incorrect. in the nfl, if you go out of bounds for any reason, you can't be the first person to touch the ball.
in ncaa, if you are forced out of bounds by the defender, you can come back in and make a play on the ball so long as you re-establish.
Re: the elbows.
What do you expect? The Mavwrecks were expecting to waltz into SA and whip the Spurs without TD playing, and then Manu and Parker slapped their sorry asses back to Highland Park.
Think back to Miami owning them in the Finals or GS last year, and they became a bunch of en led punk ass es. They are the embodiment of their elitist, en lement prick ass city.
Fun to watch the meltdown
Best AHF quote of all time? Or just this year?
really? I remember back in jr. high football I was told, as a receiver, to never go out of bounds because it takes you out of the play. Now, these were of course Jr. High coaches as well.
Last edited by mikekim; 12-06-2007 at 12:50 AM.
For whatever it's worth, I had the same thought. My explanation to myself (short of just simply acknowledging that the officiating was curious at times tonight) was that Dirk didn't screen anyone while out of bounds -- though it certainly seemed from a distance that he might have rubbed Manu -- and without a screen, there wasn't going to be a call.
content moved to manu dunk on diop thread
Last edited by mikekim; 12-06-2007 at 01:03 AM.
He definitely came into contact with Manu coming back inbounds. It wasn't much, but it was there.
During live play you can run out of bounds all you want. You just have to establish inbounds position before you touch the ball. But this was during a dead ball.
Sort of another issue...but what if you're dribbling and you lose the ball, run after it, toss the ball in bounds while flying out of bounds, then come back in and resume dribbling? That's gotta be illegal.
But I'm pretty sure you were talking about off-the-ball movement, like in the mav's inbounds play.
I couldn't tell from where I was standing.
Of course, even if it had been a textbook violation, I'm certain that tonight's crew wasn't about to call it. Frankly, I was only mildly surprised that Salvatore didn't come up with some obscure rule to give the Mavs .4 to shoot again after Dirk's miss. I won't ever blame outcomes on officials, but damn, those guys were horrendous tonight, particularly, I thought, in that 4th quarter.
I personally didn't let the officials bother me, cause, well, Salvatore was there.
Hes about 3 steps ahead of violet and the others.
That's a wise way to approach the game. I was pleased that the Spurs persevered through what I thought were some pretty bad calls and found a way to in the game -- proof positive of my general point that teams decide games, even when officials are bad.
then why all the Donaghy commotion if refs don't matter?proof positive of my general point that teams decide games, even when officials are bad
Amen brotha. That's definitely the truth. But I find it interesting I was not alone in thinking the officiating was "curious"...
Yep, exactly. Kind of glad Fab had fouled out, or he would've been there waiting to try to take a charge.
Parker might have noticed that too, or am I reading this article wrong...
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...pageType=recap
The matchup between the Texas rivals was physical at times, but both teams said it was just a result of the type of intense play that should be expected when they meet.
''That's just good, tough basketball. I'm sure that's the way they play, and so do we,'' Terry said.
With 7:50 left in the first half Parker fell to the floor after running the court alongside Terry on a fast break. Terry was called for a clear-path foul and Parker, apparently OK, hit two free throws. Terry also got a technical early in the third quarter.
''It's always that fine line between physical and all those extra hits we don't need,'' Parker said. ''You know, it was just a physical game. That's it.''
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Last edited by jmard5; 12-06-2007 at 01:36 AM.
Nicely put.
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...59788&n8pe6c=2
Just saw the clip of that last play from ESPN's video. Elson was tentative to leave his spot since he was kind of jostling for position under the basket with #5 Josh Howard.
That could have been an easy 2 had Dirk found a way to dump the ball into Howard since Finley was way out of the rotation.
Ginobili however contested Nowitzki's shot and probably has had his heart stopped for a second after that. You could see him at the sidelines watching Nowitzki's 3-ball heading toward the basket.
He could easily have said "oh f&ck..." in Spanish.
Thanks for the link.
I'd like to see somebody explain how that play is legal in the context of the written rule. Both Dirk being OOB and him jostling Manu when he came inbounds.
me and manu were on the same page
Sorry, didn't see this thread before I posted mine. You haven't seen that play before because it isn't legal...for several reasons. I listed my reasons below, and included text from the NBA's rules below that. (But reason #1 is enough all by itself.)
1. An offensive player can't leave the floor on the endline in the frontcourt for the purpose of setting a screen. No question Nitwitzki stepped out the endline. No question that he screened Ginobili off the guy making the throw-in. And he had to step out of bounds, to keep from completely running him over. It's specifically illegal. The fact that he kept running to the corner is immaterial.
2. The rule states that until the throw-in has passed the plane of the boundary "no person" shall have any part of his body over the boundary line. Nitwitzki didn't just reach over the plane, he stepped over the boundary.
3. The throw-in was made as the result of an out-of-bounds, which means the Mavs had to designate a person to throw-in, and he was only allowed to take a single step. The ball became live when it was placed in his hands, and I'm pretty sure Nitwitzki was not en led to enter that "box" where the thow-in was being made, without a time-out being called. (Different from a throw-in after a made basket, where they can run along the baseline, or even pass to another player out of bounds.)
