is there a reason why most of the latest NBA´s MVPs are not American?

[ArgSpursFan]

I can give you all tons of examples of NCAA players who sucked in the NBA,went to Europe and came back better tham when they left.
lets see:Hudonis Haslem,Bruce Bowen,Pepe Sanchez(temple)ect ect ect

but the fundamentals that a player carry for the rest of his carrer,it has to be learned before NCAA or FIBA .you learn that as a kid or teenager. and that´s the argument of this thread.

I guess F. Elson is the only MF who just gets worst and worst.

[temujin]

Interesting thread.

Last year a friend of mine here received a formal offer, a written contract, to go to the US as an assistant coach to an NBA team.
Specific mission: teach some of his players -a couple in particular- that "basketball isn't ALL just about leaping and jumping." (exact words of the head coach, translated in english from another language).

He turned it down.
Too wealthy and busy with his own business and golf to waste his time in a desperate effort.

It isn't actually such a bad team: second best record, MVP point guard (the guy would have not dealt with this one, one that KNOWS what basketball is all about) and a serious shot at eliminating an excellent team that many here care about.

I think there should be plenty such jobs available.

[temujin]

Now they do...but last time they didn't. Manu had just broken into the NBA in 04.

Argentina still is kind of lucky because two of their starters play together in Manu and Oberto...




Dirk is a freak no matter where he is from...


Stick Jason Kidd on the Suns(with Amare and D'Antoni) and his numbers will look a lot better...Nash isn't that much better than a guy like Jason Kidd.

Right situation, right coach, right team.

Dirk is a 7 foot two guard and there aren't many of those, but since he just got humiliated in the first round, I'm not sure I understand why you want to claim him....


Plus...if you are going to make it a USA VS the rest of the World thing...the Rest of the World should be winning the MVP, 250 Million Americans VS 6.4 Billion other people.

Nah it's Germany (90 millions) vs the rest of the world.

[temujin]

and by the way ArgSpursFan, the whole premise of your question and your subsequent comments make you come across as one arrogant, y, conceited foreign jackass.
And to think I just posted in another thread how nice it was to have an international fan base. Fortunately, most of them are nice enough.

I am not sure whether I am nice, but there is a great deal of truth in what Argfans writes.

The Spurs FO have lead the way in intelligence by realizing what a difference could make drafting excellent TEAM players from outside the US.

At the other end of the spectrum stand the NY Knicks, a living legend in world professional sports in drafting stubborn home-made circus-belonging loosers.

[ArgSpursFan]

It´s just a matter of Learning the game the right way from ground zero I belive.In argentina is not a coincidence that Players like Manu or many others are having such a world wide impact,and the National team is leading most of the internationals compe ions.
Basketball it been teached in every other comunity/state in the country and you can eather go to a FREE basketball school/club or soccer schooll/club,or whatever sport you like,or you can go to a private sports school.
Most of the Popular soccer and Basketball player have attended to a basketball or soccer club/schooll since a very short age(around 6/7 yrs old)and THERE they learn the sport BASICS/FUNDAMENTALS and most important they teach you how to be a team player,and tell you that basketball is a team´s sport not like tennis or swimming,just to give an example.

[romain.star]

Nah it's Germany (90 millions) vs the rest of the world.

with all my respect, it's 80 millions inhabitants

[Obstructed_View]

Somebody needs a math lesson.

[whottt]

ArgSpursfan...

#1. What makes you think fundamental basketball isn't taught at the highschool and lower level in America?

That's a huge assumption on your part.


#2. Dirk winning the MVP has about jack to do with his fundamentals...

Where's the other German Dirk? Where's the other Dirk?

Ooops.

Nash and Dirk weren't very good when they got to the NBA, fundamentally or otherwise, and neither wanted to play a lick of defense...

And they routinely got their asses kicked by the powerhouse teams of the NBA when they played on the same team.


Don Nelson coached them longer than any other coach they had did...and you know, he just whipped their ass with a bunch of American players...playing the same style.


