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Definantly. Ben desrves it more. I just hope 12 million will be fine for him. It would make him the highest payed Piston.
Maybe this season, but you can't tell me that about 2005. He was 12 minutes from being the runaway choice for Finals MVP. Wallace played the series of his life. He's one year removed from it. For someone who comes through like that in a series of that magnitude, you pay him $15 million if he wants $15 million. Maybe not 5 years (I'd prob still do it, but I can see the problem there), but for 4 I'd do it in a second.
Definantly. Ben desrves it more. I just hope 12 million will be fine for him. It would make him the highest payed Piston.
Billups will opt out of that last year no matter what. He's an all-star being paid only $6.8 million in 2007. He should command at least $8-$9 million starting as a FA.
terry got 50 million
billups is worth that if not more
Thanks... I'll check them out.
If we pay Ben 15-16 million then we can't increase CB's pay much either. I just hope both guys agree to stay for a slight increase and to have shots at championships.
I thought Ben was ineffective in that series. Until this year, that was one of the worst playoff series of his Pistons career. Of course, he deserved Finals MVP in 2004 over Billups...
...who, by the way, is not worth more than JET Terry.
I know many Piston fans feel this way.
But I disagree.
I'm not big on paying a guy based on past preformances. This is a league in which players are payed upon potential. Ben future is not as great as Chauncey's. So why pay him more? Out of loyalty? Because he played way above his play level for many years? Not in my book.
I may be mistaken, and I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Ben had an opportunity to opt out of his contract a couple of years ago, and he chose not to. He could have then gotten a multiple year, big payday. That was his decision.
IMO Chauncey is and will be more of a focal point in our future than Ben can and therefore deserves more financial backing than Ben. Signing Ben now to a 4 or 5 year deal hurts us much more that signing Chauncey next year to a 4 or 5 yr deal.
Yes he is.
Unfortuanately, i don't see that happening. Billups ego is huge. He'll want to get paid. Much the same of what Ben is doing right now. But Chauncey likes Flip (providing he's still here) so maybe not.
I disagree. I'd have voted Billups for the MVP last year in the Finals.
I don't know if it got much play in SA last year, but after game 2, one of the big stories was that Ben's wife told him that he wasn't being Ben. He wasn't playing with the typical Ben Wallace effort that has made him who he is in the NBA. She had to tell him to step up in the Finals. That's wrong on so many levels. He didn't show up at all for those 2 games in SA.
I look at that event, along with this years refusal to enter a game in Orlando, and his finger pointing in this years playoffs as negatives in his at iude.
Ben's always been a grumpy kinda guy. He argued w/ Carlisle and LB before any tiffs he had w/ Flip.
Add that to the obvious decline in his performances and I say his future is tainted to some extent.
I'll have my Chicago Wallace jersy in reserve
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. Ben is worth every penny, and he hates Flip. Chicago seems like a team built for him. A defensive minded coach, guards who already play SOME D (he can cover for any deficiancies they might have) and a gapeing hole at center.
Bonzi is not a replacement I think. In theory, if rumors have any truth to them, Bonzi may take the MLE to play with 'Sheed again. So signing both is not out of the realm of possibility.
Bulls think big . . . Big Ben
Paxson, Skiles meet with Pistons' Wallace in Detroit
Published July 2, 2006, 12:11 AM CDT
John Paxson came through Saturday on his promise to think big in free agency.
The Bulls' general manager and coach Scott Skiles visited the Pistons' Ben Wallace, the biggest name in free agency, in Detroit on the first day teams could have discussions with available players.
Paxson declined to comment on the meeting with the 6-foot-9-inch, 240-pound defensive ace, who was expected to be the Bulls' top target as they decide how to spend about $15 million they have available under the NBA's salary cap.
The attempt may be in vain unless the Bulls are willing to give Wallace a five-year deal, and there is good reason for the Bulls to avoid such an offer.
Teams could be reluctant to give Wallace a contract longer than four years because of the league's "over-36" rule, which stipulates that salary payable after a player turns 36 is prorated over the previous seasons and counts against the salary cap in those seasons. Wallace will be 32 on Sept. 10 and a four-year deal would expire just before his 36th birthday.
Efforts to reach Wallace's agent, Arn Tellem, were unsuccessful.
Without a five-year deal, Wallace might not have enough incentive to leave Detroit, which he helped win an NBA le in 2004. He is a four-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year, and with him Detroit has advanced to the NBA Finals twice.
Apparently, the Bulls are the only team seriously in the running for Wallace. Other teams with salary-cap space—Atlanta, Charlotte and Toronto—have not shown significant interest. Philadelphia reportedly contacted Tellem, but the 76ers are over the cap and could obtain Wallace only in a sign-and-trade with the Pistons.
