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  1. #51
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    What is your working theory about what really happened on 9/11, incorporating everything you just brought up above and in the last few 9/11 threads you've posted in?
    Dan:

    Answer.the. ing.question

    mookie, elpimpo, mouse, chime in whenever you feel the urge

  2. #52
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    It was designed to withstand the impact of a 707 that wasn't trying to crash into the building at near maximum speed.
    Ok, but I've already shown that this wasn't a hollowed-out building as the FEMA report alleges, it was a wirey mesh of steel beams with a solid middle core of trusses. If the building did collapse because of the weight of the plane or fire, it would have collapsed over at its weakest point, which following your reasoning, would have been at the point of impact, and it would have collapsed over like a tree, not like a pancake. Try it yourself. Building trusses with some wire about the thickness of a paper-clip and throw or shoot something heavy into it, but make sure it sticks, and watch what happens.

  3. #53
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    The preliminary FEMA report has been discredited. If your conspiracy theory is based upon the flaws in the FEMA report, well NIST already debunked it for you. The pancake theory was proven wrong, so you can stop explaining to us how the pancake theory was wrong.

    And we all remember seeing with our own eyes on video how the section of the south tower above the impact point toppled over like a tree as the building began to collapse, so you can drop that point as well.

  4. #54
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    would have been at the point of impact, and it would have collapsed over like a tree, not like a pancake.
    Sure started out that way.



    Note the angle. Tree-like initially, but once the top section was free of the rest of the building, it fell straight down, crushing each floor below and continuously adding the mass of an acre of office building to that of the already falling section of twenty or thirty acres of office building.

  5. #55
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, almost forgot....

    What is your working theory about what really happened on 9/11, incorporating everything you just brought up above and in the last few 9/11 threads you've posted in?

  6. #56
    Keith Jackson mookie2001's Avatar
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    I just think elpimpo wants a legit investigation

    smeagol youre the dumbass for gun control
    what. parts. of. the. cons ution. do. you. think. should. be changed.??

    Ive already said several times that i think there were explosives and thermite in the buildings


    and several times that chump asking that question over and over again, proves NOTHING, and have asked him what that question is supposed to get me to feel or think?

  7. #57
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It's supposed to get you to say your working theory about what really happened on 9/11, incorporating everything you just brought up above and in the last few 9/11 threads you've posted in.

    I don't see what can't be understood in that question.

  8. #58
    Keith Jackson mookie2001's Avatar
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    I just dont see it as the showstopping, groundbreaking, oh , jawdropping argument you seem to think it is based on the amount of times your smugass says it, thinking you just won some kind of argument

  9. #59
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Sure started out that way.



    Note the angle. Tree-like initially, but once the top section was free of the rest of the building, it fell straight down, crushing each floor below and continuously adding the mass of an acre of office building to that of the already falling section of twenty or thirty acres of office building.

    Now suppose that the inner trusses were weakened on key floors with 'explosions' before the collapse of each tower, and the trusses near the kinkings were blown with a big explosion before the collapse, how would the building collapse then?

  10. #60
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    Now suppose that the inner trusses were weakened on key floors with 'explosions' before the collapse of each tower, and the trusses near the kinkings were blown with a big explosion before the collapse, how would the building collapse then?


    That's ing re ed.

    You're just adding guesses, crap, and useless ideas to what actually happened.

    I can do that too, I don't think their were really people flying those planes. Suppose the planes were unmanned and were controlled from the ground.


    See, the same exact would have happened but I got to throw out a re ed ing theory.

    You should tell some of the families that lost loved ones on 9/11 about your theory.

  11. #61
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    You're just adding guesses, crap, and useless ideas to what actually happened.
    What kind of 'evidence' would be suitable for you Johnny? and why don't people who adhere to the official theory ever post the audio before and after the collapse?

  12. #62
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Now suppose that the inner trusses were weakened on key floors with 'explosions' before the collapse of each tower, and the trusses near the kinkings were blown with a big explosion before the collapse, how would the building collapse then?
    You're saying explosives were placed on the exact floors where the planes hit.

    And that the explosives and the riggin and the wiring and the remote transceivers survived the impact of a 757 and the resulting fire.

