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  1. #726
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I do have a problem when someone who claims to be a scientist tells me the earth is Billions of years old. And that we evolved from molecules and gasses that were floating around in space. Like anyone on this planet has the right to say what was going on 10,000 years ago, and yet they want to say what took place Billions of years ago? just because they tested a bone they found, or a fossil? it's all speculation. And therefore is no different then people who believe in a GOD.
    This is ridiculously stupid to act like all knowledge is speculation, on par with your 9/11 conspiracy theories. Is the doppler effect and relativity a bunch of speculation in that head of yours too?

    What I can believe in is the complicated designs I see in the plant and animal life. Not to mention the Human eye.




    Even the most advanced artificial imaging system in the world remains extremely simple and primitive compared to the eye.

    When we think of the effort and knowledge that has been put into developing these artificial imaging systems, we can get a grasp on the superior creation that has gone into designing the eye.
    Natural selection is so much simpler and explanation for the creation of the eye than is inventing the most complex thing imaginable, having it come from absolutely nothing, and having it design everything all at once.

  2. #727
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    mouse despises all human knowledge and science, but uses a computer, the internet, probably drives a car and uses a telephone.

    Quite laughably hypocritical.

    If we were to go around saying crazy things, we would be thrown in the loony bin, but if you say the earth is 6,000 years old, you get labeled 'crazy' but you don't go in the loony bin because you are 'religious'


    The evidence that the Jesus myth is just another incarnation of the very old and popular Sun God myth has been proven already.

    Of course, the Churches will still have butts in the seats on Sun-Day.
    Last edited by MiamiHeat; 01-01-2009 at 10:36 PM.

  3. #728
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    This has to be the most ridiculous thing you've ever posted on this forum.
    Don't kill the messenger I was just quoting another book I read.

    God created man with a free will and gave him a choice. God placed one limitation on mans freedom and told him not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. For God knew that in the day Adam ate it he would die spiritually and be separated from God eternally.

    But Adam also began to die physically. Adams sin caused his body to slowly break down and eventually result in the death of his physical body.
    Romans 5:12

    "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

    You guys keep quoting the text books when you make your points but I can't use any books?

    Is it just me or do you notice all the posters that defend Darwin seem to be very bitter and uptight. Why is that?




    http://gprime.net/video.php/proofofcreationism

  4. #729
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Don't kill the messenger I was just quoting another book I read.






    You guys keep quoting the text books when you make your points but I can't use any books?

    Is it just me or do you notice all the posters that defend Darwin seem to be very bitter and uptight. Why is that?




    http://gprime.net/video.php/proofofcreationism
    You don't literally believe this, do you? This has to be a troll act.

  5. #730
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    Evolution Vs. Creation
    June 21, 2006 by
    Eric Lund
    The Co-existence of the Theories of Evolution and Creation
    One of the most controversial topics of today is the question of our existence and how it came to be. Until recently, many thought that a supreme being had created the universe. Within the last few hundred years, however, overwhelming scientific evidence that demonstrates our existence is that of adapted species through evolutionary processes has challenged the suggestion of creationism. Evolutionists claim that their ideas contradict the teachings of the popular creation stories like that of the book of Genesis in the Holy Bible. Because of the scientific evidence to support evolution, and the lack thereof for the idea of creationism, it is more commonly believed in modern times that the theory of evolution has proven the Holy Bible creation story wrong. Despite the controversy between the two views, extensive research shows that it is evident that the two ideas do not contradict, but rather coincide with one another, and that we cannot have one without the other. Science and the theory of evolution can explain how God created the earth, and the Bible explains why He created the earth.


  6. #731
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    You don't literally believe this, do you? This has to be a troll act.

    Now maybe you know how you all look when you quote, copy and paste your findings. The topic was asking is there a God. A simple yes or no would do but many of your uptight Atheists friends started pasting all kinds of text books and now that I paste a page or two you get upset?