Joe Dumars, the Pistons' general manager, has said his No. 1 priority is to re-sign Wallace. The Pistons are expected to offer Wallace a four-year escalating contract that will pay him between $11 million and $12 million next season to make him the team's highest-paid player in 2006-07.
The Bulls probably would have to beat it handily to get Wallace to leave his comfort zone in Detroit. He would take their available funds and then some, which is why it would be surprising if the Bulls did it.
The signing date on extensions and free-agent contracts is July 12.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...ck=1&cset=true
My reasoning is partly based on past performances, but i also don't see Ben's future being that bleak. Look at Alonzo Mourning. He takes care of his body like Ben and he's still playing at a high level (not starter minutes granted). Ben's performance this year was bad, but i think it was b/c of his lack of any offensive role, and unhappiness with our defense/coach more than him "breaking down".
Brown always found a way to get Ben involved and keep him involved. We all know how sensitive Ben is, and i guess he didn't really feel like part of the team this year. Being benched in the 4th quarter of the ECF Game 6 will do that to ya.
I'm not really sure about this either. I remember Dumars talking to Ben about an extension and Ben saying don't worry about it. But i don't think that's the time your talking about.I may be mistaken, and I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Ben had an opportunity to opt out of his contract a couple of years ago, and he chose not to. He could have then gotten a multiple year, big payday. That was his decision.
I agree with this point. Logically, Chauncey is the less risky deal. I have issues with Chauncey and the way he plays sometimes, but agree he's important. I just disagree about how important.IMO Chauncey is and will be more of a focal point in our future than Ben can and therefore deserves more financial backing than Ben. Signing Ben now to a 4 or 5 year deal hurts us much more that signing Chauncey next year to a 4 or 5 yr deal.
I don't see Chauncey having the impact that Ben does on the team. And without Ben, i don't see us being that great. You can insert another talented point guard in Chauncey's place and i don't think the drop-off would be that much.
Ben's irreplaceable to me. Chauncey's not. I guess that's why i see Ben being more deserving of the money.
Ben has been slipping for a couple years now. His wife has to get his mind back in the game sometimes. Maybe he needs change of scenery, but maybe he needs to quit too. $75 mill is too much to pay for him IMO. Seems Pistons imploded a little last play-offs.
Ben Wallace sucked in the first two games and was the main culprit of putting Detroit in the 0-2 hole. He played well from then on out but Billups would have gotten back-to-back Finals MVP awards.
Yes, it was Ben that was outplayed by Nazr in the first 2 games. Essentially killing any chance we had of taking the series (can't fall down 2-0 to a team like the Spurs and expect to win). This year I'm guessing we would have given the Heat a better fight if Ben didn't play. For some reason he is sturbborn about double teaming his man, and he's allergic to getting fouls, so he's the worst guy you could ever put on Shaq. I'd rather do Center by committee like Dallas did. Dale Davis and Kelvin Cato were just sitting there collecting dust.... annoying.
"We all know how sensitive Ben is"
Isn't this just a nice way of saying that Ben is a big baby? Maybe I'm being a little mean, but I have grown a little tired of his whining.
In regards to Ben being sat in game 6, I have to attribute that to Bens worse than poor Free Throw shooting. He's simpy a liability at the end of games.
As for the main part of your post, I'll admit to being lazy and I'm just going to simply paste a previous post I made on the topic of Ben's desire to be more involved offensivley.
Quote:
Flip doesn't trust Ben at all on offense and that sucks. I hate LB, but at least he was getting Ben to make the opposing team gaurd him.
Twice this year, I heard Ben say that Coach Lowe has taken him out of the offense. I don't know if it's really Flip or Lowe or both....but in either case, I somewhat agree with them.
Ben is a liability on offense. He doesn't possess any semblance of a shooters touch. His post moves are terrible. He usually fakes himself out more than his opponent when he attempts backing someone down. His coordination is not very good either. How many times have you seen him have difficulty catching a pass and going up with it? So often he loses the ball......much like a receiver looking up field before he ever has possesion.
I would love for our starting center to be able to contribute offensively. It could open up all of our other players, and make them more effective. However, Ben is not that player. Sure, throw him a bone every now and then ... but that's more to stop his ing, than being a good offensive decision.
Quote:
In 05 Ben had 4 20 point games and he had 9.7 ppg. under Flip he only averages 4.7 ppg and shoots around 3 shots per game.
Actually, those numbers are wrong. you got his numbers for last year correctly, but completely misrepresented his numbers for this year.