    Yeah, that's easy to believe.

  13. #63
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    What kind of 'evidence' would be suitable for you Johnny


    Ummmmmmm.........any kind whatsoever!!!!!

  14. #64
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Evidence -- feh.

    I'd settle for a coherent alternate theory.

  15. #65
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    You're saying explosives were placed on the exact floors where the planes hit
    Are you saying that a guy who supposedly couldn't land a plane managed to hit a two or three story building on the first run?

  16. #66
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Since real airline pilots said it was possible, yes.

    I provided a link to that.

    Could I have the link where a demolition expert explains the possibility of your scenario?

  17. #67
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    And why would you claim the Pentagon is a two-story building anyway?

    There is a clear pattern of distortion running through your posts. That shouldn't be necessary when the truth is on your side.

  18. #68
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Furthermore, why would anyone assume it would be some fantastic feat of aviation acrobatics to simply not miss a building that covers 29 acres of land.

    Let's review the terms we learned today.


    "two story building"

    and


    "impossible target"

  19. #69
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity * velocity
    Ok, but...

    Conservation of Energy Law states PE = KE
    Potential Energy Stored = Kinetic Energy of Motion

    According to the FEMA report, WTC1 registered a 2.3 on the ricter scale, or equivalent to the explosive power of 2.7 tons of TNT. WTC2 registered a 2.1, or the equilavent explosive power of 1.4 tons of TNT.

  20. #70
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    And why would you claim the Pentagon is a two-story building anyway?

    There is a clear pattern of distortion running through your posts. That shouldn't be necessary when the truth is on your side.
    Have you been in the Pentagon? It was just a guestimation...look all I'm saying is the Pentagon was a much narrower target than the WTC towers from the air, and if a maniac can fly a plane into the pentagon then he can certainly try and hit between certain floors on the WTC towers.

  21. #71
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Have you been in the Pentagon?
    I've seen enough pictures to know it's not a two-story building.
    look all I'm saying is the Pentagon was a much narrower target than the WTC towers from the air
    Each side of the Pentagon is 921 feet wide. Each side of each trade tower is 208 feet wide. I learned a new definition for "narrower" today too.
    and if a maniac can fly a plane into the pentagon then he can certainly try and hit between certain floors on the WTC towers.
    No, you're saying that each terrorist hit an exact floor in such a way that the explosives, rigging, detonation and receiving apparatus planted directly in the impact zone was undisturbed by the impact and explosion of 300,000 pound planes filled with jet fuel.

    I'm saying they just wanted to hit the buildings.

  22. #72
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    the M$M works hard to distort the Le Monde report...

    France Warned CIA of Hijack Plot in 2001
    By ANGELA DOLAND
    Associated Press Writer
    April 16, 2007, 5:11 PM EDT

    PARIS --
    Nine months before al-Qaida slammed airliners into the World Trade Center, French intelligence suspected the terror network was plotting a hijacking -- possibly involving a U.S. airline -- and warned the CIA, former French intelligence officials said Monday.

    But the French warning hinted at a plot in Europe, not the United States, and there was no suggestion of suicide attacks or multiple planes. One former official said al-Qaida may have leaked misinformation to divert intelligence agencies from the bigger, deadlier plot to come on Sept. 11, 2001.

    The warning was another example of how intelligence agents sensed al-Qaida was hard at work in the months leading up to Sept. 11 but were unable to piece together fragmented warnings into a coherent plot.

    Le Monde first reported the story Monday as it published excerpts of 328 pages of classified do ents from France's main foreign intelligence agency, the DGSE. One note, dated Jan. 5, 2001, reported that al-Qaida was plotting a hijacking.

    Details were vague.

    "It wasn't about a specific airline or a specific day, it was not a precise plot," Pierre-Antoine Lorenzi, the former chief of staff for the agency's director, told The Associated Press. "It was a note that said, 'They are preparing a plot to hijack an airplane, and they have cited several companies.'"

    Le Monde printed a copy of part of the note. In early 2000 in Kabul, Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden met with Taliban leaders and armed groups from Chechnya and discussed the possibility of hijacking a plane after takeoff in Frankfurt, Germany, the note said, citing Uzbek intelligence.

