$. And when you mention the costs of 'being born' as a drain on the social system while trying to refute an argument that medical costs are fine where they are... then your perspective really comes into focus. (On a side note: one of my reforms for helping improve our Healthcare system involves eliminating healthcare fraud. MIT developed a full-proof, non-intrusive, lie detector test which would allow insurance agencies to lower their premiums on account of eliminating fraudulent claims... if and when such a system were implemented in court. The system would also diminish vehicle insurance premiums, since many-a-times their high rates are affected by people claiming additional burdens not really there... BTW trust me when I say that this detector works... )
Migrant workers (illegal & legal) do the work that NO one wants to do... and despite your incessant discrediting that they don't pay taxes.. well sad to break your bubble but they do pay taxes. I'd be willing to bet that more than half of illegal workers work with a phony SSNs which force them to pay taxes that unlike you or me will never get to see again. It is those phony numbers which take their employers 'off-the-hook'... is it right? NO... but that is what is going on.
The only point you bring out which has any validity to it is that the problem must be solved... but that was hardly a no-brainer. The point is that workers should not be exploited nor subjugated to harsh working conditions.... A high influx of migrant workers only points to a supply and demand void that the US market fills with people who leave their homelands in search of a better future... Ironically your example of our very own urban based workforce which wouldn't typically move to Oregon to pick Strawberries and would rather take a government check to counter immigration is sad at best.
The most basic of social ills is laziness.... and unfortunately for your camp, that is one trait illegal workers don't have. Though I will concede that many times, 2nd and 3rd generation families become dependent on the government... though that is by no means the rule.
What in the world does compassion have to do with illegal acts by
these people? I feel for them, but let them stay home and make their
government do something for them, not the US of A.
Precisely the fact that you are labeling their attempts at improving their lifestyles as a felony act. That and the fact that you feel economically threatened by their arrival.... they are people.
They are violating our law. I feel no threat, economically, or otherwise.
And who in the world said they weren't people? I am saying, let them
get their government to do something in their own
country. Do not depend on us to bail them out of their situation.
It is lazy on your intellect to tag your argument superior to mine becuase you equate citizenship to anything with a beating heart sans the being born in the US part.
Even though i have acknowledged that they're humans, does not make me a monster because i wish to prevent a constant flow of unchecked illegals come into this country. Not all who cross here are saints. Some are criminals and some dont contribute by ending up in gangs along Cali and Texas. ALot of the crime in the southwest has had to do with large illegal immigration populations.
Everheard of the MExican Mafia gang, almost all of them are illegal aliens, and they are the majority in most prisons down here.
IF we were to put up a wall, then God strike us all with lightning for wanting to secure our border. I guess being a Good Samaritan goes far beyond helping our own. Not to ignore the fact that we already lead the world in aid. BUt now we're supposed to adopt masses of peoples.
Let me ask you something? If these were palestinians and not mexicans, would you still stand where you are?
Is Israel sinful for putting up a wall, and yet in the bible God instructed The prophets and Nehemiah to build walls for protection.
Now i'm not advocating mandatory christian prayers at 3 am facing the east every day in the same sentence. But if you are going to be using emotional pseudo morality to trump logic and reasoning, then i might as well use some of your own medicine.
Besides, why the do we have borders? why have laws for immigrations.
You cannot say you are going to toughen on immigration and fix it, when your actions and words only encourage it.
Do many of these people deserve to come here to get a better life? Ofcourse!
But do they deserve more consideration than perhaps even more dire and desperate people of third world nations becuase your ethnicity happens to be mexican? Heck no!!
Let's make coming into this country fair to start with.
LEt's start enforcing the border and immi laws.
LEt's make the naturalization and immigration process easier to placate the need for buisinesses to use cheap labor.
But then theres the rub. Once they become citizens, then they too deserve the same benefits as us. ANd then there lies the problem.
IF it wasnt for cheap labor and exploitation, we would have solved this problem aeons ago. But people like you have been suckered into this whole "lets be charitable and allow for desperate illegals to be exploited... it's better than their shack nation,,and consequences be damned"
Read the following for some of the facts. And show a little
compassion for the American worker, okay!
