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The thing is, I really had the hope, that the Spurs FO knew somthing the fans did not. And I still hope they do make a move that makes this trade look a little better...
While this take may be a little over the top, I think it's closer to hitting its mark than other takes where the writers think the Spurs can do no wrong.The Knicks were hit with a $45 million luxury tax bill on Friday for their 2006-07 payroll. That same day, San Antonio made a move to ensure that they incur little or no tax next season. Ordinarily that would make the Spurs look smart, but consider the move. They traded the rights to Euroball star Luis Scola and young pivotman Jackie Butler to the Houston Rockets for Greek point guard Vassilis Spanoulis, a 2009 second-round draft choice, and cash.
The move probably sends the foreigners in different directions. Spanoulis clashed with former Rocket coach Jeff Van Gundy and sulked at the end of the Houston bench for most of the season. Even after Van Gundy was let go, he failed to change his tune and asked out of his contract. His agent foreshadowed the deal by announcing that his client could start for the Spurs, and he'd still rather return to Europe. Perhaps that illustrated the problem. Even if Tony Parker and Eva Longoria decide to take a yearlong honeymoon, Spanoulis was coming nowhere near the Spurs' starting lineup. And the Spurs will likely grant him his wish and use the cash obtained in the deal to buy him out.
Meanwhile, the Rockets made out like bandits. Scola has long been regarded as one of the best Euros waiting to get into the NBA. And he has not waited patiently. Drafted by the Spurs in 2002, Scola wanted in, but San Antonio refused to buy out his contract in the Spanish leagues. Frustrated, his agent said "in the country of liberty, my client is a prisoner."
If he's half as good at hoops as he is at playing the press, Scola will be a star, but he isn't the real steal. It's Butler. As Knicks' faithful know, Butler was one of the few memorable aspects of the Larry Brown debacle. A Development League find by team president Isiah Thomas, Butler averaged 15.8 points and 9.9 boards per 40 minutes of action. With the Knicks locked into centers Eddy Curry and Jerome James, the Spurs were able to slip in last summer and ink Butler to a threeyear, $8 million dollar deal that the Knicks chose not to match (if they had, their luxury tax bill would have been higher). However, Butler, at 6-foot-10-inches and 265 pounds on a good day, showed up out of shape for San Antonio and spent the year at the end of the bench. The trade to Houston, where he figures to get major minutes at the power forward spot, is his new lease on NBA life.
Although this trade seems to strengthen a key rival, the Spurs can be given a bit of leeway, as they are the NBA champions.
http://www.nysun.com/article/58534
The thing is, I really had the hope, that the Spurs FO knew somthing the fans did not. And I still hope they do make a move that makes this trade look a little better...
It seems "over the top" because it only hits the mark for those who feel that this trade was a huge mistake.
It seems that everyone wants to either say that this trade was a complete bust, or that the spurs make no mistakes.
I think there's a happy medium. There's no guarantee Scola is going to be the next big thing and lead the rockets over the spurs in the playoffs, so why act like it?
The spurs FO may may mistakes, but for those on here(spurstalk) to act like they could do any better is a joke.
For people to say that they are worthless, and incompetent after seeing what they've accomplished up to this point is sheer stupidity.
In this specific case, I don't think that's true. Unless somehow Butler and Scola bust or the Spurs use the money to do something else, a dead person could have made a better trade than the Spurs just made.The spurs FO may may mistakes, but for those on here(spurstalk) to act like they could do any better is a joke.
You act as if Scola and Butler ARE a sure thing, you also act as if the offseason has completed.
If no other moves are made, then we go into next season with a championship roster and the Trade was a terrible one. But I wouldnt go replacing the FO with dead people just yet.
Where did I say that? By saying IF they are busts doesn't mean I think they are sure things. Chances are probably one of them is good while one of them fails to live up to expectations.
It could be. The Spurs are now under the luxury tax. They could roll into the season with the roster they have plus Mahinmi.