#3. Ask Tony Parker and Manu who their favorite player is...it's not some guy known for his fundamentals and team play credo...it's Michael Jordan, the grandaddy of all selfish ballhogs...


#4. If there is something the rest of the world is doing to make them fundamentally superior jumpshooters...it'd be ing nice if Manu showed it sometime before this series is over...you know, like Nash and Dirk AKA the rest of the world.

#5. Argentina won't be winning the gold medal in 08...surely you see this already?

Neither will Germany, or Canada...France might, but more than likely it will be the US.


See to me...it's like we've lost 3 times in Olympic history...one time was a sham, the other two were by teams with extensive experience playing together, and ill concieved US teams...

But to me, the 47 times we won it means more than the 3 times we didn't...I don't see a whole lot of room to crow...

At least wait until we lose another Olympics, for the first time...ever.




And the International players coming from the countries that are producing the most of them, will take the money over spending 5 years in Europe, just like Americans take it instead of going to college...and really, you'd be kind of stupid not too...in most cases.


As for the socio aspect we got into earlier...

Huge difference between being poor and in the menial segment of society vs starvation and famine...

If the living conditions are too bad, they won't be producing athletes.

[Extra Stout]

just wondering though.
If we take TD as a NON American also,the count gets even Bigger.
you think FIBA is a better BB schooll to form Basketball players tham NCAA??

I think you're on to something here, what with Duncan and Nash matriculating on FIBA teams like Wake Forest and Santa Clara.

[Extra Stout]

not really.Nash LEARNED BB under FIBA rules.He played FIBA for the Canadian Nat.team for many years.

Does chronological order go backwards in the Southern Hemisphere?

[Extra Stout]

If that ignorant, rude, bigoted Argentine fellow needs to know, the problem in the U.S. is not the NCAA system. The problem is that players out of high school bypass all or part of their NCAA careers and go straight to the NBA. The youth system in the USA is called the AAU. It is corrupt, filled with leeches who exploit the talent of young players for their own personal gain, without allowing the kids ever actually to learn the game.

[ArgSpursFan]

If that ignorant, rude, bigoted Argentine fellow needs to know, the problem in the U.S. is not the NCAA system. The problem is that players out of high school bypass all or part of their NCAA careers and go straight to the NBA. The youth system in the USA is called the AAU. It is corrupt, filled with leeches who exploit the talent of young players for their own personal gain, without allowing the kids ever actually to learn the game.

thanks for the complements,I would like to see who is more ignorant here though,but like you said,the problem is the corrupt system that makes the young guys bypass the NCAA or even big part of high schooll,to start making money in the NBA.So now,why isnt the NCAA a profetional league anyways?with standard sallaries for young kids who want to help their families,I know most of them get paid under the table,but I don´t think Its gonna hurt the system to make the NCAA a Pro league,that way kids wont be desperate to be drafted at the age of 19.
I´m not saying big sallaries tho,just a regular sallary to somebody who is playing for a team who SELLS TICKETS AND TV RIGHTS for the games these kids are playing.

[ArgSpursFan]

ArgSpursfan...

#1. What makes you think fundamental basketball isn't taught at the highschool and lower level in America?
That's a huge assumption on your part.


#2. Dirk winning the MVP has about jack to do with his fundamentals...

Where's the other German Dirk? Where's the other Dirk?

Ooops.

Nash and Dirk weren't very good when they got to the NBA, fundamentally or otherwise, and neither wanted to play a lick of defense...

And they routinely got their asses kicked by the powerhouse teams of the NBA when they played on the same team.


Don Nelson coached them longer than any other coach they had did...and you know, he just whipped their ass with a bunch of American players...playing the same style.


#3. Ask Tony Parker and Manu who their favorite player is...it's not some guy known for his fundamentals and team play credo...it's Michael Jordan, the grandaddy of all selfish ballhogs...


