The 2010 Plan - Stick with it?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Kidd was the best mistake the Spurs never made. O'Neal was an idiot.

[ducks]

true they never should have went after kidd

they would have had brand had he been a fa not a restricted fa

[Emanuel20]

The only major thing I can ask R.C. to do is input some life to the bench. I want to see younger players who can dominate and can split reasonable amount of minutes with the starters during the Regular Season. We need some athletic guys that can rebound hard and take it to the hole fearlessly.

Also, Kurt and Oberto just aren’t giving us much. I think that with those two, it will be hard for us to perpetrate through a rough western conference next year.

Now, I think that the Spurs should not even think of touching the core and just build around it (I think most agree with this after reading your posts).

[Twisted_Dawg]

You got to be kidding me. The 2010 Plan was based on the assumption that the Spurs could compete until then with the current cast. This year proved that was not a viable option. Another assumption is that the FO will be able to sign a big name FA. Lets be realistic, it is unlikely that a D-Wade/Kobe (insert whatever other name you want here) is going to sign with a small market team. You also have to remember that the FO doesn’t have a good track record with wooing high priced FAs. Wouldn’t it be better to surround the big three with some young talent now and make another run before Timmy’s window closes?

You nailed it. For the Spurs to keep the same roster, while players age and decline, and wait the 2010 Plan is ridiculous. I do not think Tim will be happy with not having any new players to help him out in the next two years.

Lest we forget the 2003 Plan were we spent 3 years clearing and structuring contracts so we could go after a big name FA? Jason Jidd turned us down and so did Jermaine O'neal. Our big prize was Nesterovic whose contract haunted us for years. No big name FA is going to come here in 2010 with an ageing Duncan & Manu declining with only a couple of years left to play.

The Hornets will improve with age and expereince. The Lakers will improve with the return of Bynum. The Rockets will improve with the development of Scola and Landry.

Sadly, our options are limited. At best we might be able to sign an athletic wingman with MLE. Hopefully, we can sign Thomas to a 2 year $2.5 million per year type contract. And then see what left overs are available in the remaing FA market for a back up PG or SG. Draft a player late in the first round and see if he has the potential to play.

[The Truth #6]

After two more seasons, Duncan and Ginobili will be out of their primes. Where's the incentive then for a top free agent to come here?

The Ceramic Tile Disaster Part Two should seriously make us question putting our hopes in 'draft and stash'. We need to find players playing in America. Whenever the right deal becomes available we have to go for it, and if it's now then there's no reason to wait. If possible (not sure on contract rules) structure contracts that boost in value after 2010. Just throwing ideas around...

[Pablo Escobar]

so what the happened to the 2008 plan i call bull on all of this

[T Park]

so what the happened to the 2008 plan i call bull on all of this

What 2008 plan?

[Sway]

After two more seasons, Duncan and Ginobili will be out of their primes. Where's the incentive then for a top free agent to come here?

Didnt you know, SA has always been a FA mecca. The FO is sure we can get Lebron in 2010 and if he is not availabe then they will just have to settle for Melo. Sounds like a great plan to me...LOL.

[Galileo]

I hate to be a wet blanket to the free agent talk but after looking at salaries and re-reading quotes from earlier in the year, it's pretty obvious that the Spurs are looking at the summer of 2010 to be the time that they will totally retool. If you remember correctly, the reason Tim Duncan took less money on his extension was due to the fact that the Spurs showed him that the team could bring in another big piece in the summer of 2010 if he agreed to the lower contract.

In the summer of 2010, the Spurs will only have Tim Duncan and Tony Parker under contract. Ian Mahinmi would also be under contract if the Spurs pick up his team option, as would whoever the Spurs draft this year in the first round (assuming it's a domestic player, of course). All told, the Spurs are looking at something around $20-25 million in cap room. Even after giving Ginobili a new contract, there'd be enough money to snag a star.

