Devin Vassell has to go asap.

[scott]

i know how that works, thanks.

Sure doesn't seem like it, since you didn't know how it would pick up his improvements.

[J_Paco]

I gotcha Jpaco. I think part of the reason why I do complain is twofold. One, my fav team isn’t winning And I want them to win obviously. But they haven’t been for 7 seasons now and by that time I start to dissect why we aren’t winning. Bc by all accounts we should have been in the running of making the playoffs with Wemby this season. Before he got hurt. And we weren’t. So I’m looking at the team and just trying to figure out why. lack of talent? Well we have talent in comparison to other playoff teams like the Clippers or Rockets. We are too young? Well OKC is just as young and in first place by miles. Coaching? Well we have a hof coach. So why are we so bad?

And the answer I came up with isn’t those three things but rather we are just too misfit to be a winning team. Sochan is talented but offensively he doesn’t fit. Vassell is talented but offensively/defensively he doesn’t fit. I don’t mind KJ tbh. But I’m just looking to discard the players I feel don’t fit (coach too imo) and replace them with those that do fit. I understand a lot of people don’t agree with me in my stance, but that’s just how my brain is processing this year and going into next. I’m seen as kinda an idiot bc I just want a complete overhaul and I feel like that scares people and their thought process.

Yes, I get that.

We are - from my recollection - both Bills' fans and were likely around for the 4 SB losses & 17 year playoff 'drought.'

I know all about disappointment from players, coaches and teams (I'm also a Texas Rangers fan although I'm from Maryland, LOL), as I age and get older I try to keep this into perspective.

We are passive participants in sports as fans, so try to enjoy the journey good or bad cause it's all in fun.

I get getting down on players, but the over-the-top hyperbolic nature of internet sports fandom is pretty grating overall. These NBA guys are literally the .01% of their sport, but people act like all of them need to be perfect.

I'll let it go and let y'all have your peace and say what you want. No point in getting too worked up over any of these things and I just hope he figures things out here or elsewhere.

Peace.

[LeBowen]

for the sake of brevity: last game vs the pistons -> game on the line, devin carries the team when everyone can't hit the ocean, with stephon going for a big fat 0, then we're 20 down and we make a run..

Alright, you're going to go to full re mode again.
How the is he carrying the team with the game on the line if we were at 2-17 for a ing 12 minute quarter and he shot 1-4 without ever getting to the line?
The game isn't on the line, it's ing done at that point. We weren't coming back from -26 at the half.

He was the first option in that game and he did jack to keep the deficit under 20 at least.

Castle had the worst half of the season, but guess what?
He composed himself and scored 17 in the second half compared to Devin's 13 if you want to talk about making runs.

We shouldn't ever be comparing a rookie to a 5th year player, but do you know what's the biggest difference between Castle and Devin?
Castle has made more improvements over these past 5 months than Devin did over 5 years.

Castle is making a lot of mistakes, but he's mostly doing the right thing, just can't execute it properly because he's inexperienced and doesn't have the skillset yet.
On the other hand, Devin s his pants whenever things aren't going right and just reverts to things he knows he shouldn't do like dribbling the ball for 10 seconds and taking an awful shot.
Devin is a front runner. Does well when the entire team is playing well, but disappears when things go badly. He's supposed to be the tough shot maker of this roster, getting buckets when everyone is struggling should be his job, not the other way around.

[Raven]

Sure doesn't seem like it, since you didn't know how it would pick up his improvements.

it's a weight. the next weight is always dependant on the previous ones.

[Raven]

Alright, you're going to go to full re mode again.
How the is he carrying the team with the game on the line if we were at 2-17 for a ing 12 minute quarter and he shot 1-4 without ever getting to the line?
The game isn't on the line, it's ing done at that point. We weren't coming back from -26 at the half.

He was the first option in that game and he did jack to keep the deficit under 20 at least.

Castle had the worst half of the season, but guess what?
He composed himself and scored 17 in the second half compared to Devin's 13 if you want to talk about making runs.

We shouldn't ever be comparing a rookie to a 5th year player, but do you know what's the biggest difference between Castle and Devin?
Castle has made more improvements over these past 5 months than Devin did over 5 years.

Castle is making a lot of mistakes, but he's mostly doing the right thing, just can't execute it properly because he's inexperienced and doesn't have the skillset yet.
On the other hand, Devin s his pants whenever things aren't going right and just reverts to things he knows he shouldn't do like dribbling the ball for 10 seconds and taking an awful shot.
Devin is a front runner. Does well when the entire team is playing well, but disappears when things go badly. He's supposed to be the tough shot maker of this roster, getting buckets when everyone is struggling should be his job, not the other way around.

you'd be surprised, how much that happens.

[scott]

it's a weight. the next weight is always dependant on the previous ones.

You have zero clue what you are talking about

[Raven]

You have zero clue what you are talking about

it's literally my degree, but ok

[scott]

it's literally my degree, but ok

Your ins ution would be ashamed

The weight is dependent on nothing more than how many days it was from the date of the measurement, it's completely independent of the previous weights. Call your professors and apologize.

[ambchang]

i'd say that's a reasonably fair assessment. Especially if you consider our coach and his genius three pg lineups and sochan as center lineups.. i get that it is an excuse, but it is the truth.

