20pts - 5reb - 5ast players

[exstatic]

This is also why I think Parker may decline at an earlier age than most people expect. He's pretty young too, but those minutes (especially considering he's been in the playoffs every year since he came into the league) will take their toll sooner or later.

His effectiveness at the rim will probably be curtailed, but I doubt that injuries will be the reason, a la a high flyer like Kobe. Tony has also taken steps to ensure that he doesn't have to finish at the rim: the teardrop and the jumper. Even with his early entry at 19, I think that by the time his athleticism begins to decline, he'll be smart enough player to still be very effective. While he's played more minutes than Manu, he could never be described as playing "heavy NBA minutes". This year is his highest average minutes, and he's only playing 34.9. Most All Star calibur players play in the neighborhood of 38-39 minutes. Doesn't sound like a huge difference, but if you take Tony's career 33 mpg and compare it to another player's 38 mpg, that 5 mpg X 80 games, or about 400 extra minutes, or 10+ extra games for the other player, per season. Pop is a genius for managing the Spurs minutes.

[stretch]

Newsflash: Tim ain't playing for right now, and Parker is up and down. Manu is the rock for the Spurs right now.

Oh, and I don't think anyone one this list is going to score "25-30 ppg on 50% shooting" on Manu's 12 FGA per game. That's an impossibility. You'd have to shoot 100% (24pts) and get a bunch of And1s and shoot well on those, too. Manu doesn't break the offense, yet puts up nice numbers in a reduced role. Kobe could NEVER do that. , he didn't even want to split the shots TWO ways, with Shaq. His pride would never allow him to be one of three options on offense.

When did anyone say shotting 12 times a game? I merely mention the amount of time.

And you're a ing moron to say that just because Tim isn't playing at the high level he usually does, that his presence makes no difference. There is no player in the league who's presence has a bigger effect on their team than Tim Duncan.

Don't forget that Shaq didn't want to give up shots to Kobe either. Tim would be a MUCH better fit as a teammate of Kobe's than Shaq, because Tim doesn't need the ball to be effect like Shaq did, and is a much better teammate and leader than Shaq ever was. Tim Duncan is IMO the greatest teammate and leader in NBA history.

[stretch]

Give Manu as many touches as Kobe gets a game and he probably averages 27 a night.

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

[stretch]

This is a summary of your overall lack of understanding of basketball. I recommend you to pull the calculator and rethink your post.

I recommend you as well as the other 40 posters here trying to debate with me, to prove to me that Tim Duncan does not help improve Manu's game, and that Manu would be just as effective without Tim Duncan.

[stretch]

It's a lot easier for Terry to be efficient when you have a great PF in the NBA playing with you, as opposed to Kwame Brown or Drew Gooden. Not to mention Harris> Daniel Gibson/Derek Fisher, Josh Howard > Larry Hughes/Luke Walton, as well as a loaded bench, as opposed to two teams with zero bench. Simply replace Terry with Kobe, and Kobe would probably 40-50 ppg on 80% shooting in the same amount of time as Terry.

Terry is simply having a hot start, and it will die down. The other guys mentioned are always just that good.

Unfortunately for your argument, no one was talking about Jason Terry having a hot start, were we dip ?

[hitmanyr2k]

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

Cmon...he would average 20+ a night easily lol...especially with more playing time and touches. His efficiency would dip no doubt but 20 points is a cakewalk for swingmen today. The rules are catered to them.

[E20]

Unfortunately for your argument, no one was talking about the opnion of a dumbass mavs fan having a say, were we dip ?

[stretch]

Unfortunately for your argument, no one was talking about the opnion of a dumbass mavs fan having a say, were we dip ?

Yes. We were.

[stretch]

Cmon...he would average 20+ a night easily lol...especially with more playing time and touches. His efficiency would dip no doubt but 20 points is a cakewalk for swingmen today. The rules are catered to them.

I think he would maybe average around 20-22 a night, but like you said, if he does, its on a far lower shooting %, more in the mid to low 40s because he won't have the easy shots and layups that he gets from the picks Duncan sets, or the opponents double teaming and focusing their defensive attention on Timmy all the time.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and Manu would average close to 30 PPG! Playing on an excellent team with 2 other great scoring options doesn't help Manu's PPG... it hurts it.

Your logic isn't, well... logical.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

I think he would maybe average around 20-22 a night, but like you said, if he does, its on a far lower shooting %, more in the mid to low 40s because he won't have the easy shots and layups that he gets from the picks Duncan sets, or the opponents double teaming and focusing their defensive attention on Timmy all the time.

Yeah, because Manu only makes the easy shots. It's not like we see the guy get the knocked out of him on a nightly basis as he pinballs his way through the lane or anything. You obviously watch a lot of Spurs basketball. Why, I'm sure you hardly ever miss a game.

[stretch]

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and Manu would average close to 30 PPG! Playing on an excellent team with 2 other great scoring options doesn't help Manu's PPG... it hurts it.

Your logic isn't, well... logical.