To stay the course with the 2010 plan, the Spurs would have to offer free agents one-year or two-year contracts. By offering two-year contracts, that'd take the Spurs out of the running for almost every desirable free agent. Even mid-tier free agents like Kelenna Azubuike and Carlos Delfino will be able to get more than the two-year contract the Spurs would offer.

Now the question is whether you as a Spurs fan think that the risk is worth the reward. I'm not solid in whether I believe that the Spurs should stay strong with their 2010 plan or scrap it and do everything they can to improve for next season.

The front office has a tough decision. Do you stay the course and try to improve where you can while you wait for the big payoff in 2010 ... which could conceivably keep the window open a few extra years if the right piece is added? Or do you see the 2008 demise as a sign that the next two seasons would be lost if you don't move as aggressively as possible with no regard to the 2010 plan? (And if you want to go the aggressive route, what do you tell Duncan? He would have basically given up money for no reason )

The 2008 Spurs were the best in team history in an even numbered season.

They have never won a game in the conference final before in an even numbered year.

[roycrikside]

Without a real player taking over Fin's role, a SG we can rely on that's young, athletic, a decent rebounder and a good shooter, forget it, the team can't be a contender. Get Azuibuike dammit. He's a starting level talent.

[Dex]

I think you stick with the 2010 plan, even if it means only marginal improvement next season. Considering we were one of the last 4 teams standing, I don't think there is any reason for the Spurs to exaggerate their current demise. We can still be super compe ive with small moves next season.

And keeping an eye on 2010 ensures that we should still HAVE a window in 3-4 years and going into Duncan's twilight. Going balls to walls now doesn't necessarily do the same thing, as the Suns and Mavericks did an exceptional job of exemplifying.

[Spur-Addict]

We have to stick with the plan. We just have to be really smart with who we pick up. Gotta find some gems. I'm not entirely sure if RC and Pop are up to the task though...

We'll see.

"We really need to find guys on the perimeter," Popovich said. "We talk about it all the time. It's something of a special emphasis right now."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ure/index.html

[clubalien]

Now the question is whether you as a Spurs fan think that the risk is worth the reward. I'm not solid in whether I believe that the Spurs should stay strong with their 2010 plan or scrap it and do everything they can to improve for next season.

If we have a chance to get dwight howard then yes
lebron james to a lesser extentant.

oherwise i would rather go to the rebuild mode that has worked for us in the past tank the season before a good big men is in the draft

[tlongII]

National team commitments and aging stars. You guys are hosed no matter what your plan is.

[SenorSpur]

The 2010 plan is just as dumb as last time. Worked out well with JKidd and O'Neal, and that was with TD in his prime...

The front office needs to make a push this summer to take the best run it can at the le for the remainder of the Tim Duncan era (which appears to be through 2012 based on his and Pop's deals).

Plan on the cap room coming clean in 2012, not 2010, and do everything you can to win NOW.

Here, here.

For those that proclaim for the Spurs to "stay the course", stay with what? The same roster of aging vets that got their doors blown off and nearly suc bed to a hungry New Orleans team? The same roster that eventually gave way to a group of younger, quicker, more athletic Fakers team?

No, I agree AHF. The FO blew 2 potentially solid additions (Scola & Splitter), while another young player (Beno) didn't work out. Currently, there is no core other than the Big Three and they desparately need help. The Spurs need to add a couple of pieces to the mix this summer. They can ill-afford to wait and try to hit a home run in 2010.

[timvp]

We are now entering the phase of denial. A 2010 plan? Seriously? Tim Duncan will be 34 in that offseason. He will be continuing along the path of slow decline he's already started. So what, we're going to follow the "maybe an All-Star free agent will sign here" pipedream again? Are we that stupid?

There is no "plan." There is only "oh crap, we're screwed, let's throw spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks."

They need to revamp the roster NOW, but they can't. So timvp wishes upon a star and imagines that it's all under control. It's not.

