The Traded Reviewed Again

[ArgSpursFan]

The thing is....in the 2002 WC...when Manu got injured...who stepped up out of Scola and Oberto? On offense....Oberto did, not Scola. Scola was yonger then..but still, he didn't step up...he stepped down. Oberto stepped up.

Scola hasn't done any kind of stepping up without Manu...Can he play better on Manu's team? Sure...but so can my grandma...that doesn't mean they are equal.

Don´t forget that Scola is way younger tham Fabricio.
In 2002 Oberto was on his Prime and Scola was only 21.
Right now Scola has the same age tham Oberto in 2002.So watch out.

[sandman]

Everyone is giving Scola credit for Manu's achievements...I know. Even the Argies are doing it...when their careers obviously speak for themselves....

One guy wins no matter where he goes, championships, whether it be as a star, or a supporting player, off the bench, or in the starters slot, he always finds a way to make his teams the best...and the other guy has only won when he's been on Manu's team. The rest of the time he has faltered.

One guy is the Man(u)...and the other guy isn't.

I wanted Scola to come to the Spurs because I thought that he could have been a great addition to what we already had - a championship level team. I have been weighing in on these threads because there are some who think that we gave the Rockets the thing that they were missing to make them a championship level team. That is simply not the case. They got an offensive minded power forward to go with their offensive minded center to run an offensive minded scheme. Quite simply, they do not have a balanced roster because they lack the team speed to run an uptempo style. They are hoping to run a high post big man passing game to make up for their lack of speed and defense. That right there is enough to say that the Rockets have not propelled themselves into the Finals talk. The deal is sealed when people start making comments about Butler this season getting serious minutes on this team.

[sandman]

Don´t forget that Scola is way younger tham Fabricio.
In 2002 Oberto was on his Prime and Scola was only 21.
Right now Scola has the same age tham Oberto in 2002.So watch out.

What exactly are your expectations for Scola on this team? That he will supercede either TMac or Yao as a scoring option? That he will be the formidable defensive presence that they need to anchor their defense? That he will add toughness and bang bodies?

Because if he doesn't do any one of those things, I am not sure what to watch out for. Does he have the potential to be a really good player? Sure. Sean Elliott was a really good player, but everyone knew that he was third fiddle to DRob and Duncan. Sean never dominated, he complimented. You are setting expectations too high if you think this will be Scola's team.

[whottt]

Duncan is the best PF ever,on Offense and D.Not questions about it.
But,Does Scola make the Rockets better tham what they were?I think He does.
reasons why:
1-He wont be the main guy.That takes pressure out of him,just like in the Arg.national team.
2-High BBIQ.Adelmar knows that,and will try to explote that out of him and Yao too.
3-Big Heart.The guy is a warrior,He gives 110% night in and out,like most of Argies in the NBA.

Of course He wont be a franshise player,but he can be a 15/7 guy,and If Adelmar can make him a better passer tham what He alreay is,can average 3/4 apg also.

He might make them better offensively...but they are a bad offensive team, their success last year was because of their defense. They are totally and completely changing direction....going from a defensive team to an offensive team....he helps them, but it's not going to be enough to make them Champions. Not right now anyway...some of their guys young guys may step up...I don't know...Bonzi can play like a SuperStar at times...he's the one that makes the most nervous...we should have held out for him in the trade. Just to get him off their freaking roster.

I just don't see it...it's like replacing Oberto with Scola and expecting the Spurs to be better because Scola is a better offensive player/worse defensive player...the Spurs don't win championships because of their offense so how much good is going to do to help it...at the expense of what does win them championships...their D?

[Mr. Body]

Defenders of The Trade trying to make out like this has made Houston worse.

[whottt]

Defenders of The Trade trying to make out like this has made Houston worse.

It makes their defense worse...and they are a defensive team. Is it really so hard to understand?

[ArgSpursFan]

What exactly are your expectations for Scola on this team? That he will supercede either TMac or Yao as a scoring option? That he will be the formidable defensive presence that they need to anchor their defense? That he will add toughness and bang bodies?

Because if he doesn't do any one of those things, I am not sure what to watch out for. Does he have the potential to be a really good player? Sure. Sean Elliott was a really good player, but everyone knew that he was third fiddle to DRob and Duncan. Sean never dominated, he complimented. You are setting expectations too high if you think this will be Scola's team.

I see Scola giving the Rockets something that they didn´t have:a big heart and a couple of big balls.
When you have a guy who gives 110 % night in and night out,it motivates the rest of the team to do so.
He wont be the main guy,and he loves that.
He probably be the 3rd or 4rd scoring option,but I see Him passing the ball well,and averaging about 4 apg.

