Parker is so non-clutch

[telecomguy]

telecom -- I don't think you're grasping that Parker is not Steve Nash and cannot do the things he can. What exactly are you talking about, "a balanced game"? Parker isn't capable of much more than what he's doing. Plus, what he's doing is basically the only way the Spurs can run things right now, because they need the points badly.

If your beef is that Parker is not a pass-first point guard in the Kidd/Nash/Stockton mold, then fine. We get it. We know he's not that player. Like many others have told you, he's a shoot-first point guard. He's Francis/Marbury/Kevin Johnson. He has a limited capacity to be a playmaker outside the drive-and-kick mold.

Your other beef seems to be that Parker scores too much and shoots too much. What people are trying to tell you is that the offense is geared this way. If he did not take these shots, we would not be compe ive offensively. We only have two other scorers, and those two are limited. Kori is correct: his ball domination is by design.

Again, if Tony can continue to score and be effective in the 4th quarter and in clutch times, I would have NO PROBLEM. The reality is that he dissappears. And THAT is because the opposing team eventually figures out a way to deny what Parker wants by the 3rd qtr. He cannot just do his thing 2 or 3 qtrs and then dissappear. And if he learned to play the PG role more effectively, the Spurs team would be that much more effective in the crunch time.

[telecomguy]

telecom -- I don't think you're grasping that Parker is not Steve Nash and cannot do the things he can. What exactly are you talking about, "a balanced game"? Parker isn't capable of much more than what he's doing. Plus, what he's doing is basically the only way the Spurs can run things right now, because they need the points badly.

If your beef is that Parker is not a pass-first point guard in the Kidd/Nash/Stockton mold, then fine. We get it. We know he's not that player. Like many others have told you, he's a shoot-first point guard. He's Francis/Marbury/Kevin Johnson. He has a limited capacity to be a playmaker outside the drive-and-kick mold.

Your other beef seems to be that Parker scores too much and shoots too much. What people are trying to tell you is that the offense is geared this way. If he did not take these shots, we would not be compe ive offensively. We only have two other scorers, and those two are limited. Kori is correct: his ball domination is by design.

Look...i don't care if Parker never develops into a good PG. If that is the reality, then he needs to handle the ball less. Let him play a pure SG in that case. Get another PG or make Manu into a PG and let HIM CREATE for others and only use Tony as one of the weapons. It is almost as if Tony is the SG AND a PG while the other 4 players stand around. I don't care what we call Tony (SG or PG). The point is that every good team needs someone who can direct the offence, expose weakness, look for lanes, holes, and make good crisp passes to destablize and break down the defence and get the other players easy looks. If Tony can't do it, then get someone else or have another Spur play that role. Manu is one guy that should handle the ball much more in the early going. Does it not strike you that as Tony has started to score more in the past few years and hog the ball more, Manu's effectiveness has gone down? That is not entirely a coincidence even if Manu's injury also had some role.

[mavsluva]

Hey, Michael Jordan missed a shot every now and then. If you expect perfection at all times, then you'll live in failure forever.

[Mr. Body]

Hey, no real complaint here. I think Parker is a good player and understand why we're using him the way we are, but he stagnates everything -- necessarily this year, since everyone else blows -- but he's not nearly the player people think he is and I seriously doubt he somehow becomes the point guard of the future or something. He's fine as a Duncan sidekick. And I wouldn't mind shopping him at some point, if we could be assured of a solid point guard fills in.

[AFBlue]

I won't argue your point but how exactly will we be able to build around him?

Based on the current ideology of the front office:

1) Pay and Overplay aging veterans with diminishing returns using valuable cap space.

2) Draft obscure European talent that is years from contributing and pray they develop as hoped.

3) Take on young, 12th man types in the hope that they develop.

4) Avoid overreaction and steer clear of trades.

Hey, Ian Mahinmi or Butler could be the second coming of David Robinson!

See, I'm not all sunshine and rainbows....