#4. If there is something the rest of the world is doing to make them fundamentally superior jumpshooters...it'd be ing nice if Manu showed it sometime before this series is over...you know, like Nash and Dirk AKA the rest of the world.

#5. Argentina won't be winning the gold medal in 08...surely you see this already?

Neither will Germany, or Canada...France might, but more than likely it will be the US.


See to me...it's like we've lost 3 times in Olympic history...one time was a sham, the other two were by teams with extensive experience playing together, and ill concieved US teams...

But to me, the 47 times we won it means more than the 3 times we didn't...I don't see a whole lot of room to crow...
At least wait until we lose another Olympics, for the first time...ever.




And the International players coming from the countries that are producing the most of them, will take the money over spending 5 years in Europe, just like Americans take it instead of going to college...and really, you'd be kind of stupid not too...in most cases.


As for the socio aspect we got into earlier...

Huge difference between being poor and in the menial segment of society vs starvation and famine...

If the living conditions are too bad, they won't be producing athletes.

1 st of all,I´m not saying that US isn´t the bigger and best producer of BB players.I love the NBA and my fab players ever are Americans.(read MJ,Magic,Larry,Stockton,etc)but that´s the PAST whott,the tle of this thread is:is the a reazon why MOST OF THE LATEST........and I´m talking about the last 6 to 8 yrs,not the American BB players History.
There´s a reazon why the NBA is spanding now more tham ever in the history of NBA.

secondly,I refuse to belive that Nash and Dirk learned DIFFENSE with Don Nelson,come on!!!

3-If I was you,I wouldn´t buy no champagne to celebrate a world championship or Olympics gold medal,until the US is in the Final game up by at least 10,no disrespect,but BB aint like in the mid 90´s or before that no more,and I´m not sure if Arg can or can´t repet it ,but I know our guys play as a team though.

and finally...I live 6 months in the US and 6 months in Arg every year,and when I´m in the US,I have a hard time trying to find a BB schooll or club for my 10 yrs old son,So I know for a fact what goes on with kids who wanna learn or play BB,there are some communities teams,coached mostly by fathers,but not many BB schools or clinics for kids.At least in the Orlando Area.

[ArgSpursFan]

I am not sure whether I am nice, but there is a great deal of truth in what Argfans writes.

The Spurs FO have lead the way in intelligence by realizing what a difference could make drafting excellent TEAM players from outside the US.

At the other end of the spectrum stand the NY Knicks, a living legend in world professional sports in drafting stubborn home-made circus-belonging loosers.

[ArgSpursFan]

Bump-!

[ShoogarBear]

I think FIBA taught John Stockton, too.

[WalterBenitez]

just wondering though.
If we take TD as a NON American also,the count gets even Bigger.
you think FIBA is a better BB schooll to form Basketball players tham NCAA??

YES!

[Extra Stout]

USA Population: 300 million
Non-USA Population: nearly 6 billion

I wonder which pool is deeper?

[ArgSpursFan]

USA Population: 300 million
Non-USA Population: nearly 6 billion

I wonder which pool is deeper?

yeah buddy,but in the Olympics and world championships US don´t play vs the rest of the world,and still don´t get to the finals like they used to in the past every tournament.
see my point now?
why before there was such a US dominance and now no more?

[Extra Stout]

yeah buddy,but in the Olympics and world championships US don´t play vs the rest of the world,and still don´t get to the finals like they used to in the past every tournament.
see my point now?
why before there was such a US dominance and now no more?

Because fifteen years ago, the athletes around the world who love to play basketball, loved to play futbol instead.

The FIBA game is much more team-oriented than the American game, which has many more one- and two-man sets, and so a bunch of guys who have played together for years and are experienced in the FIBA rules have an advantage over guys who don't play together so much, and who aren't used to FIBA rules. Cohesive teams can beat superior talent.

It used to be the USA talent was so superior it could overcome this, but the world is catching up.

[ArgSpursFan]

So,there is no coincidence that Dirk is the MVP though.That was my argument to start this thread.