ROFL. I know you like to Chicken Little it at the first sign of adversity but how can you deny what the Spurs are planning? timvp isn't saying there's a 2010 ... the Spurs have said it. Both through their mouthpieces in the media and with their roster moves (and potential roster moves) in the last year.

If you think the Spurs haven't been planning to open up cap room in the summer of 2010, please explain. Thanks.

You can start by explaining the reason why Duncan took less money on his extension.

But what is notable about the deal are the terms: Although Duncan is eligible to receive a two-year extension worth about $51 million under the NBA's collective bargaining agreement, he agreed to nearly $11 million less because it could afford the Spurs greater flexibility to pursue free agents after the 2009-10 season.

Duncan and his agent, Lon Babby, met with Spurs coach Gregg Popovich and general manager R.C. Buford at Popovich's house prior to the start of training camp. Well aware of Duncan's value to the franchise – the Spurs likely would not be in San Antonio had he not guided them to their first le in 1999 – Popovich and Buford presented him with a maximum offer during the meeting. But they also made a detailed presentation of their plans for the team's long-term future and showed Duncan the possible impact of his accepting a lesser extension.

After a few weeks of deliberation, Duncan agreed to the $40 million extension. He will make $22.2 million in the final year of his current contract, with his salary dropping to about $18.7 million in the first year of the extension.

Duncan will be 34 when the extension begins. Tony Parker is the only other player currently scheduled to be under contract following the 2009-10 season, but the Spurs also will be in position to re-sign their third star, Manu Ginobili, that summer if they want.

[ChumpDumper]

I really don't see much getting in the way of signing a full MLE deal that extends past 09-10. It's hard to see Manu's getting anything more than he is now if he doesn't have to retire due to injury. I suppose a lot of it depends on the cap projections the next couple of seasons. The economy doesn't look good but but the NBA could still be on the upswing because of Lakers/Celtics and the international factor.

I say worry later, but I'm not well-informed.

[GSH]

that said, for the nuggets to trade camby to us, it would have to be a chris wallace level gift, because that would mean they dont care at all about the playoffs.

If the Nuggets do care about the playoffs, they have to make some kind of change, wouldn't you agree? But they have some serious cap problems. If you include J.R. Smith, they have $76M committed to salaries for just 8 players. (And that's without re-signing Eduardo Najera.) They have to fill some roster spots too.

They have talked about trading Melo, but he's the 4th leading scorer in the league, and pulls down 6 boards per game. And having the 3rd and 4th leading scorers in the league on the same team is a powerful thing. I don't think they're getting rid of him.

K-Mart has 3 years plus a player option on his $15M per year contract, so I think it's going to be tough getting rid of him. I suppose they could take an Allen Houston exception to ditch Nene, because of his health problems. That would clean up about $9.6M next year.

I guess the point is that they are going to be shedding somebody, and it won't be Iverson. There's a short list of alternatives, and I don't see why Camby would be more sacred to them than those other guys. And he would be such an incredible addition to the Spurs that it would be worth trying to be creative. His contract would be up in 2010 too.

[1Parker1]

<-----Ahem.


2010, the West is going to be even more of a killer. Young teams like the Blazers, Hornets, Jazz, Lakers are going to be even more experienced which can only help them. IMO, you saw inexperience ultimately hurt this Hornets team. Imagine if by 2010 they actually get a bench. Can you imagine how an experienced Hornets team who's played in a couple of playoff series by then would have reacted to being up 2-0?

[timvp]

They can decide or not to sign Manu in 2010 and it's not a given that they re-sign him in 2010. Don't forget that Manu will be almost 34 years old for the 2011 playoffs and given his playing-style/durability, he can be far from his current level.

This is a depressing yet valid point. Ginobili, unless he adds a killer midrange game, isn't the type of player who will age gracefully. Two years from now it's difficult to project what type of player he'll be. Hopefully he'll be good enough to re-sign for another 2-4 years ... but it's tough to say.