I'm not following what you are saying but the Spurs chances of winning the championship didn't increase or decrease with this trade. That said, you don't do a trade that has no upside and gives the other team a risk free acquisition.
So, this writer is saying that Rockets will play "major minutes" with a Butler/Yao frontcourt.
"unless somehow" sounds a little bit different than "if" they bust. I'm quoting you, not pulling things out of thin air.
The fact that they are currently making offers to players shows that this offseason isnt over. I'm not saying that the FO doesnt make mistakes, i'm just saying that people need to wait and let it play out.
This trade might not look the best, but dont act like you know what the FO is doing, or not doing, right.
If you are going to bold the first part, you have to bold the "and" as well. What are the chances that Scola and Butler are both busts the rest of their career? Probably much less than the chance that one of them becomes a quality starter in the league.
Agreed, but lets wait and see WHY they let go of Scola and butler go for so little before we declare the spurs FO and holt incompetent.
Yeah, I've said that all along.
But as of now with no other move justifying it, The Trade is going to be a hard one for Spurs fans to digest until they see what, if anything, follows it.
The Rockets have 4 slow bigmen timvp...I think Butler is the fastest one.... it might be Mutombo.
At least your boy Bonner is going to get on the court though...and Oberto is as fast as any of them.
Elson is going to look like he comes from a different planet against these guys...
I'll also have a tough time digesting it if the worst possible scenario comes to fruition, i expect that from all spurs fans...
but i'm not going to act like the last 10 years didnt happen, and happen with this same core of FO personnel.
What this all boils down to is that you think a second round pick would have been better than the 7 mil or what ever...
I think the Spurs were legitimately interested in Vassilis, ...and figured a shot at signing him is better than anyone else they were being offered, I am 100% certain of that after seeing the kid play...and if not...the money is better than the second round pick...since the last second round pick make our roster was the 99 pick.
I just don't get the outrage over this trade...except you guys think we could get more than we got...and don't like the Rockets....or else you wanted to get nothing. And you'd rather develop guys that don't fit, or hold on to ones that don't want to be here, or don't have skills to complement the existing core...
What?
What more could we have gotten?
And how are any of the trades we turned down less of a threat to our le chances than Scola on the Rockets?
Giving the Cavs a PG(help with Bibby) or SCola? That scares me more...giving one to the Bulls? That scares me more.
You know what the #1 thing we can do to help us...even agains the Rockets and Cavs is?
Get someone to put on TMac and Banzi and LeBron etc...what guy did we turn down that could help us there?
Hey...I read the Sonics are going after PJ Brown...why not Butler? Or Scola? How come no Chuck Hayes if Butler and Scola are so good?
Ask Kupchak how that not trading to a divisional rival thing turned out for him...
Spurs FO, even limited by Holt>timvp and MB imitating GhostWriter
Holting Pattern Redux < the first time I read it.
There was never anything wrong with the Holting Pattern...it was that blind mad pursuit of the Second Superstar that screwed us up and nearly every blunder by the FO you guys point out...is tied into the pursuit of Kidd. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the Spurs have done here. Cap space is a good thing...it's let's you get guys like Robert Horry etc...when Kidd stands you up. Plenty of teams with bloated payrolls and tons of over-rated star players around the NBA...me? I'll take 3 les in 5 years...just about as good as any NBA team has ever been.
Last edited by whottt; 07-17-2007 at 06:17 AM.
Same rep that Butler came to the Spurs with, yet Pop wasn't impressed. I think Butler and Milicic are a lot a like - lots of potential, yet mysteriously no coach seems to be able to manifest that potential. If Pop and Larry Brown can't bring it out in Butler, I don't think Van Gundy will be able to.
van Gundy got canned. Butler is now Rick Adelman's project.
I just see the trade as the Spurs having two assets that didn't fit quite right and getting rid of them to open up a slot for one player who does fit them. If Ludden is right and they knew Spanoulis would forfeit the $1.9M commitment, the cash doesn't have to go to the buyout and the Spurs are now freer to get a player that fits them, even if another move is needed.
