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Yeah, I'm sure you were saying that on thanksgiving last year.
If they paid him to be second on the team in tackles, first in forced fumbles, third in interceptions, third in passes defensed, and fourth in sacks, he'd probably be a sort of decent player. But they pay him to be a DB apparently so all the other stuff I mentioned only matters to pro bowl voters and the win-loss record.
Yeah, I'm sure you were saying that on thanksgiving last year.
Yeah, I'm sure you were saying that on thanksgiving last year.
I only remember one thing from that game............the final score.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pro bowl's are over rated......................and, there win-loss record, let's see.........
Dallas Cowboys record since Roy Williams rookie year..............wait for it...........33-37.
Quite an impact.
33 and 37.
Oh man, can't get over that one.
If Roy was the only factor in that record...that would be one thing. That is a product of team incompetence.
I will give you that one......the "Ryan Leaf" game I give your team no credit for.I only remember one thing from that game............the final score.
Roy's problem is that he can't cover anybody. Other than that, he's a good safety.
BTW, the most overrated player is Vick.
I agree, but the guy I was arguing with was implying that the win/loss record was/is a direct result of Roy Williams playing for the Cowboys.
I will give you that one......the "Ryan Leaf" game I give your team no credit for.
Refresh my memory, I tend to block things like this out and I'm having difficulty recalling this..........plus that was during college so there was a good chance I was drunk.
I agree, he's highly overrated.........now someone will point out how they only win when Vick is playing.........then I point out that the Broncos win a lot with Plummer, and is he a good quarterback? (No need to answer that by the way).
john...it was the turkey day game 2001 when Leaf QB'ed the Cowboys and lost by 2 to Denver.
Otto Graham was a good QB, but was more a product of Paul Brown's system, which was about 10 years ahead of the rest of pro football. No way is he in the top 3.
(No I never saw him play, either.)
I did see Johnny Unitas, but only towards the end of his career. A lot of knowledgable people will still tell you he is the best to ever play. My sense is that those of us who got to see Montana at his peak experienced the same thing as those who saw Johnny U in his prime.
I would go: Unitas, Montana, Elway. The order could be argued.
I could agree with Unitas. I totally forgot about him. I would put him, Graham and Elway ahead of Montana. The order, as shoog said...could be argued.
Yep, I was drunk.
Although the Broncos had a few good seasons with Griese, it's still something I try to block out of my head.
It was a Bronco win over Dallas....I wouldn't think there would be enough alcohol to make you forget that!
One of my favorite NFL pics
Y. A. tle.
I think that photo may have won a Pulitzer.
Probably the least remembered two-time MVP/Hall of Famer.
It didn't, I was wastching ESPN's outside the lines one day and they were talking about this picture how back then Sports photography wasn't respected.
The only reason I put John Elway ahead of Joe Montana is Dan Reeves. His offense for years held John and the Broncos offense back. When paired with a real offensive mind (and a hall of fame caliber RB) Mr. Elway had one of the great 5 year stretches in NFL history. Give Elway 10 years with Shanny and Mr. Elway has more rings the Montana (who had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Walsh etc etc).
Wow. Picking one thing out of the seven I mentioned to refute. What an argument. So a pro bowl player on a losing team automatically sucks. I'll keep that in mind.
Hey, I can't refute statistics, but you plainly said that Roy Williams matters when it comes to the win-loss column, and clearly, he doesn't matter all that much.
So you're a re , I'll keep that in mind.
I could see that.Give Elway 10 years with Shanny and Mr. Elway has more rings the Montana (who had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Walsh etc etc).
Too bad Al Davis could never see that.
I'll mostly agree with you on this. The Broncos' offense under Reeves was a couple of line plunges, followed by Elway scrambling to buy time so he could fire a 60 yard pass crossfield off the wrong foot.
On the other hand, I can't penalize Montana just because he played on a good team, because lots of QBs played on good times but never came through when it counted (see Manning, Peyton). So while it's true that Montana would never have been able to take the Broncos as far as Elway did, it's not necessarily true that the Niners would have won as many times with Elway as they did with Montana.
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