  7. #732
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    Dawkinswatch

    Exposing Evolution As A Mess and Atheism As Hot-Air!
    10 Reasons Evolution Is A Lie- Richard Dawkins Extending a Lie: Charles Darwin Started The Theory Of Evolution


    Richard Dawkins has been at it yet again, he has been given a huge platform yet again by the controllers of channel four to make a three part series on the Genius Of Charles Darwin. He is extending that he lie that the theory of evolution was begun by Charles Darwin.

    Why would they want to lie about the origins of the theory? We have noted that the theory of Evolution has always existed in the mystery religions. As proof take Erasmus Darwin the grandfather of Charles who outlined the theory of Evolution in his tome Zoonomia. But there was something a little bit dark in his background, something that gave the plot away, he was a founder of a secret society called the Lunar society.

    In case you are still in doubt of the origins of the the theory of evolution in the mysteries, take Alfred Russel Wallace when the reinvention of the idea was first conceived, it was called the christened the Wallace Darwin Theory. It was decided to drop Wallace from the theory’s name when he became interested in Society of Psychichal Research and in 1875 published a book called Miracles and Modern Spiritism. He also became a extreme socialists and anyone who knows any thing about the Fabian Socialists knows their involvement with Society Of Psychical Research.

    Alfred Russel Wallace




    Today the Fabian Socialist and Round table groups dominate Oxford University through the Rhodes Foundation and other Anglo Saxon supremacist ins utes and research groups, that is the

  8. #733
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    who knew mouse belonged in the nut house?

    Again, why is mouse using a computer, the internet, telephones, etc if mouse doesn't believe in science?


    Hypocritical behavior, nothing new

  9. #734
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Now maybe you know how you all look when you quote, copy and paste your findings. The topic was asking is there a God. A simple yes or no would do but many of your uptight Atheists friends started pasting all kinds of text books and now that I paste a page or two you get upset?

    Life from non-life had to happen exactly once, and then natural selection takes over from there. Natural selection is always painted as a random process over long periods of time by creationists, but that's either a complete misunderstanding or an outright lie. It's true that random mutations are the catalyst for change, but if that mutation conveys a tangible benefit, those with the mutation usually live longer, breed faster and more often, and have a population that will eventually dwarf those who do not have the beneficial mutation. This is because population growth is exponential, i.e., roughly Population = e^{rt} (2.7128.... to the rt th power), and is extremely sensitive to the value of r, which is the rate at which a population breeds.

    If you want a reason why population growth is exponential, look at this example discussing ant populations (in you can view the emigration term a as the death rate, and always set it greater than or equal to zero since it's not possible for a negative number of ants to die).

    quick explanation of population modeling (see the section called Class work on a project)
    http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/DA05...104E/0/r01.pdf

    solution showing pop growth as exponential
    http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/AA67...3/0/r01sol.pdf

    Check the graph I posted below of two functions e^2.0t and e^1.9t. r=2.0 is the breeding rate of something with a beneficial mutation, and r=1.9 the rate of that species without the mutation [so we can say the mutation provides about a 5% = ((2.0-1.9)/2.0) * (100%/1) benefit ion breeding rate]. I know the numbers 2.0 and 1.9 for the growth rates may seem a bit artificial, but every set of two exponential functions e^rt, e^st with 0<r<s behave exactly in the same way very quickly.

    Anyways, in the image below, the black lines are the graphs of e^2.0t and e^1.9t, with e^2.0t (the graph of the population with the beneficial mutation) as the graph on the left, and e^1.9t on the right. The blue lines represent the difference between the two populations at a time of say 32.2 units of time (could be years, or roughly generations... whichever time scale one uses, the rate will have to be adjusted accordingly, since of course more will be born in a year at the same birth rate than in a month). Notice it's pretty substantially favoring the population with the beneficial mutation. However, if you go just about 0.2 time units longer (to 32.4 time units), you can see the difference in population between those with the mutation and without is much larger than before (it is shown by the green lines), and that e^2.0t continues to become way larger than e^1.9t. In fact, the ratio e^2.0t/e^1.9t (=e^0.1t) will grow very quickly to infinity as t grows, which is the same as saying the population with the beneficial mutation will reasonably quickly dwarf the population without the mutation.