[whottt]

Defenders of The Trade trying to make out like this has made Houston worse.

It's good to see you have such a sense of humor...Robertas...it helps you get through the rough times...

[ArgSpursFan]

It makes their defense worse...and they are a defensive team. Is it really so hard to understand?

they wanna be more offensive this year.

[sandman]

I see Scola giving the Rockets something that they didn´t have:a big heart and a couple of big balls.
When you have a guy who gives 110 % night in and night out,it motivates the rest of the team to do so.
He wont be the main guy,and he loves that.
He probably be the 3rd or 4rd scoring option,but I see Him passing the ball well,and averaging about 4 apg.

Sounds like you could be describing Oberto...

[sandman]

Defenders of The Trade trying to make out like this has made Houston worse.

Nonsense. No one is saying that he has made them worse. He made their defense worse, because he is not a shot blocker or a rebounder. Those are something critical for a power forward, especially when the center on the team is not known for those qualities either. I don't care how much this team will be able to score, pass, move without the ball. Their front line is defensively very weak. As PHX how that same scheme has worked out for them, and they are MUCH quicker than the Rockets.

[Mr. Body]

It's good to see you have such a sense of humor...Robertas...it helps you get through the rough times...

Give it up. Javtokas would have been better than Butler, wouldn't he?

Yeah, thought so.

Meanwhile, you contort yourself to defend this trade, coming up with truly bizarre reasons to do so.

[whottt]

they wanna be more offensive this year.

It's like needing a better piece for your car engine to win a race, and adding a shiny new horn instead. The horn may be prettier and make more noise than the engine piece...but it's not going to make the engine better.

[sandman]

Give it up. Javtokas would have been better than Butler, wouldn't he?

Yeah, thought so.

Meanwhile, you contort yourself to defend this trade, coming up with truly bizarre reasons to do so.

Is it really defending the trade, or just pointing out the excessiveness of the extremes of some opinions here. We all wanted Scola to be a Spur, but quite frankly his departure did not make the Spurs any less of a championship level team, nor did his arrival in Houston vault them to the top of the Vegas odds. There is a happy medium. Spurs risked the future with the trade and Houston got a good complementary player.

[whottt]

Give it up. Javtokas would have been better than Butler, wouldn't he?

Yeah, thought so.

Meanwhile, you contort yourself to defend this trade, coming up with truly bizarre reasons to do so.

Ehh...I don't see anything that was a lot better they could have done..and if nothing else getting Butler's salary off the books for next season helps us have more money if we can't do anything this year...

It didn't make the Rockets better in the way they needed to get better IMO...adding offense at the expense of their defense doesn't make them more threatening...adding offense while maintaining the defense is what would have made them more threatening...and the offensive upgrade isn't going to be near what you think it will be...

Do you think Scola is going to be as good a Juwan Howard? And don't say Juwan chokes...because Scola does too.

[hater]

It makes their defense worse...and they are a defensive team. Is it really so hard to understand?

their defense will be 10x worse. but 99% because of the fact that VanGundy is gone, not because of Scola

[whottt]

Give it up. Javtokas would have been better than Butler, wouldn't he?

Not for 3 mil per hear he wouldn't have been. He would't have gotten off the bench either...

I agree he has the skill set the Spurs need more than Butler...but once we got Elson Javtokas had nothing to offer us that Elson couldn't. They are both boneheads with athleticism...and Elson has the experience...he also hasn't had his body destroyed a motorcycle wreck. I liked Javtokas....more than Butler...but Elson was what made him redundant. Elson does everything better.

[whottt]

their defense will be 10x worse. but 99% because of the fact that VanGundy is gone, not because of Scola

That's a fair statement...I'd say it's more like 75% 25%...I don't think their D will be 10 times worse though, Adelman's not an idiot.

[sandman]

their defense will be 10x worse. but 99% because of the fact that VanGundy is gone, not because of Scola

Exactly. Adleman runs a different scheme that is more offensive minded, which is good for players like Yao and TMac that are offensive minded players. One would think that they would look for the 4 spot to be manned by a banger to help keep some semblance of defensive legitimacy. Right now between Yao, TMac, Scola, James and Battier, Shane is the only one who can play defense at a high level.

[AFBlue]

That's a fair statement...I'd say it's more like 75% 25%...I don't think their D will be 10 times worse though, Adelman's not an idiot.