[sabar]

Parker's play is by design, but that doesn't make it immune to criticism. I strongly dislike this setup, and I don't see us winning a championship with it. Parker CANNOT consistantly vanish in the end game. The Spurs CANNOT rely on Tim/Manu to either bringing them out of a hole or to hang onto a lead. Not if they want the championship. If we had a decent backup PG, this would work, but we do not.

[abelle23]

Parker's play is by design, but that doesn't make it immune to criticism. I strongly dislike this setup, and I don't see us winning a championship with it. Parker CANNOT consistantly vanish in the end game. The Spurs CANNOT rely on Tim/Manu to either bringing them out of a hole or to hang onto a lead. Not if they want the championship. If we had a decent backup PG, this would work, but we do not.

and i think its really difficult and is a lot of pressure for manu/tim to create on the 4th when they were deferring/not involve early... you cannot just expect them to turn it up on the 4th everytime (although manu does often) but sometimes it just too late...

[smeagol]

great insight.

if you actually watched the games, you would see that many valid points here. this is a discussion forum isn't it?

Wow.

I'm being bashed for defending Tony?

smeagol = ducks

[smeagol]

Parker's play is by design, but that doesn't make it immune to criticism. I strongly dislike this setup, and I don't see us winning a championship with it. Parker CANNOT consistantly vanish in the end game. The Spurs CANNOT rely on Tim/Manu to either bringing them out of a hole or to hang onto a lead. Not if they want the championship. If we had a decent backup PG, this would work, but we do not.

Parker is not a decent PG?

Are you from Argentina?

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I got kicked out of the Spursreport forum because early last season, I criticized Parker too much in the administrator's opinion. Basically what I said was that Parker has a very poor court vision & is too one-dimensional (penetrate & layup) to be considered anywhere near the top point-guard in the league. I also stated that I feared Spurs would not go far in the playoffs with Parker directing the offence (I duly noted that Popovich had given Parker much more responsibility for offence as well as green light to shoot more) and his lack of defence. Sure enough, Dallas knocked Spurs off despite heroic effort from Duncan and as USUAL, Parker dissappeared in the key moments in that series.

Watching last night's game reminded me why I get so frustrated watching Parker. The kid has all the natural talent but his basketball IQ or court vision must be very very low. And his inability to play tough in pressure situation is so consistent that I am inclined to believe that he cannot handle pressure in the latter stages of games. If you watch Parker, he always comes out very strong in games or in series only to basically dissappear in the crunch minutes or key games once the opposing defence starts to collapse their defence and prevent him from penetrating. Unlike Nash who can punish you if you back off him, Parker's jump shot is still so unreliable that as soon as the crunch time comes, you can see parker is so reluctant to take the important shots -- always deferring to Manu or Duncan. So effectively, our offence becomes very one-dimensional in key moments because Parker and Bowen dissappears and the only options are Manu and Duncan.

I know many posters love Parker because he is so quick and he can penetrate/finish. Unfortunately, this is not enough for a PG. And also his defence is a quite a big liability. Lastly how come makes so many turnovers in key moments but his steal numbers are so low??? I do not have scientific proof or data to support this but I watch almost all Spurs games and the general impression I have of parker is that he committs way too many mental errors and basically tends to "dissappear" in key moments when the games are close and are hanging in the balance.

I said last year that I can easily name 10 PG that are probably more clutch, and better than Parker.....(i included Hinrich in that list) and everyone at Spursreport laughed at me.

I am not trying to bash parker but it is so surprising how ineffective he becomes in clutch time and how many errors he makes and how little he contributes to the team. Parker playing one-on-five is simply not going to work in playoffs or in crunch time. Especially against an atheletic team like Dallas or even Phoenix. To me, Hinrich, Paul, Nash, Billups, Kidd, Andre Miller, etc etc. or any one of 10 other PG would be a far better fit than Parker. Parker will score...in the early going and then dissappear when the crunch time comes. PG is one of the most important position, and I can't imagine Spurs winning it all this year relying only on Duncan and Manu in key points in the games.

