Enough, LeBron is not even the 3rd best wing in the NBA

[RobinsontoDuncan]

^LeBron's also shot over 1,000 more 3's in his career than Wade. Which is gonna make a pretty good dent in any field goal % comparison

which just makes wade smarter considering he has never really trailed James much as far as PPG are concerned. How can you say a guy that scores the same amount points more efficiently as a less talented player?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Right now I still put Kobe ahead of LeBron, because while LeBron's a better "overall player" the clutch rating of Kobe gives him the edge.
I mean really....if it comes down to lebron jacking up a shot against the Spurs to beat us, I am not NEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLL LLLLYYYY as nervous and jacked up as I am if Kobe takes that shot. Kobe has had more clutch shots in one season than LeBron has in his entire career. I know LeBron's younger than me, but he's still experienced already. He had one of the most amazing performances in the playoffs of all time, but if you can name one other player in this league who could do what he did, it would be Kobe. (Unless the team getting owned is the spurs, then maybe TMac coulda done it )

Kobe scares me because he has a killer instinct I have never seen in a wing EVER.
Overall, Lebron owns him, but if you put kobe in a position to win an important game, I give him the edge over LeBron in that same position. So, imo, that puts Kobe ahead of LeBron. For now.

[Dro210]

If you look at true shooting percentage, Wade and LeBron are pretty much tied throughout their career.

I did the math real quick..... If you take away the 3pt numbers out of the FG percentages, and here's what you get for their careers....

Wade: .497
Bron: .493


Yea, Wade's so much of a better shooter!! lmao

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I did the math real quick..... If you take away the 3pt numbers out of the FG percentages, and here's what you get for their careers....

Wade: .497
Bron: .493


Yea, Wade's so much of a better shooter!! lmao

Dude everyone on this thread has been saying Wade cant shoot. Did you take an argumentation class with Karl Rove or something?

[Dro210]

which just makes wade smarter considering he has never really trailed James much as far as PPG are concerned. How can you say a guy that scores the same amount points more efficiently as a less talented player?

Career PPG...

Wade: 23.8
Bron: 26.7

Wade's played about 60 less games (due to injury) that's why there's a descrepency in the amount of shots taken. As far as 3 pt. shots go... Wade doesn't take as many cause he can't make 'em. Simple as that. He shoots a horrible 25% for his career.


Where exactly are you trying to go with this?????

[timvp]

Right now I still put Kobe ahead of LeBron, because while LeBron's a better "overall player" the clutch rating of Kobe gives him the edge.
I mean really....if it comes down to lebron jacking up a shot against the Spurs to beat us, I am not NEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLL LLLLYYYY as nervous and jacked up as I am if Kobe takes that shot. Kobe has had more clutch shots in one season than LeBron has in his entire career. I know LeBron's younger than me, but he's still experienced already. He had one of the most amazing performances in the playoffs of all time, but if you can name one other player in this league who could do what he did, it would be Kobe. (Unless the team getting owned is the spurs, then maybe TMac coulda done it )

Kobe scares me because he has a killer instinct I have never seen in a wing EVER.
Overall, Lebron owns him, but if you put kobe in a position to win an important game, I give him the edge over LeBron in that same position. So, imo, that puts Kobe ahead of LeBron. For now.

Well, yeah if you have one fourth quarter or a couple possessions to win a game, Kobe might be the player to have at any position.

But Kobe is such a horrible teammate, leader and passer that he can't carry his team to situations that require being clutch anymore. Nowadays, Kobe clutch is against the Grizzlies in the regular season.

Without Shaq, all the flaws have been exposed in Kobe's game. Without a second superstar, Kobe probably can't even lead a team out of the first round anymore. Put LeBron on the Lakers with those teammates and Phil Jackson as coach, and the Lakers might would have beaten the Suns in the first round.

[Dro210]

Dude everyone on this thread has been saying Wade cant shoot. Did you take an argumentation class with Karl Rove or something?

What are you talkin about... I'm not arguing anything. I'm just stating facts.

and who said Wade can't shoot? He's deadly from 18 in

and wtf is Karl Rove?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Well, yeah if you have one fourth quarter or a couple possessions to win a game, Kobe might be the player to have at any position.

But Kobe is such a horrible teammate, leader and passer that he can't carry his team to situations that require being clutch anymore. Nowadays, Kobe clutch is against the Grizzlies in the regular season.