    As an example, a primitive wing might help an animal that lives in trees to slow his fall when he jumps down to grab prey on the ground, whereas one without that proto wing might be injured or killed by the fall. The animal with the proto-wing therefore has a huge advantage in that he can watch his prey from above where he has a much broader view of his hunting grounds and he can jump down to quickly pursue any prey he finds. His compe or without the mutation must either hunt from ground level (and thus not see as many opportunities) or climb down the tree before he can begin his pursuit of what he does see (thus giving extra time for the prey to escape). It's pretty easy to see the animal with the proto-wing is going to be far more successful a hunter, and thus will spend less time, less energy, and will have a lower opportunity cost for his hunt (leaving him more time to go out and get laid and pass his genes on). He's also much more likely to live longer, since he can be a much more successful hunter.

    The proto-wing doesn't allow him to fly or to even glide, but it clearly provides benefit that will almost certainly become selected for his species (by the argument above about population growth being exponential). In this way we see that an animal can quickly derive great benefit from a wing-like appendage even if it doesn't provide the ability to fly, and that having a wing doesn't have to be an all or nothing state. Clearly, a wing is not an example of irreducible complexity.

    Same with the eye. No one thinks an eye was just mutated all at once. You don't need cones to tell there's a light source (only rods). An extremely primitive eye may not let one see colors or long distances, but it can still be useful for telling if something runs across your path or if one is about to walk off the side of a cliff the same way that someone with cataracts is still better off than Stevie Wonder. The eye as we know it today is clearly not an example of irreducible complexity.

  10. #735
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    you are actually going to take mouse seriously?

    I thought it was obvious mouse was trolling. well, cookie for you baseline for putting in your time

    though I do think mouse should create mouse's OWN THREAD for this and not pollute the God thread

    I suspect mouse's new thread about the Earth being 6,000 years old and all this other nonsense will be sparsely populated

  11. #736
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    you are actually going to take mouse seriously?

    I thought it was obvious mouse was trolling. well, cookie for you baseline for putting in your time
    Maybe mouse won't take me seriously, but hopefully at least one person will see how simple and elegant the explanation of diversity of our planet through natural selection is. It really angers me when the religious right and Bush/Palin/etc lovers want to take science out of science classes. Intelligent design is not science because it's not testable, there's no physical evidence, and it does nothing to advance our knowledge of the universe we live in. Students should be learning skepticism; not blind faith in science classes. The physical evidence is all over the place for natural selection, so it's plain ignorant to drag evolution down to the level of the blind faith of creationism. It kind of reminds me of Bush's strategy of trying to bring his opponents down to his level, and obviously people fell for it the same way they do for intelligent design.

    I cannot believe the disregard some people hold for biology, physics, and the like. We live in such an amazing time right now. For example, today mouse benefits from having the equivalent of 100 slaves working like dogs for 12 hours a day for what, a couple hundreds bucks a month on his power bill? (source: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-...il/embed14.htm)

    That's not because of God, since we've had him for at least 6000 years. That's a direct consequence of the incredible growth in human knowledge that owes itself entirely to the scientific method. If we tell our kids the scientific method is garbage and replace it with supers ion, we're not going to make those kind of breakthroughs that are going to be needed to sustain our way of life into the future once the oil is gone.

  12. #737
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    though I do think mouse should create mouse's OWN THREAD for this and not pollute the God thread
    I read most of your posts and they have nothing to do with topic.

    Wow. Apparently I must LIVE on SpursTalk and not have a real life.

    If I am missing from the thread , it MUST be because I have nothing more to say, right?

    can't be that I have real life to go back to. it's 2:21 AM and i came to check what happened here. ridiculous, i'll be back tomorrow

  13. #738
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    that is on-topic.

  14. #739
    Believe. Heat Miser's Avatar
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    I can see how you stay on topic.



    LOL, troll. You almost had me for a second there
    You are busted :P No trolling here today buddy! I'm on to you
    Mm. these seasoned fries are delicious.