Good points, though I think just about everyone can say that his dissapearance late in games isn't anything that has gone unnoticed. He's been terribly un-clutch for basically his whole career, and it's always been a problem, but only a minor one. I think now, though, with the lack of production from other players, including not having a formidable back up that can save his ass late in games (i.e. Speedy Claxton, or even a a guy like antonio daniels) the Spurs have had to rely on him late in games much more than what was the case in the past. Although he has improved in some aspects and has taken some of the scoring load, I think he has done the latter involuntarily; in the last two years it is clear the Spurs don't have enough weapons on offense, and so it isn't a bit ironic that his ppg have gone up...

People keep saying that he has improved, and he has, but in reality the steps he's taken to become a better player have been baby steps...It's not these baby steps toward improvement that account for his percieved enormous improvement on offense, but instead the changes in the make-up of the team that have inevetably thrown more of the scoring load on Parker.

Our expectations of him are too high. He hasn't improved as much as people seem think he has.

[ginobili fan]

give parker just 2 years of perfectionning

[AFBlue]

People keep saying that he has improved, and he has, but in reality the steps he's taken to become a better player have been baby steps...It's not these baby steps toward improvement that account for his percieved enormous improvement on offense, but instead the changes in the make-up of the team that have inevetably thrown more of the scoring load on Parker.

Our expectations of him are too high. He hasn't improved as much as people seem think he has.

Does this team still have Duncan and Manu? Then the make-up hasn't changed that much. Parker didn't get an all-star bid by taking what the defense gave him...he created opportunities for himself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Tony improved in almost every statistical category each year? Some might say that based on historical data, that trend should continue.

[ArgSpursFan]

I love tony,but to me he is more a SG tham a PG.Honestly I think he hurts the team by bieng the Point Guard at clutch time,and I´ll say why:
Remember the 2004-2005 season?
we won our last championship right?
ok,Question:Who had the ball on his hands at clutch time and called the play?
Was it manu? or am I wrong?
I think he was,and I don´t know why that changed last season and this year too.
It looks like Pop feels more secure colling plays for tony and Timmy to finish them, tham Manu does.
I don´t know why a sistem that gave us a championship had to change
Think about it for a sec ,and If you still don´t belive me go to the evidence and watch some playoffs games vids from that season,and you´ll see that the man with the ball on his hand on a very close game was Manu,and now is Tony.
May be Pop feels more confortable right now with the way Tony is playing,and I don´t blame him for that,but Like the other poster said he is not a clutch player.Manu is a clutch player and Thats one of the reazons why all spurs fans love him so much.

[itzsoweezee]

the reason the spurs lost last night's game was b/c parker was not playing. the lakers went on a big run while he sat on the bench.

idiot popovich should be playing parker 40 minutes a night. especially when you have a scrub like udrih backing parker up.

i thought the spurs were going to shorten up the rotation?

and what happened to vaughn? he was playing well when he got some PT and now he never ing plays.

POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH.

[ArgSpursFan]

give parker just 2 years of perfectionning

Yeah, and let´s give Beno another 15 years of perfectionning if that´s the case

[ArgSpursFan]

the reason the spurs lost last night's game was b/c parker was not playing. the lakers went on a big run while he sat on the bench.

idiot popovich should be playing parker 40 minutes a night. especially when you have a scrub like udrih backing parker up.

i thought the spurs were going to shorten up the rotation?

and what happened to vaughn? he was playing well when he got some PT and now he never ing plays.

POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH. POPOVICH.

I think He´ll try to trade beno,thats why he is giving him some minutes, thats all,Pop aint stupid

[AFBlue]

Yeah, and let´s give Beno another 15 years of perfectionning if that´s the case

Parker is averaging almost 20 and 6 this year and Beno is having trouble keeping his spot as second string pg in lieu of a 30+ yr old career third-stringer....tough to compare the two.