I may be wrong about this and the Spurs may not make another player move, but I would be very disappointed in the closet-cleaning of at least one Armani.
Last edited by Solid D; 07-17-2007 at 08:17 AM.
Once again, it doesn't really matter what Butler and Scola do, a dead person could have done better because of their worth right now.
I think we've already established that 6 million dollars is why they let them go.
Odd, but here is what comes to mind about Butler.
It's the old commercial. The guy is sitting at a table in a Chinese Restaurant with an all-you-can-eat buffet. The Chinese guy comes over to the table and says "Big Boy..You leave now..You been here for fo our".
I think that's what they see as the problem with Butler, not being able to keep the weight off. The first SL game I watched he seemed to be huffing and puffing before the end of the 1st quarter. I think they just decided he would never be able to keep in shape and that isn't going to cut it on a Spurs squad.
Scola, I think it just came down to the fact they had put up with the demands to be brought over, knowing they had no place for him to fit on the roster, so they took what they could get for him and hoped they could find a piece they needed.
I think Butler will probably never reach his potential in the NBA.
Scola, well, we'll just have to wait and see if he is as good as many think he will be.
I look at it this way. Yes the Spur could have gotten more in return. When I say more I mean at least some marginal talent but it would have come with a contract. That marginal talent probably wouldn't have done that much for this team other than soak up a roster spot for a couple of year while eating some of the cap space to boot.
I don't think mid level to upper level talent was ever available in any trade scenario. So rather than have another contract on the books with a player that has mediocore to long shot talent they simply choose to have nothing and look to the future with less in cap space and a free roster spot.
Scola wasn't coming anyway the bridge was burned at some point.
Observations from living in Houston:
Local media/fans are creaming their shorts over both Scola and Butler, talking about how they will both be major components to making a championship run. They are very much excited about the POTENTIAL of both players, and unfortunately, they are setting expectations based on that potential. You know, like some Spurs fans this last year.
Yes, Scola is a proven international player. Yes, Butler showed in NY that he has game (at least in the Eastern Conf.). However, through all the crowing I am hearing here in Houston about how the Rockets got one over on the Spurs, it ALMOST seems as if they completely and utterly fail to realize that neither of these players contributed one iota to the championship run this last year.
IMO, the Spurs did not weaken their team for this year because of that fact. Did we weaken the future of the team? We won't know that until we get down the road a bit. That is the thing about potential: it can kick you in the balls. I think that some of the contention with trading away both bigs was that the Spurs consistently pick in the lower range of the first round, and there are only so many time we can get lucky with late picks.
Scola seems like one of those lucky picks, but to your point, it did not seem like he was going to be a good fit for the Spurs for some reason. Butler, as a FA pickup, was obviously not progressing as they thought he should. It doesn't make either of them scrubs; nor are they both sure things that will haunt us forever. In a situation where the Spurs needed to either keep playing the gamble of getting lucky in late rounds, or setting themselves up both financially and with the roster spots to go after a big FA signing, it would seem that they chose the FA route, even it won't be until next year.
And for what it is worth, the Rockets still won't make it out of the first round for two reasons:
1. Their PG's are Mike James and Skip To My Lou
2. A glacier could outrun most of the Rocket's big men
Re Butler: "Scola will be a star, but he isn't the real steal. It's Butler. .. The trade to Houston, where he figures to get major minutes at the power forward spot, is his new lease on NBA life."
Do you see Butler as a PF --and further getting major minutes there when they have Scola? Did this really hit the mark.
How many new leases on life does this guy need?
Seriously, this groupthink is being propogated all over town here in Houston. Houston is the third team to see the "potential" in Butler, never mind that he could not crack perhaps the weakest center rotation on a championship team since the Bulls teams that had Purdue, Wennington and Longely.
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