Ginobili's last days will be more like Finley than like Brent Barry. Barry could basically play for as long as he wants because his jumper doesn't rely on athleticism. Ginobili and Finley both rely on athleticism.

[AFBlue]

This is a depressing yet valid point. Ginobili, unless he adds a killer midrange game, isn't the type of player who will age gracefully. Two years from now it's difficult to project what type of player he'll be. Hopefully he'll be good enough to re-sign for another 2-4 years ... but it's tough to say.

Ginobili's last days will be more like Finley than like Brent Barry. Barry could basically play for as long as he wants because his jumper doesn't rely on athleticism. Ginobili and Finley both rely on athleticism.

Sadly, I think the Spurs got a glimpse into the future while Ginobili was hurt this last series. He was robbed of the athleticism and elusiveness that is critical to him being an effective scorer.

Still, I think Manu has drastically improved his jumpshooting ability in the past few years, and if he can continue to develop in that area, he should still be an effective player for the Spurs down the road.

Also, I disagree that he is more Fin than Barry, because he has the passing and ball-handling ability to be effective without scoring the ball.

Bottom Line: By then he probably won't be the third option, but he could still be a very effective bench player for the Spurs, should they choose to re-sign him.

[1Parker1]

Ginobili's last days will be more like Finley than like Brent Barry.

Oh god, you're right.

[timvp]

Also, I disagree that he is more Fin than Barry, because he has the passing and ball-handling ability to be effective without scoring the ball.

Somewhat true but then again, he needs his athleticism to get into the lane and be a playmaker. This year in the playoffs, he'd drive the lane and then turn it over because his injury didn't allow him enough lift/elusiveness to make the difficult pass he's accustomed to making.

We'll see but I don't see Manu (or Parker for that matter) being able to contribute at a high level once they lose their athleticism. Manu's game is built on his change of direction, change of pace and quick reflexes. Parker's game is built on speed. The good news is Duncan could probably play as long as he wants (as long as he avoids injury).

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I say stick with the 2010 plan.

We could have won the championship this year, but unfortunately some things we had no control over - health, a lethal schedule, and a critical mess up by a ref - just didn't go our way. Next year, hopefully with a little bit more luck we can avoid all that.

No need for huge adjustments.

We do need to make small adjustments, though. We need a slasher and an athletic big. Hopefully Mahimni can cover the the athletic big part. If he does we'd be much better off trying to guard guys like Lamar Odom and David West. That'd be a big plus right there, obviously.

That leaves us with the slasher void. RC's got to work some of his magic there. Who is going to be our S-jax for next year? Another scorer on the court would mean that Ginobili would be able to play less during the regular season and thus be rested come playoff time. As we saw in this year's playoffs, we need him rested.

Some of our players need to improve for next year.

Tony's got to add a thee point shot to his game ala Deron Williams. A three or so a game would be nice.

I would also like to see Ginobili have more of a mid-range game. I'd like to see him curl off screens more next year like we see with Rip Hamilton. He wouldn't have to rely on his on-off 3 point shot so much if that happens.

[AFBlue]

Somewhat true but then again, he needs his athleticism to get into the lane and be a playmaker. This year in the playoffs, he'd drive the lane and then turn it over because his injury didn't allow him enough lift/elusiveness to make the difficult pass he's accustomed to making.

We'll see but I don't see Manu (or Parker for that matter) being able to contribute at a high level once they lose their athleticism. Manu's game is built on his change of direction, change of pace and quick reflexes. Parker's game is built on speed. The good news is Duncan could probably play as long as he wants (as long as he avoids injury).

Oh I agree that Ginobili won't be high-level contributor in his mid-30's, but I do think they could still be effective. What Manu will have to do is learn to live with the limitations and adjust his game.

That means more drive and kick and less drive to finish. That means crossover to seperate and knockdown the J, not crossover to weave through the lane.

I guess what I'm saying is that it would be hard for me to see the Spurs turn such a popular franchise guy away, especially if he can still be an effective contributor.

But like you said...I guess we'll see.