    Looks like you are busted. Look what I wrote in a previous post right above yours. vvvvvvvv





    1. You can't even read my previous post

    2. You are acting like a general a-hole

    3. You are avoiding my question

    Bodes poorly upon you. What a horrible first impression you give off. How old are you?

  15. #740
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    All of that is on-topic.
    and that last quote you posted is part of a larger post that is also on topic.


    This thread is about God and his existence. I have said over and over, the Christian Jesus is a sun god mth.


    Now compare that to someone talking about the age of the Earth or evolution.

    Can you even compare anything? Your track record is flimsy as I see it because you can't tell what's on topic and what isn't.

  16. #741
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    baseline bum you don't get it. I don't care who is right or wrong I just don't like scientist to say in a school text book that man came from a monkey and the earth is 250 Billion years old if they are not sure or they can't prove it.

    What's wrong with wanting the truth?

  17. #742
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    How can you even remotely say you want the truth when you believe a book that says a man can walk on water and all other sorts of stuff yet provide NO EVIDENCE?

    You aren't searching for any truth.

  18. #743
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    Life from non-life had to happen exactly once, and then natural selection takes over from there. Natural selection is always painted as a random process over long periods of time by creationists, but that's either a complete misunderstanding or an outright lie. It's true that random mutations are the catalyst for change, but if that mutation conveys a tangible benefit, those with the mutation usually live longer, breed faster and more often, and have a population that will eventually dwarf those who do not have the beneficial mutation. This is because population growth is exponential, i.e., roughly Population = e^{rt} (2.7128.... to the rt th power), and is extremely sensitive to the value of r, which is the rate at which a population breeds.

    If you want a reason why population growth is exponential, look at this example discussing ant populations (in you can view the emigration term a as the death rate, and always set it greater than or equal to zero since it's not possible for a negative number of ants to die).

    quick explanation of population modeling (see the section called Class work on a project)
    http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/DA05...104E/0/r01.pdf

    solution showing pop growth as exponential
    http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/AA67...3/0/r01sol.pdf

    Check the graph I posted below of two functions e^2.0t and e^1.9t. r=2.0 is the breeding rate of something with a beneficial mutation, and r=1.9 the rate of that species without the mutation [so we can say the mutation provides about a 5% = ((2.0-1.9)/2.0) * (100%/1) benefit ion breeding rate]. I know the numbers 2.0 and 1.9 for the growth rates may seem a bit artificial, but every set of two exponential functions e^rt, e^st with 0<r<s behave exactly in the same way very quickly.

    Anyways, in the image below, the black lines are the graphs of e^2.0t and e^1.9t, with e^2.0t (the graph of the population with the beneficial mutation) as the graph on the left, and e^1.9t on the right. The blue lines represent the difference between the two populations at a time of say 32.2 units of time (could be years, or roughly generations... whichever time scale one uses, the rate will have to be adjusted accordingly, since of course more will be born in a year at the same birth rate than in a month). Notice it's pretty substantially favoring the population with the beneficial mutation. However, if you go just about 0.2 time units longer (to 32.4 time units), you can see the difference in population between those with the mutation and without is much larger than before (it is shown by the green lines), and that e^2.0t continues to become way larger than e^1.9t. In fact, the ratio e^2.0t/e^1.9t (=e^0.1t) will grow very quickly to infinity as t grows, which is the same as saying the population with the beneficial mutation will reasonably quickly dwarf the population without the mutation.



    As an example, a primitive wing might help an animal that lives in trees to slow his fall when he jumps down to grab prey on the ground, whereas one without that proto wing might be injured or killed by the fall. The animal with the proto-wing therefore has a huge advantage in that he can watch his prey from above where he has a much broader view of his hunting grounds and he can jump down to quickly pursue any prey he finds. His compe or without the mutation must either hunt from ground level (and thus not see as many opportunities) or climb down the tree before he can begin his pursuit of what he does see (thus giving extra time for the prey to escape). It's pretty easy to see the animal with the proto-wing is going to be far more successful a hunter, and thus will spend less time, less energy, and will have a lower opportunity cost for his hunt (leaving him more time to go out and get laid and pass his genes on). He's also much more likely to live longer, since he can be a much more successful hunter.

