Exactly. On some teams retired numbers' roster is a joke.
Like the Blazers, with their one le, have retired the hallowed names of Dave Twardzik, Larry Steele, and Lloyd Neal. This is what I'd like the Spurs to avoid.
The Jazz have retired Pete Maravich (you gonna argue that one?), Darrell Griffith (Rookie of the Year and was the all-time leading Jazz scorer until Malone/Stockton), and Mark Eaton (most overrated defensive player of all time, if you ask me, but he's got the awards). Since I don't see Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornacek, the Jazz are actually being quite selective.
Finally, if you're going to say AJ and Sean should definitely have their numbers retired (which is a strong argument since Moore got his), then I will say that Larry Kenon and Mike Mitc should get theirs retired first.
They should really honor more of the older group of Spur players before putting in the recent crop. Ones like Olberding, Paultz, Gale, etc. But you can bet anything they'll put up a special banner for Pop when he finally steps down (soon I hope). If they do, the old spurs fans should because if they do that, they should put up ones for Doug Moe and Stan Albeck.
Why? Given you've seen them play more than I have, but looking over their resume ... I just don't see it.Finally, if you're going to say AJ and Sean should definitely have their numbers retired (which is a strong argument since Moore got his), then I will say that Larry Kenon and Mike Mitc should get theirs retired first.
Kenon played only five seasons for the Spurs. He had impressive scoring averages but the team was averaging over 115 points per game. Translate his averages to today's game and he'd come back down to earth. Plus those five years he was on the Spurs, the team averaged less than 50 wins per season.
Mitc was a nice player, but he was the main option on the worst teams in franchise history. His winning percentage while he was on the Spurs was way less the .500. If we retire his number, we might as well retire Dominique Wilkins #21 as well.
To get your numbers retired, you should have to be good to great player on a winning team. AJ and Elliott brought the city it's first championship and layed the foundation for the rest of the les the Spurs win. Without those two, the Spurs never win in '99 ... and without that experience, the Spurs don't win in '03.
No one ever believed that little ol' San Antonio could win a championship. The town was too small, there was an NBA biased against former ABA teams, Robinson didn't want it enough, blah blah blah. AJ believed and his sole purpose was revolved around the team winning the championship. That's why he had the team practicing every summer. He forced the players to go Houston and workout the whole summer with him. He helped Pop learn how to coach a championship team. He didn't do all that for any reason other than he wanted to win a ring.
And he did.
AJ was the weak link for all those frustrating years the Spurs got knocked out by Utah, Golden State, Phoenix, Houston. He was the turnstile that KJ, Hardaway, Stockton blew past while I banged my head on the wall.
The Spurs won in '99 because they had two guys among the twenty or so greatest post players of all time who were near prime. More than half the PGs in the league at the time could have taken the '99 Spurs to the championship and many of them done it better than AJ did.
AJ is the best argument I can think of for offering Parker a max contract. Otherwise Spurs run the risk of having Duncan spend the rest of his career with a PG like AJ.
Last edited by picnroll; 10-04-2004 at 08:48 PM.
For all of you who still can't wrap their minds around the case for AJ's number being retired, keep read timvp's post over again a couple times. Maybe it will sink in eventually.
Well, the Spurs didn't have any of those other point guards. Those other point guards weren't exactly demanding to be traded to San Antonio, either. AJ was here - and it was his desire and fire that got them to a championship level.
Blaming past years playoff failures on AJ is overly simplistic, and you know it, picnroll .
Saint David gets no blame? Give me a f***ing break. If only DRob had half the heart and passion for the game that Avery Johnson did.AJ was the weak link for all those frustrating years the Spurs got knocked out by Utah, Golden State, Phoenix, Houston.
I'd wager the majority of those wins have come since the beginning of the DRob era...and they'd probably be in 2nd place if they had a better PG than AJ.
Maybe the Spurs would have won a le if they had a superstar who would show up in the playoffs for a change.
Oh wait, they drafted one in 1997.
My god you're an idiot.
Oh really? Perhaps you and your stuffed Coyote doll believe that DRob was some kind of big game player but in reality that was not the case.
Also, the thought of you referring to anyone else as an "idiot" is rich.
Yeah he sure wasn't...which is probably why AJ couldn't lead any other god damn team to anything in the playoffs.
What games were you watching? AJ always held his own with Stockton in the playoffs. Penny Hardaway? WTF ... when did he ever matchup against him in the playoffs?He was the turnstile that KJ, Hardaway, Stockton blew past while I banged my head on the wall.
KJ ... um, did you watch the '97-98 playoffs? AJ dominated KJ, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash, including 30 points and 7 assists in the clinching game. For the series he averaged over 20 points per game against the best three point guards to ever play together.
Please check you facts. Don't let time blur your memory.
Last edited by timvp; 10-04-2004 at 11:53 PM.
Um, no one is claiming that AJ was a superstar.
The way some of you talk about this short you'd think he was the second coming of Mohammed, Allah, Buddah, and Jesus Christ all rolled into one and that it was because of him the Spurs won a championship.
For Spurs basketball he was. Usually a team's most compe ive player is their star (ie Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley) but the Spurs unforunately did not have that.
You must not have been paying attention back in the day.
uh, yeah. That's exactly what we're saying.
Go take a Marcus...cause your eyes are brown cause you're so full of .
Avery was nowhere near the most compe ive Spur. David Robinson carried that little worm on his back to the playoffs. Without David, AJ would have had nothing...and wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs.
Ha. Now I know you really weren't paying attention.
Duff, you are lacking clue on this subject.
no .
the brother's got a point. there are a few of us who understand the long history of success this franchise has enjoyed...and it looks to keep going for awhile. Why not reward those players who delivered on the court and made SA their home and were part of the community off the court. Stats do not tell the whole story on what a player was worth to a franchise.
Since we already retired Moore's jersey, I think it's fine to retire AJ's and Elliott's as well. I would actually give Elliott the nod long before AJ, since Elliott was an All-Star a couple of times and averaged 20+ ppg, but AJ is fine as well since he was a staple at PG throughout the 90's.
Calling AJ "the heart and soul of the Spurs" is a bit of a stretch, Marcus and timvp. If it makes you feel better to assume that AJ made the Spurs go, so be it, but DRob was the overwhelming reason we were successful throughout the 90's. Marcus, you seem to enjoy saying that DRob wouldn't have any rings without Tim, but Tim wouldn't have any rings right now if it weren't for DRob either.
It's interesting to see how you've gone from almost never bashing DRob to bashing him on a regular basis, Marcus. Were you purposely waiting until he had been retired for awhile before criticizing him, or have you recently changed your mind about him? You're almost as bad as Iceman Cometh now.
AJ was the heart and soul of that Spurs team in the 1990s. DRob was the most talented player, but that is different.
First and foremost, I am a Spurs fan. David Robinson had his flaws. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit them since there has only been one man ever who was perfect, and it wasn't DRob.
Manu was also suppose to wear #13 before. I remember him in Sports Illustrated with his Spurs jersey but it was #13. Why did he change it?
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