And my ultimate point is that their offense will improve more than their defense will suffer...making them a better team overall.

But to label them a "defensive team" isn't right.

They WERE a "defensive team", but I would say that stereotyped pigeonhole goes out the window with them hiring Adelman and bringing in more offensive firepower.

[lotr1trekkie]

"Scola wiil be a star, 20 and 10, all star, rookie of the year, better than Zab etc." Wake up! If the Spurs really wanted him for what Houston is giving him we would have done it BUT---the Spurs don't need someone to come in for Tim which would have been Scola's position. We have Horry. Scola isn't a center like Fab. Scola would have sat on the bench behind Horry and Bonner until he adapted to our system. If Scola was good enough to start for us that would make Tim the center. OK, geniuses, sign Luis the Great and unload Zab and Elson. Tim always wanted to give way to a PF better than him. As for Butler he was traded so Yao could beat someone down the court during drills. Houston has also bit on Bonzi NotsoWells and Mike[ 5 team] James. The Spurs main problem is filling up the IR. White and Williams really showed next to nothing in both summer leagues. Ely and Big Baby are gone. WE all know that Mahinmi sucks. I just hope that someof the listers start to use their homeground vocabulary when they include Popovich in their insults. No MAJOR decisions are made without his approval. If Pop thought that Scola should be here this year he would be! Show some spine and go after Pop for these decisions.

[whottt]

And my ultimate point is that their offense will improve more than their defense will suffer...making them a better team overall.

And their offense isn't going to be improved as much as you think it will be...because they weren't built to be an offensive team....offensive teams get up and down the court, and the Rockets franchise player can't do that.

And...

Defense wins championships...giving up defense for offense hasn't been successful a single time that I can remember...giving up offense for defense, is something that has been.

Sin,

US

And Dallas as they got more compe ive against us, and the Suns.

They didn't have a championship defense anyway....and they were a bad offensive team.

But to label them a "defensive team" isn't right.

They WERE a "defensive team", but I would say that stereotyped pigeonhole goes out the window with them hiring Adelman and bringing in more offensive firepower.

Again...Yao aint Amare...or even Vlade. They aren't going to be putting up 110 a game if Yao is playing 35 mins per game....unless they know how to score 4 on 5.

[whottt]

It's like replacing Bruce Bowen with Michael Finley...no thanks.

[pad300]

Lets have a quick review of the real world shall we -

Scola's replacing either A) Juwan Howard or B) Chuck Hayes in the starting lineup (assuming he doesn't bust). Howard is old (33 last season), has bad knees, and was never renowned as a defender. His main claim to fame is being massively overpaid for slightly above average production by a stupid GM...Chuck Hayes is a great kid, has a real nose for rebounds, and a non-stop motor. That said he's 6'6". He's also not the saviest, most skilled guy around. He's no defensive beast either (his opponents PER while playing PF is 16.5, http://www.82games.com/0607/06HOU10C.HTM).

I don't think anyone is disputing that Scola's better offensively. I'm not at all sure that he isn't a better option defensively. Remember, having Yao acting as backup in the paint is useful. Sure Yao lumbers, but he's A) HUGE and B) he actually tries hard, unlike half the bigmen in he NBA.

[sandman]

Lets have a quick review of the real world shall we -

Scola's replacing either A) Juwan Howard or B) Chuck Hayes in the starting lineup (assuming he doesn't bust). Howard is old (33 last season), has bad knees, and was never renowned as a defender. His main claim to fame is being massively overpaid for slightly above average production by a stupid GM...Chuck Hayes is a great kid, has a real nose for rebounds, and a non-stop motor. That said he's 6'6". He's also not the saviest, most skilled guy around. He's no defensive beast either (his opponents PER while playing PF is 16.5, http://www.82games.com/0607/06HOU10C.HTM).

I don't think anyone is disputing that Scola's better offensively. I'm not at all sure that he isn't a better option defensively. Remember, having Yao acting as backup is useful. Sure Yao lumbers, but he's A) HUGE and B) he actually tries hard, unlike half the bigmen in he NBA.

Would it be a correct premise to state that unless Scola scores more than Howard and Hayes combined, they essentially remained neutral at the position?

Howard - 5.0 PPG/4.4 RPG
Hayes - 3.7 PPG/6.4 RPG

Howard is already gone and Hayes is a free agent. Considering Scola would take the majority of minutes logged by both players, he would need to be at least a 10-10 guy just to keep up the same level of production. I don't doubt that he could probably get the 10 PPG, but the 10 RPG would be an unrealistic expectation, considering he has never done it.