    The proto-wing doesn't allow him to fly or to even glide, but it clearly provides benefit that will almost certainly become selected for his species (by the argument above about population growth being exponential). In this way we see that an animal can quickly derive great benefit from a wing-like appendage even if it doesn't provide the ability to fly, and that having a wing doesn't have to be an all or nothing state. Clearly, a wing is not an example of irreducible complexity.

    Same with the eye. No one thinks an eye was just mutated all at once. You don't need cones to tell there's a light source (only rods). An extremely primitive eye may not let one see colors or long distances, but it can still be useful for telling if something runs across your path or if one is about to walk off the side of a cliff the same way that someone with cataracts is still better off than Stevie Wonder. The eye as we know it today is clearly not an example of irreducible complexity.
    That was some good info It will take me awhile to read it but I am sure if I find a flaw or two I will have to call you out on it.

  19. #744
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    You shouldn't even waste your time. You believe in a book with no facts, no evidence, nothing. It's one of many religions, but then you turn around and criticize SCIENCE?

    laugh out loud.

  20. #745
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    What's wrong with believing we came from monkeys?

  21. #746
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    You don't like monkeys or somethin'?

  22. #747
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    baseline bum you don't get it. I don't care who is right or wrong I just don't like scientist to say in a school text book that man came from a monkey and the earth is 250 Billion years old if they are not sure or they can't prove it.

    What's wrong with wanting the truth?
    No, you don't get it. There is extremely compelling evidence that man came from monkey, that the universe is 14.5 billion years old, and so on. Fossils, carbon-dating, the expansion of the universe clearly shown by doppler shifts in spectrums of light emitted by celestial bodies, the theory of relativity that shows these bodies had/have a finite speed, etc. are all authoritative clues that point us in the direction you are in such violent opposition to (why, because they don't have the whole story?). Your line of reasoning is like saying you're not going out on a date unless the woman tells you she'll suck your beforehand or no one should go out and play ball unless they can already shoot like Larry Bird.

  23. #748
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    How can you even remotely say you want the truth when you believe a book that says a man can walk on water and all other sorts of stuff yet provide NO EVIDENCE?
    You aren't searching for any truth.
    Where did I post I believe a man can walk on water?
    It might surprise you but I question all theories and religions and cults etc...

    But if i can't get you Jesus bashers to agree with me on how science should be facts and not theory, then how can I begin to prove there is a God?

    You guys won't even admit I am right on any post so your to bias to have a debate with.


    Great Barrier Reef



    Here is a picture of a coral reef growing under water. You know the largest reef in the world is in Australia, the Great Barrier Reef. ..... You know during World War II, some of the reef was damaged and destroyed by ships and anchors and bombs and stuff like that, so the environmentalist wackos went out there to see how fast it grows back. They watched it grow for 20 years. It was a government project! After watching the reef grow for 20 years, they decided the Great Barrier Reef is less than 4,200 years old. That is pretty old, but I have a question. If the earth is millions of years old, why don’t we have a bigger reef someplace? Why is the oldest reef less than 4,200 years old?

  24. #749
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    That was some good info It will take me awhile to read it but I am sure if I find a flaw or two I will have to call you out on it.
    I'll give you a flaw right now.... it underestimates the speed at which the population with the beneficial mutation begins to dwarf the other, because it is simplified to not take into account the mutated species having a longer expected lifetime (and therefore, lower death rate), since it would make the math nastier, and I really wasn't trying to go with the argument of blinding by science. Then, the run-on sentence is another flaw.

  25. #750
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    But if i can't get you Jesus bashers to agree with me on how science should be facts and not theory, then how can I begin to prove there is a God?
    Are you confusing science with religion? Do you even know HOW science works?

    Do you even know HOW scientists win Nobel prizes and become legends of their time?

    Albert Einstein proved Newton wrong.

    If any man could prove scientists wrong on these major issues, he would become internationally famous, applauded, win a Nobel prize, and be thought of as a genius of his time.

    In any man would prove religion wrong, he would be hanged/beheaded/burned alive/tortured as a heretic.

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