Parker needs "polishing", Beno needs a massive overhaul!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Beno is certainly regressing. I wonder if the front office regrets picking up his option for next year.

[diego]

So I would not blame the whole thing on Parker. we won 2 rings with a lesser Parker in the past.

We need to worry about the bigger things: taking care of the ball, rebounding, playing the full 48 minutes and somehow getting a decent bench.

that asshole Pop needs to take the team back to the basics. WTF are they doing in practice???? that's what I wanna know.

I also got banned from SR for trashing parker after the 04 meltdown. Since then, i've come to appreciate the kid's qualities. you cant expect everyone to be perfect, and there is no question that a) parker does more good than bad and b) he does what pop tells him to. Also, the way his shot has improved is remarkable.

I think there are two problems. The larger, is that parker has no decent backup since speedy left, so he tires more and has more pressure to score. this is aggravated by duncan and manu's injury problems.

the smaller, but still important problem, is tony's decision making. I used to think he was incapable of making good passes (it seemed his passes always lacked oomph and were a bit off target making it more difficult for catch-and-shoot guys), but its not that, i think he doesnt trust himself and thinks he is more likely to turn it over passing than dribbling (certainly not the case last night!)

On the other hand, Manu sometimes drives me crazy for the opposite. Last night (i think in the 2nd) there were a couple of close possessions manu had transition opportunities where he made obvious passes to cutters that were deflected when he could have gone in and finished himself. I think you need to have the confidence and judgement to do both, and to not get hung up if you dont succeed.

Manu was pretty clutch last night in the 4th, but he also had a bad turnover in the last 2 min (dribble off the foot) and he also clanked that open 3. Its important to finish games, but you have to put yourself in position to do it.

maybe this deserves its own thread but, Im a spur fan since the 02-03 season and i dont remember kobe ever shooting over 50% against us. it was always that hed get his pts, but at a horrible efficiency, with the occasional game where he wouldnt even break 20. i think that has more to do with duncan than bowen but i digress, have work to do!

**edit: agree with others that manu should be more involved in the early going. i understand pop wants the surprise factor in having manu take over the 4th but it would be a lot better if they shared protagonism from the get go and keep the other team guessing instead of riding tony then throwing manu behind the wheel at the last minute

[gilmor]

Comparing Tony to either Nash or Kobe is insane. They are just different levels of players. Tony will never be as good as Nash or Kobe. Spurs is a 3-man team. Tony is limited in the abilities and talents that he has.

[Mr. Body]

Comparing Tony to either Nash or Kobe is insane. They are just different levels of players. Tony will never be as good as Nash or Kobe. Spurs is a 3-man team. Tony is limited in the abilities and talents that he has.

There are people here who actually believe Tony is a franchise-type player like Nash or Kobe. That's insane.

[AFBlue]

Comparing Tony to either Nash or Kobe is insane. They are just different levels of players. Tony will never be as good as Nash or Kobe. Spurs is a 3-man team. Tony is limited in the abilities and talents that he has.

Interesting that you can say that so confidently about a 24yr old in his 5th season in the league. Tony isn't limited by anything accept his height and has shown the ability to improve those so-called "talents he has."

Pigeonholling a kid when he's this young and has shown the ability/drive to improve is just idiotic. Will he make it to Nash/Kobe level, I dunno, but it IS possible.

[AFBlue]

There are people here who actually believe Tony is a franchise-type player like Nash or Kobe. That's insane.

Kobe is a franchise player? How does a score-first guy like Kobe who has the ability but rarely the drive to make his team better end up in your list of "franchise" player? What exactly do you define as a franchise player?

[nkdlunch]

Kobe is a franchise player, not my kind.

but it's insane some ppl compare him with Jordan

[AFBlue]

Kobe is a franchise player, not my kind.

but it's insane some ppl compare him with Jordan

I'm actually not really debating whether Kobe is or isn't, but Jesse "the body" keeps saying that Parker isn't...but he thinks Kobe is? What makes them different?