Without Shaq, all the flaws have been exposed in Kobe's game. Without a second superstar, Kobe probably can't even lead a team out of the first round anymore.

Tru dat, and if this were a "who would you start a franchise with" thread I'd definetly pick James and agree with all of yall. But, to me, that Killer Instinct is just so damn cool I have to give Kobe the edge.

But it is a very slight edge.


Speaking of Kobe's passing....remember his no-look passes against the spurs? Ahhh memories

[RobinsontoDuncan]

The discrepency in career points per game are from Wade's rookie season when he didnt get as many touches as LeBron. If you evaluate the two from their second seasons on you'll see almost no discrepency.

And wade's performances in the playoffs have been leaps and bounds above LeBron's playoff performances.

Even in 2005 when he was injured against the heat he had a pretty good series overall, and he hasnt been as poor of a shooter.

The best thing about wade is he doesnt stand with the ball for 14 seconds at the top of the key before settling for an offbalance jumper.

[timvp]

The best thing about wade is he doesnt stand with the ball for 14 seconds at the top of the key before settling for an offbalance jumper.

Yeah because he has the most dominant bigman in the history of the NBA as a teammate. LeBron has Eric Snow.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the Lakers go farther with LeBron instead of the concierge rapist.

[Dro210]

Wade has always had a good team.... LeBron still doesn't have a good team.

Or a coach that knows what to do with him (imo). That's why he's standing there for 14 seconds. I know this is an exaggeration, but when you watch the Cavs, it's like Mike Brown's game plan was "just go out there, play tough defense. And Bron, make something happen on offense, ok? ok... break!" Then everybody goes out there and is just watching LeBron. Not moving, hardly setting picks, just waiting like 4 Bruce Bowens for their open shot. Then when he passes it to 'em, that's it... it's like "oh , lebron passed me the ball, i better shoot it"... no extra passes, no getting it back to Bron... nothin.

That's gotta be hard to work with.

[michaelwcho]

Wade has always had a good team.... LeBron still doesn't have a good team.

Or a coach that knows what to do with him (imo).
That's gotta be hard to work with.

I wonder how much of that is just player control. LeBron made the comment that as long as they played D, they would be allowed to do whatever they wanted on O. We see the results.

Can you imagine someone on the Spurs saying that? It seems our boys follow orders almost like military recruits, whereas the norm is coaches begging their players to play right. Maybe that's why it seems we can beat teams more talented than us consistently.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I think my detractors here are not understanding the point of this thread (TimVP Dro210)

Im not arguing that LeBron isnt going to change the game, that he doesnt have the potential to be better than Kobe or Wade. What I am saying is that LeBron is not better than either right now.

Say what you will, but there is no way LeBron wins the championship if he was on the heat last year and not wade, he doesnt rise to the occasion consistantly enough (wheras wade has been a dominant 30 ppg scorer when his team needs it whenever he has been out there, with LeBron you just know he could possibly be like that)

Im not ducks, i dont hate LeBron, im just oblivious. Until he actually preforms that way i dont think he deserves the credit he gets, not just on this forum but in the media.

The fact remains that at 22 kobe bryant was one of a better player in the playoffs than Lebron is now.

[Kori Ellis]

The fact remains that at 22 kobe bryant was one of a better player in the playoffs than Lebron is now.

And he was playing with Shaq and much better teammates than LeBron has.

[timvp]

I think my detractors here are not understanding the point of this thread (TimVP Dro210)

Im not arguing that LeBron isnt going to change the game, that he doesnt have the potential to be better than Kobe or Wade. What I am saying is that LeBron is not better than either right now.

Say what you will, but there is no way LeBron wins the championship if he was on the heat last year and not wade, he doesnt rise to the occasion consistantly enough (wheras wade has been a dominant 30 ppg scorer when his team needs it whenever he has been out there, with LeBron you just know he could possibly be like that)

Im not ducks, i dont hate LeBron, im just oblivious. Until he actually preforms that way i dont think he deserves the credit he gets, not just on this forum but in the media.

The fact remains that at 22 kobe bryant was one of a better player in the playoffs than Lebron is now.

Do you realize that everyone in your post that you're comparing LeBron to had Shaq on their team? Wade last year and Kobe at 22 had Shaq. That's a huuuuuuuuge part of the equation.