    The note listed potential targets: American, Delta, Continental, and United airlines, Air France and Lufthansa. The list also mentioned a "US Aero," but it was unclear exactly what that referred to.

    Two of the carriers, United and American, were targeted on Sept. 11.

    CIA spokesman George Little said Le Monde's article "merely repeats what the U.S. government knew and reported before Sept. 11 -- that al-Qaida was interested in airliner plots, especially hijackings."

    "The article does not suggest that U.S. or foreign officials had advance knowledge of the details surrounding the Sept. 11 plot," he said. "Had the details been known, the U.S. government would have acted on them."

    The Sept. 11 Commission and a joint congressional inquiry into the attacks have described vague warnings of potential threats in the months before Sept. 11, 2001.

    The 9/11 commission said that, as the year began, the CIA started receiving "frequent but fragmentary" threat reports. Among other warnings, the intelligence community sent out a March 2001 terror threat advisory about a heightened threat of Sunni extremist attacks against U.S. facilities, personnel and other interests.

    During that investigation George Tenet, CIA director at the time, told the commission that "the system was blinking red."

    "Everyone knew that something was cooking, that these people were preparing something big and spectacular," Alain Chouet, former chief of the security intelligence service at the DGSE, told AP. "Our American colleagues knew, our European colleagues knew, everyone did. But nobody had a hint it would happen inside the United States -- on the contrary."

    The DGSE drew up nine reports about al-Qaida threats to U.S. interests in the year leading up to Sept. 11, 2001, Le Monde said. The agency gained experience fighting Islamist terrorism when Algerian insurgents set off deadly bombs in Paris in the mid-1990s.

    The Sept. 11 Commission report mentions a 1994 Algerian plot with chilling similarities to Sept. 11 -- the hijacking of an Air France flight by Algerian militants who threatened to blow it up over the Eiffel Tower. The hijackers were killed when French commandos stormed the plane.

    Before drafting the January 2001 notice, the DGSE was tipped off by Uzbek intelligence. Chouet said Abdul Rashid Dostum, an Afghan warlord from the Uzbek community who was fighting the Taliban, had sent his men to infiltrate al-Qaida camps. Their information was passed to Western intelligence officials. Today, Dostum is chief of staff of the Afghan army.

    The French certainly passed the note along to the CIA, Chouet said.

    "We transmitted everything to our American counterparts, everything that could have posed a threat, and they did the same with us," Chouet said.

    He suggested details of the plot -- such as the European setting -- may have been leaked by al-Qaida to confuse intelligence services. It would not be the first time, he said.

    An alleged bin Laden associate named Djamel Beghal was arrested in the United Arab Emirates in the months before the Sept. 11 attacks. Investigators suspected he was the ringleader of a plot to send a suicide bomber into the U.S. Embassy in Paris.

    Chouet says he has concluded that plot was a fake -- "part of a misinformation operation by al-Qaida."
    Newsday

    Here is what the La Monde article actually said:

    (in french)

    Dès janvier 2001, la direction d'Al-Qaida se montre néanmoins transparente aux yeux – et aux oreilles – des espions français. Les rédacteurs détaillent même les désaccords entre terroristes sur les modalités pratiques du détournement envisagé. Jamais ils ne doutent de leur intention. Provisoirement, les djihadistes privilégient la capture d'un avion entre Francfort et les Etats-Unis. Ils établissent une liste de sept compagnies possibles. Deux seront finalement choisies par les pirates du 11-Septembre : American Airlines et United Airlines (voir fac-similé). Dans son introduction, l'auteur de la note annonce : "Selon les services ouzbeks de renseignement, le projet d'un détournement d'avion semble avoir été discuté en début d'année 2000 lors d'une réunion à Kaboul entre des représentants de l'organisation d'Oussama Ben Laden…"

    (translated into English)

    By January 2001, Al-Qaida’s direction, however, has become transparent to the eyes - and the ears - of French spies. The writers <of the French intelligence reports> even detail the operational disagreements between terrorists about how they envision the hijackings. They <the French intelligence report writers> never doubt the <terrorists’> intentions. For a while, the jihadists focus on hijacking a plane <en route> between Frankfurt and the United States. They draw up a list of seven possible airline companies. The pirates of 9/11 <ie hijackers> finally chose two: American Airlines and United Airlines (see facsimiled). In his introduction, the author of the note announces: “According to the Uzbek <intelligence> service’s information, the hijacking project seems to have been be discussed at the beginning of 2000 at a meeting in Kabul between representatives of Usama Bin Laden’s organization…”
    more...