2003-2004: Under LB
points per game
9.5
shots made / attempted
3.9 / 9.2
2004-2005: Under LB
points per game
9.7
shots made / attempted
4.0 / 8.8
2005-2006: Under Flip
points per game
7.3
shots made / attempted
2.9 / 5.7
Clearly this shows us that LB did indeed utilize Ben more in the offensive scheme implemented at that time.
But there is still more that can be learned from the numbers.
Under LB Ben had 3.3 more shots per game than while playing for Flip. And yet his scoring suffered only 2.3 points per game. In fact Flip greatly improved his efficiency.
Shooting %
2003-2004:
42.1%
2004-2005:
45.3%
2005-2006
51%
Under LB he shot an average of 43.6% and 51% under Flip. That's a nice improvement. Flip cut down on alot of the silly attempts that Ben used to take. And at the same time implemented plays designed to be high percentage opportunities for him.
The Alley-oop play that has been run for him was awesome. Rip curled to the corner, drew the defender and simply puts it up for Ben to get a WIDE OPEN dunk. That play worked from the beginning to the end of the season.
Another factor to me, apart from who is coaching and/or what their philosophies may be, is the overall decline of Bens #'s.
Average under LB:
Rebounds - 12.25
Blocks - 2.7
Minutes - 36.9
FT% - 45.9%
Under Flip:
Rebounds - 11.3
Blocks - 2.2
Minutes - 35.2
FT% - 41.6%
Overall Ben did not have one of his best years statistically. Is that due to age? Effort? or Coaching? Likely all 3 played their own part.
Blocks and rebounds have made Ben who he is. It's a reflection of effort. Yet this year those stats were down.....in conjustion with his shots. Could it be that Ben as a 31yr old is simply getting older and slowing down?
It would be very easy to argue that Bens decrease in shooting was in part because of his overall performance. Tip-ins and putbacks are how he'll get the majority of his points. But if his rebounding numbers are down, it makes sense that his shots per game are likewise down.
Likewise with playing less minutes per game.
And don't forget about Ben's stellar free throw shooting. This was his worse year while in a Pistons uniform since 2000 when he shot 33.6%
On top of that, we saw more Hack-a-Ben this year then in previous years. That made Flip be more cautious in when and how he employed Ben in the offense.
And lastly, I would also point to Bens at ude this year which was on display when he refused to go back in the game in Orlando. Ben has at times shown child like tantrums which naturaly effect his performance and coaches faith and trust in him.
I would love to see Ben get more touches ... if he could put them in the hole. It would be a great improvement for the team. But it's a little difficult to listen to Ben about opportunities when he is in fact a terriblly weak offensive tool.
Without an improvement in his game, the only shots he deserves IMO is hustle opportunities that he creates with his rebounding.
And unless he improves his FT% he should expect more of the same.
Ideally, we resign him ... without breaking the bank. Hopefully Flip can devise some other plays specific for him that get him easy buckets. Hopefully with Sidney Lowe being gone Ben will feel less like they refuse to get him the ball.
But he needs to understand why people do not have confidence in his offensive game ... this includes his coach's and teamates.
in case you missed it, riley does the same thing with shaq
as he should.
This entire thread is rubbish.
A) Ben Wallace is incredibly overrated. He's basically a less petulant, less crazy Rodman. You say he guards centers? Well so did Rodman. The only thing Big Ben does better than Dennis is block a couple of shots a game. He certainly wasn't the passer Rodman was, and Dennis at least had the good sense to not ask for shots since he had no offensive skills. For 6 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks, fans want him to be a max player? Have you people gone mad? You can't give a gigantic doughnut on offense a max contract.
B) Like Bowen, Big Ben's defense only works if everyone else plays with intensity and keeps their assignments as well. Under Flip this simply isn't going to happen. 'Sheed is a lost cause, Rip can't guard anyone, and Tayshaun has been exposed by the most of the better wing players out there. The days of the Larry Brown/Rick Carlisle Pistons are over. The rules don't even permit defensive juggernauts anymore, and Ben is certainly already past his prime.
C) Shoulda kept Darko and developed him. If you gave him 25 mins a night the last two years (especially against the 50 games you play against crap teams every year) you coulda groomed the next Ben.
D) The cap won't let you have five 10M + starters. Deal with it. You can't have all-stars at every position. That's what role players are for. The problem becomes that success makes role players look better than they are so now Ben and Tayshaun think they're these big stars. Puh-lease.
E) I don't know who's dummer, the Pistons fans demanding that he be paid what he's demanding or the Bulls for offering what they're offering. Chicago would pretty much have to win it all next year to make the deal worth it, because they'll regret his contract mightily by '08.
thanks for the analysis, aaron. why an nba team doesn't have you on their payroll is beyond me.
theres no way in my opinion. hes the heart and soul of that team, they would be good but not contenders. thier bench is very week on top of that.
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