When defending against a team with Shaq, your first, second and third priorities are stopping Shaq from dunking. That's why literally every place Shaq has gone, a superstar shooting guard has emerged. Penny, Kobe and now Wade. Penny and Kobe were both exposed when Shaq left.

You are acting like you are comparing these guys in a vacuum when in fact it's a totally unfair comparison. Put Shaq on any team and a superstar will emerge just because of the fact that defenses have to focus all their efforts at stopping the man in the middle.

Kobe is a very good player, Wade is a very good player, Penny was a very good player. But none of the three are as good as Shaq made them look. None of those three can win a championship with a team built around them. LeBron is 4 wins away from doing that.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

He was also playing tougher compe ion with higher expectations and more distractions. Kobe Bryant was facing down Bruce in 2001-02 and delivering the goods (maybe my math isnt great but wasnt he 23 that year?) when was the last time LeBron had that kind of defence to worry about?

Team success not withstanding, Kobe Bryant was playing much better ball by the same time in his career than LeBron is now, just because he had shaq on his team shouldnt discredit his better FT%, his better range, his more consistant shooting, and the fact that he played smarter, more consistant basketball.

[timvp]

He was also playing tougher compe ion with higher expectations and more distractions. Kobe Bryant was facing down Bruce in 2001-02 and delivering the goods (maybe my math isnt great but wasnt he 23 that year?) when was the last time LeBron had that kind of defence to worry about?

Team success not withstanding, Kobe Bryant was playing much better ball by the same time in his career than LeBron is now, just because he had shaq on his team shouldnt discredit his better FT%, his better range, his more consistant shooting, and the fact that he played smarter, more consistant basketball.

Much smarter? LeBron has a higher basketball IQ than Kobe has ever had.

And you take Shaq off those teams and the Lakers don't even make the playoffs.

[timvp]

And Steve Smith had a better FT%, better range and was a more consistent shooter. Does that make him better than LeBron too?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Do you realize that everyone in your post that you're comparing LeBron to had Shaq on their team? Wade last year and Kobe at 22 had Shaq. That's a huuuuuuuuge part of the equation.

When defending against a team with Shaq, your first, second and third priorities are stopping Shaq from dunking. That's why literally every place Shaq has gone, a superstar shooting guard has emerged. Penny, Kobe and now Wade. Penny and Kobe were both exposed when Shaq left.

You are acting like you are comparing these guys in a vacuum when in fact it's a totally unfair comparison. Put Shaq on any team and a superstar will emerge just because of the fact that defenses have to focus all their efforts at stopping the man in the middle.

Kobe is a very good player, Wade is a very good player, Penny was a very good player. But none of the three are as good as Shaq made them look. None of those three can win a championship with a team built around them. LeBron is 4 wins away from doing that.

Shaq in 2006 wasnt a very dominant player, wade got them where they went and shaq went along for the ride.

And you must have skimmed over my post timvp, all im saying is that right now, LeBron isnt the best wing player in the league

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Much smarter? LeBron has a higher basketball IQ than Kobe has ever had.

And you take Shaq off those teams and the Lakers don't even make the playoffs.

what? Kobe has had a worse supporting cast the past two season than he had in the championship years (newsflash LJ, they made the playoffs)

[Marcus Bryant]

Let me know when Ilgauskas starts making movies, becomes deputized, and cuts a track with the Fu Schnickens or whatever.

[T Park]

let me know the last time shaq went 1 of 8 in a finals game like Big Z.

RobinsontoDuncan your so far off its not even funny, quit while your ahead.

[timvp]

Shaq in 2006 wasnt a very dominant player, wade got them where they went and shaq went along for the ride.

You still had to make stopping 2006 Shaq your number 1 priority if you were another team. You don't stop Shaq and he was still dominant enough to beat you.

With that much energy and focus on one player, that leaves wings open to operate. From Penny, to Kobe and now Wade.

And you must have skimmed over my post timvp, all im saying is that right now, LeBron isnt the best wing player in the league

I'm saying he is. What wing could you put on the Cavs in replace of LeBron and expect them to make the Finals? You put Kobe on the Cavs and he'd just go on every radio station in the country crying about how little talent he has in his supporting cast. Wade, if he wasn't injured, doesn't have the size or stamina to play the role LeBron is playing. Put Carmelo on the Cavs and they might have given the Celtics and Grizzlies a run for their money.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Much smarter? LeBron has a higher basketball IQ than Kobe has ever had.

How do you come to that conclusion btw