[E20]

What is stretch trying to argue? Ginobili can't score without Duncan or Parker? Because he does and he can. Ginobili plays with the 2nd unit for the bulk of the 1st half and 3rd quarter and is present with TP/TD during the 4Q. So, I don't see much for debate. Ginobili has always been a proven scorer when he gets touches. This year he had 3 months of rest which has given him fresh legs and energy. Ginobil has even said multiple times that his level of play is thanks to all the rest he has gotten and has said he's gonna see how he feels and plays at the end of the year. He usually plays better towards the end of the year/PO's.

[stretch]

What is stretch trying to argue? Ginobili can't score without Duncan or Parker? Because he does and he can. Ginobili plays with the 2nd unit for the bulk of the 1st half and 3rd quarter and is present with TP/TD during the 4Q. So, I don't see much for debate. Ginobili has always been a proven scorer when he gets touches. This year he had 3 months of rest which has given him fresh legs and energy. Ginobil has even said multiple times that his level of play is thanks to all the rest he has gotten and has said he's gonna see how he feels and plays at the end of the year. He usually plays better towards the end of the year/PO's.

I never once said he can't score without Duncan or Parker. My point is that would not be as effective or efficient as the numbers show, without Duncan. Can you argue that? Can you honestly say that he would be just as good of a player without Tim Duncan playing with him? I don't think there is a player in NBA history that would improve without playing alongside Tim Duncan. I have always had nothing but the best things to say about Duncan, including that he is the greatest PF and teammate of all time. I don't think there is a better player in NBA history at making his teammates better by making things easier for them. If anything, many of you Spurs fans should be happy, since many people here have said that Duncan doesn't get the respect he deserves. I think it is very arguable that you can say that Tim Duncan is the second greatest player in NBA history, behind Michael Jordan, and in my list, he is.

[E20]

I never once said he can't score without Duncan or Parker. My point is that would not be as effective or efficient as the numbers show, without Duncan. Can you argue that? Can you honestly say that he would be just as good of a player without Tim Duncan playing with him? I don't think there is a player in NBA history that would improve without playing alongside Tim Duncan. I have always had nothing but the best things to say about Duncan, including that he is the greatest PF and teammate of all time. I don't think there is a better player in NBA history at making his teammates better by making things easier for them. If anything, many of you Spurs fans should be happy, since many people here have said that Duncan doesn't get the respect he deserves. I think it is very arguable that you can say that Tim Duncan is the second greatest player in NBA history, behind Michael Jordan, and in my list, he is.

What about Brent Barry? He's had better seasons in Seattle and led the league in 3PT% in Seattle this has nothing to do with the argument, just wanted to point a misnomer.

Tim Duncan puts pressure off of Ginobili in the 4thQ, but what about when Duncan is off the floor? When the offense runs through Ginobili with the 2nd unit. That's the sole reason for Manu to come off the bench -- to give the team a scoring threat while resting Duncan/Parker. I'm willing to say taht Ginobili scores most of his 20 PPG and does his work with Duncan and/or Parker on the bench, because that is when he gets the most touches.

Also, I agree that Tim Duncan makes the game much easier for everybody else.

Also, if Manu was in the same position as Kobe or Lebron and played the same minutes, his stats would rise, but his FG% would decline and TO's would rise.

[Johnny RIngo]

Wow, Ginobili's out-rebounding McGrady? Damn.

[kuato]

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

Manu can make 30 per night if he gets the ball, but that is no needed in Spurs team. Team play = championships.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

you right about that.
IF he can average 20 ppg with the spurs system,playing with 2 great scores in the league like TP and TD, He'll probably average 30 ppg in 39 mpgs in a y team. Just like Kobe.

[stretch]

you right about that.
IF he can average 20 ppg with the spurs system,playing with 2 of the best scores in the league,He'll probably average 30 ppg in 39 mpgs in a y team. Just like Kobe.

And this was where the comparisons became ridiculous. There is NO comparison between Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, and then Manu. Those guys are all in another class of player, and any non-homer fan knows that. That was my point the whole time. Don't get me wrong, Manu is a wonderful player, and I really admire the way he plays the game, and wish more people would play like him, especially with his heart, effort, and determination. The league needs more of that. I'm just saying that its ridiculous to say that he is on the same level of those players, just because he is off to a pretty hot start. You homers get your panties in a wad far too easily.

[ArgSpursFan.]

And this was where the comparisons became ridiculous. There is NO comparison between Kobe, T-Mac, Lebron, and then Manu. Those guys are all in another class of player, and any non-homer fan knows that. .

what you mean by deferent level??

lower level they are at ???

I would say:same level.

[stretch]

what you mean by deferent level??

lower level they are at ???

I would say:same level.

Homer.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Homer.

he's not a homer... he's a complete ing idiot!

[stretch]

he's not a homer... he's a complete ing idiot!

Yup.

[ArgSpursFan.]

he's not a homer... he's a complete ing idiot!

off biotch.

[Holt's Cat]

Give Manu the team Kobe has, and see if he even averages 20 a night.

If he's getting 40 touches a night like Kobe does, no problem.