U.S. workers and taxpayers pay heavy price for illegal immigration
By Phyllis Schlafly
Apr 24, 2006
Illegal immigrants in this country are threatening a massive boycott on May 1, purportedly to demonstrate they are so essential that the U.S. economy would shut down without their labor. On the contrary, such a boycott will expose the lie expressed by President George W. Bush in Cancun, Mexico, that they are "doing work that Americans will not do."
According to the Pew Hispanic Center, illegal immigrants make up less than 5 percent of the U.S. labor force. If every one of the 20 million illegal aliens in our country plays hooky from his job on May 1, the overwhelming majority of those same types of jobs will be worked by millions of U.S. citizens.
All over America, U.S. citizens will flip hamburgers in fast-food shops, wash dishes in restaurants, change sheets in hotels, mow lawns, trim shrubs, pick produce, drive taxis, replace roofs on houses, and do all kinds of construction work. Americans are quite willing to work unpleasant, menial, tiresome and risky jobs, but not for Third World wages.
An employment service in Mobile, Ala., recently received an "urgent request" to fill 270 job openings from contractors who were hired to rebuild and clear areas of Alabama devastated by Hurricane Katrina. The agency immediately sent 70 laborers and construction workers to three job sites.
After two weeks on the job, the men were fired by employers who told them "the Mexicans had arrived" and were willing to work for lower wages. The U.S. citizens had been promised $10 an hour, but the employers preferred Mexicans who would work for less. Employment agency manager Linda Swope told The Washington Times: "When they told the guys they would not be needed, they actually cried ... and we cried with them. This is a shame."
Swope said that employment agencies throughout Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi all face similar problems because an estimated 30,000 men from Mexico and Central and South America, many in crowded buses and trucks, came into those three states after Hurricane Katrina, willing to work for less than whatever was paid to U.S. citizens.
Meanwhile, President Bush signed the Katrina Emergency Assistance Act extending for 13 weeks the unemployment benefits to U.S. citizens displaced by Katrina. Thus employers get the benefit of cheap foreign labor while you and I provide taxpayer handouts to workers whom the government allowed to be displaced from the jobs they were eager to take.
There is no penalty on employers who replace U.S. citizens with illegal immigrants at lower pay. Homeland Security even announced it has suspended the sanctioning of employers who hire illegal immigrants, and President Bush suspended the Davis-Bacon Act, which requires local contractors to pay "prevailing" wages.
A study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research reported that the surge of immigration in the 1980s and 1990s lowered the wages of our own high school dropouts by 8.2 percent. The surge has accelerated since that report was issued. The Congressional Budget Office reported that 60 percent of Mexican and Central American workers in the United States in 2004 lacked a high school diploma.
The Kennedy-McCain-Bush guest worker plan would import more uneducated, unskilled workers, and thereby deny our own high school dropouts (of whom we have too many) the opportunity to get started in building their lives in the labor force. U.S. citizens are threatened that the cost of lettuce will rise precipitously if we don't continue to import Mexican agricultural workers. But a farm worker gets only 6 or 7 cents out of a $1 head of lettuce, so even if the pay doubles, consumers would hardly notice the difference.
On the other hand, the costs taxpayers are forced to pay for social benefits for low-paid workers are astronomical. The National Research Council reports that an immigrant to the United States without a high-school diploma consumes $89,000 more in government services than he pays in taxes during his lifetime.
Low-paid illegal immigrants obviously pay very little taxes, but they cash in on all sorts of benefits paid by other taxpayers, such as schooling for their children, emergency health care, housing subsidies, Earned Income Tax Credit and law enforcement. If the 20 million illegal immigrants are legalized, they will also become eligible for Medicaid, and that's a real break-the-bank prospect.
These figures don't even count the rapidly growing underground economy, in which millions of illegal immigrants are paid off the books in cash. That enables both employer and employee to avoid paying taxes, and enables employers to avoid paying workers' compensation, unemployment compensation, and assorted other taxes.