    Alain Chouet a gardé en mémoire cet épisode. Il a dirigé jusqu'en octobre 2002 le Service de renseignement de sécurité, la subdivision de la DGSE chargée de suivre les mouvements terroristes. Selon lui, la crédibilité du canal ouzbek trouve son origine dans les alliances passées par le général Rachid Dostom, l'un des principaux chefs de guerre afghans, d'ethnie ouzbek lui aussi, et qui combat alors les talibans. Pour plaire à ses protecteurs des services de sécurité de l'Ouzbékistan voisin, Dostom a infiltré certains de ses hommes au sein du MIO, jusque dans les structures de commandement des camps d'Al-Qaida. C'est ainsi qu'il renseigne ses amis de Tachkent, en sachant que ses informations cheminent ensuite vers Washington, Londres ou Paris.

    Alain Chouet recalls this episode. Until October 2002, he was the director the Security Information Service, the subdivision of the DGSE charged with tracking terrorists' movements. According to him <ie Chouet, head of French counter-terrorism>, the credibility of the Uzbek channel originated in the past alliances of General Rachid Dostom, one of the principal Afghan warlords, who is also an ethnic Uzbek, and who was then fighting the Taliban. In order to please his protectors in the Uzbek security <ie intelligence?> service, he infiltrated some of his men in the heart of the MIO <ie the Uzbek jihadist organization being trained at Al Qaeda camps> up to the very command structure of the al Qaeda camps. Thus, he informed his friends in Tachkent <ie, the capital or government of Uzbekistan> with the knowledge that his information would proceed onwards to Washington, London or Paris.
    The revelation here is the level of penetration into al Qaeda. The French have Uzbeks posing as jihadists in the command structure of al Qaeda; they have European born or based Muslims posing as jihadists in the al Qaeda camps; they are listening to their satellite conversations.

    They have such sweeping and deep penetration of al Qaeda, that al Qaeda had become “transparent” to French intelligence. They even listen in to the jihadists debates about which airlines to strike and which airline routes to hijack. Their eyes and ears are there when it is decided months before 9/11 to hit American Airlines and United Airlines.

    This is almost the complete opposite of the English language description of the article, which claims that the French had some information, but couldn’t put the pieces together.

    All of this information was passed to the CIA Station Chief in Paris, Bill Murray, one of the highest ranking overseas CIA officers, one who is embedded in the heart of NATO’s intelligence structure – and incidentally who apppears to be a stand up guy who later would try to quash the Niger yellow cake hokum, a guy who thereafter retired (or was retired) from the agency, but is reluctant to talk to the press because his CIA “contracts” could be withdrawn in revenge.

  23. #73
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    They even listen in to the jihadists debates about which airlines to strike and which airline routes to hijack.
    If I read the uncredited translation correctly, that was a route that didn't originate in the US, just like the Newsday article said.

    Again, it just looks like more of the same. Everyone figured Al Qaeda was going to do something, likely with planes, but not much else.

  24. #74
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    ...saying that each terrorist hit an exact floor in such a way that the explosives, rigging, detonation and receiving apparatus planted

    I'm saying they just wanted to hit the buildings.
    I still want dan to answer my question. When were all these
    explosives planted, by whom and how. How was the
    skeleton of building weakened. People work in the building
    and I would say someone would get awful su ious if
    they saw people carrying boxes of explosives up after the
    planes hit.

    dan answer the question. When were all these planted
    and how.

  25. #75
    Damn The Man Mr. Peabody's Avatar
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    Also, I would think that some of these Muslim countries would have something to say if they felt the US had staged the entire event to go to war with Muslim nations. Or are they in on the conspiracy as well?

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