4. You could make a case that the moment Nitwitzki passed between Ginobili and the player making the throw-in, he "occupied a position adjacent to the baseline" that his opponent wanted. Ginobili was en led to the spot - Nitwitzki wasn't.
From the NBA Rules:
Section XIV—Offensive Screen Set Out-of-Bounds
An offensive player shall not leave the playing area of the floor on the endline in the frontcourt for the purpose of setting a screen.
Section X—Screen
A screen is the legal action of a player who, without causing undue contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position.
3. Screening
When a player screens in front of or at the side of a stationary opponent, he may be as close as he desires providing he does not make contact.
RULE NO. 8—OUT-OF-BOUNDS AND THROW-IN
e. After the ball is out-of-bounds, the team shall designate a player to make the throwin. He shall make the throw-in at the spot out-of-bounds nearest where the ball crossed the boundary. The designated thrower-in shall not be changed unless the offensive team makes a subs ution or there is a regular or 20-second timeout.
Section III—The Throw-In
a. The throw-in starts when the ball is at the disposal of a player en led to the throw-in. He shall release the ball inbounds within 5 seconds from the time the throw-in starts. Until the passed ball has crossed the plane of the boundary, no player shall have any part of his person over the boundary line and teammates shall not occupy positions parallel or adjacent to the baseline if an opponent desires one of those positions. The defensive man shall have the right to be between his man and the basket.
Last edited by GSH; 12-06-2007 at 04:05 AM.
I've said it from day 1 that Elson is more effective than a lot of bigs to play for the Spurs just because he is big, can jump, and he is so ing fast.
And tonight that opinion was seconded by a coach in the post game...they said the entire reason the defense worked so well tonight was because of Elson's athleticism, and, ability to guard anyone on the floor. He may not ever master the schemes...but physically he wreaks ing havock...even if his head is entirely up his ass as he does it...just because he's so damn fast and so damn big.
I don't think people realize just how ing fast Elson is...although I will admit Pop does, because he made note of it recently in a post game as well.
I didn't see the game ending play...but I've seen every bigman in history miss a rotation on a game ending shot like that...including Tim Duncan. It happens.
Anyone that doesn't see the way Elson s stuff up for the other team, even at his most clueless, has got tunnel vision of hate.
You aren't going to get David Robinson for 2 million a year...and Elson is what he is...but anyone that doesn't like having a guy like that on the roster...I just don't get it. He can shoot, he can dunk, he can block shots, he can rebound, he can jump, he can run, he can hit his ft, and he can defend, on the perimeter even...I think he's even got a post up game. He's also got a good at ude.
IF he did all that stuff well game in and game out...he wouldn't be on our team, he'd the be the franchise player on some other team and probably the best player in the NBA. For 2 mil a year he's a complete steal. He's worth more than he is getting paid...and anytime you can say that about a bigman....you should be happy.
Edit: Forgot to add..tonight he showed he is capable of making plays in the clutch as well...in one of the few opportunities he's been given...this dude is a key to beating the Mavs make no mistake about it. And looking down the road at next season...Elson is the only big guy we have capable of being a true X-factor after Horry retires. Oberto won't ever be an X-Factor(and neither will freaking Bonner)...Splitter and Mahinmi will be too green.
Anyway...I am getting the definite vibe that Pop likes having a guy like Elson on the bench, regardless of whether or not he feels he's a big minutes candidate...his versatility makes him very valuable.
Last edited by whottt; 12-06-2007 at 04:21 AM.
Elson didn't miss a rotation. Period. Anyone who says he did either didn't see that last play, or doesn't understand the rule. I know you aren't saying that he did, but some others have.
Nitwitzki ran out the end of the court. If Elson had followed, he would have drawn a whistle. But it wasn't legal for Nitwitzki to do, either.
It was a cute play put in by A.J. I don't know if he doesn't know it is illegal, or if he just thought he could get by with it. (It would be legal, on the other end of the floor, and following a made basket. But not in the front court, following an out-of-bounds.)
I think the refs just got caught flat-footed, and it almost worked for them. And yes, the Spurs should refer it to the league office for clarification.
Actually, if I was Pop, what I would do is keep my mouth shut and wait for the playoffs. Then before each game, just quietly make sure the refs know that the play is illegal and wait for him to try it.
Last edited by ShoogarBear; 12-06-2007 at 07:08 AM.
I guess Bowen and Duncan didn't see the last play.
But no one is saying that Elson was supposed to go out of bounds with Nowitzki.
i was never able to find that video of bowen and tim chastising him... and i was too busy fist pumping to see it when it happened... any links?
I watched the play a few times on replay. I'm sure Elson missed the switch but if he had left the paint it looked like he would have left Josh Howard all alone for a layup. I can see Bowen's frustration, probably because Elson often misses his assignments and switches, but in this case I didn't think it was as bad as others.
Who knows, maybe he thought Dirk was going out of bounds so he could hide and not have to shoot the ball. Joking?
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