If the Internal Revenue Service collected all the taxes that should be paid by the underground economy, our current budget deficit would disappear overnight, according to a Bear Stearns study released in 2005. The Americans who pay taxes are giving a free ride to those who are not paying taxes, and a 7-cent increase in the price of lettuce should not be on our worry list.
Phyllis Schlafly is the President and Founder of the Eagle Forum.
Copyright © 2006 Copley News Service
Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...24/194910.html
Amnesty is not an option and how anyone can support this President on this is beyond me.
Multiple personalities can be funny at times, but you sir are annoying to say the least.
What's annoying is when somebody assumes they know what they are talking about.
Multiple personalities can be funny at times, but you sir are annoying to say the least.
I made the point that Amnesty is not acceptable and I don't support the President on this issue. Sorry if stating my opinion is annoying to you. Get a life.
I agree. Bush is losing support amongst staunch conservatives on this issue and I'm sure that is annoying as to him. He needs to step up to the plate on this.
We're learning that in Washington, big business is the only voice that matters. Ordinary people have no say.
Big business wants cheap labor. The people who run big business don't suffer from illegal immigration. They see only the gains from reduced cost and higher productivity. Their kids go to private schools that don't get overcrowded. They go to their own private hospitals that turn away immigrants who try to go to the emergency room. They live in areas where their taxes don't have to subsidize the burden of migrant laborers on social services. Their neighborhoods have gated entrances so they can control who comes in and out, and only have to see undo ented workers when they come to clean their houses and do their landscaping.
They get to pay illegals peanut wages, and if the illegals complain about anything, they have no rights, so the company can have them deported.
So they get their cheap labor, they get compliant workers, and they can foist all the costs and problems upon the rest of us. And since they control both parties in Washington, they can keep the status quo, no matter how upset voters get, because if we vote for the alternative, the new boss is the same as the old boss.
That's our American republic.
You think any of these staunch conservatives are going to vote Democrat next election? They may be mad at the President but, I doubt they'd ever get mad enough to vote for a Democrat who, more than likely, agrees with the parts of the Bush plan that made them mad in the first place.
It shows you this though, the President acts on principal and not on what he thinks will make him popular with the party. I don't agree with him on much of the immigration issue but I'll be damned if I'll ever believe John Kerry, Al Gore, or Howard Dean would do any better.
And there lies the fallacy in all the liberal cheering over the President's lagging poll numbers. Sure, it shows his base isn't all that happy with him but, that doesn't mean you can jump to the conclusion they're going to switch parties over it.
Last edited by Yonivore; 04-25-2006 at 02:20 PM.
You are so right. Bush ratings are low, but Congress ratings are even
lower. The dimm-o-craps have do-diddly-squat on their side. And
even Mexico recognizes they have a problem by telling everyone to
cool it, don't do anything 1 May. Bush has always had that Lib streak
just like his Father. But I voted for him as Governor and President cause
I don't want a out and out Lib. Amnesty if granted by the government
will come back to haunt them all.
Listen buddy.
Illegal immigration needs to be curbed.... It MUST be regulated... i.e. enforced. The problem needs to be addressed. Human exploitation needs to be abolished while trying to balance and meet the demand for unskilled/laborious work.
If you haven't understood that from my posts, then that is your problem.
My problem with your position is that you are basing too much of your argument on the assumption that many the migrant workers are criminals... which is not only inflammatory but incorrect. This supposition hurts any other point you try to make even if and while they are valid concerns. Again, your severely skewed perspective is negating your other arguments from coming out as unbiased views... to the point where hearing 'Let's build a wall' is coming off as 'racial' moreso than the 'security-issue' cover-up you are trying to base it on....
I don't recall Timothy McVeigh being of Mexican descent... or for that matter any of the terrorists.
All the other ifs... and Palestinian references in your post are deemed irrelevant in this light...
Again. I'm not clamoring for the mass deportation of illegal immigrants or for their amnesty.... neither is a pratical option.
Dumbya's approval ratings could be at 90% and I still wouldn't vote for no repugnant. I believe them as far as I could throw Tom Delay's lying ass.
Yoni is just pissed because his libertarian party ain't got a chance in of ever winning any election.
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