I’m just getting confused. Why does it affect Vassell the most and not the rest of the roster? At any point in time there are four other players with him, where those four other players also play with other spurs players, playing the same scheme, yet Vassell is the one who is the only one who sticks out. If this is an extraordinarily unusual situation, the onus is actually on you to prove it, not the other way around.

[ambchang]

it's a weight. the next weight is always dependant on the previous ones.

What?

[Slippy]

DV can't win on here. If he played e in march the same usual suspects would of gone out to town on him.

[baseline bum]

DV can't win on here. If he played e in march the same usual suspects would of gone out to town on him.

So all of us who don't think Evin is a good fit (nor good player) should all start bandwagoning him now you're saying? Because he puts up numbers as the Main Character on a tanking team? Sorry man, he's a Poor Man's Jerry Stackhouse getting a ton of touches while the talent on the roster is in street clothes.

[spurraider21]

vecenie talking about the hypothetical Vassell + FRP for Trey Murphy stuff that's been brought up here (assuming Spurs moved into top 4). at 1:34:50 of the vid below. they think its a damn good question and pretty close. ultimately say they'd do so from the spurs perspective. from pelicans perspective, would do so in a situation where they are entering a complete rebuild/teardown and if their natural pick is also top 2

[scott]

vecenie talking about the hypothetical Vassell + FRP for Trey Murphy stuff that's been brought up here (assuming Spurs moved into top 4). at 1:34:50 of the vid below. they think its a damn good question and pretty close. ultimately say they'd do so from the spurs perspective. from pelicans perspective, would do so in a situation where they are entering a complete rebuild/teardown and if their natural pick is also top 2

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

[spurraider21]

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

i think this is key. he's realistically the big chip we have if we wanted to make one move to really level up, both because i think around the league he is seen as a positive player, but also because his contract is such that it is easy to pair him with one of Keldon/Barnes to match basically whatever salary we want. is it a trade for Murphy between the lotto and the draft? is it a trade for Durant later in the offseason? or is it for some other trade for a big name 1-2 years from now? whatever it is, you want to get it right. his contract will only be more favorable from here on out. his 29 mil cap number this year is the highest its ever going to be.

personally, i wouldnt do vassell + 3/4 for Murphy. i'd agree that there would need to be some additional compensation coming back. vassell + 3 tells me your are getting a legit all star. murphy is on an all star trajectory, but he's not quite there.

[scott]

i think this is key. he's realistically the big chip we have if we wanted to make one move to really level up, both because i think around the league he is seen as a positive player, but also because his contract is such that it is easy to pair him with one of Keldon/Barnes to match basically whatever salary we want. is it a trade for Murphy between the lotto and the draft? is it a trade for Durant later in the offseason? or is it for some other trade for a big name 1-2 years from now? whatever it is, you want to get it right. his contract will only be more favorable from here on out. his 29 mil cap number this year is the highest its ever going to be.

personally, i wouldnt do vassell + 3/4 for Murphy. i'd agree that there would need to be some additional compensation coming back. vassell + 3 tells me your are getting a legit all star. murphy is on an all star trajectory, but he's not quite there.

I agree with everything you said, but I take a different approach. I don't need, or necessarily even want to trade DV for an all-star or someone on an all-star level contract. That's the appeal for TMIII for me. He'd be the most "high end" 4th option in the league, but unlike someone like Lauri (who would be a way overpriced 4th option or would relegate one of our guys, likely Castle, down to the 4th option). TMIII's contract is just right for the role I want him to play (Devin's is actually just right for it as well, it's just that he's proven that he can't play that role).

Yes, DV + Keldon/Barnes can match up with a max player... but I don't want another max player. All three of those guys have perfect contracts for the roles they fill on this team at this point in time (with Wemby and Castle on rookie deals), they just need to be upgraded to better players (actually, Barnes is fine)

[spurraider21]

I agree with everything you said, but I take a different approach. I don't need, or necessarily even want to trade DV for an all-star or someone on an all-star level contract. That's the appeal for TMIII for me. He'd be the most "high end" 4th option in the league, but unlike someone like Lauri (who would be a way overpriced 4th option or would relegate one of our guys, likely Castle, down to the 4th option). TMIII's contract is just right for the role I want him to play (Devin's is actually just right for it as well, it's just that he's proven that he can't play that role).

Yes, DV + Keldon/Barnes can match up with a max player... but I don't want another max player. All three of those guys have perfect contracts for the roles they fill on this team at this point in time (with Wemby and Castle on rookie deals), they just need to be upgraded to better players (actually, Barnes is fine)

right im not saying we SHOULD package devin + salary for all star. ive said im opposed to trading for Durant for those reasons. im just saying they dont have to make a move right now. for all they know, a better situation may manifest in 2 years.

but yes, moving devin while upgrading and not taking on more money (at least not significantly more) is worth considering, i just think #3 is rich for that. if we dont move up and wind up around pick 8-10, then thats the move i'd make probably

[Raven]

One thing he should work on, are his rotations with sochan, needs to be more vocal as it's a very obvious weakness for the team

[pad300]

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

With that in mind,

Santi Aldama (S&T) (he might just want out after his kerfuffle with Bane) for Devin Vassell

How much draft capital? Or maybe a 3 team trade?

[scott]

With that in mind,

Santi Aldama (S&T) (he might just want out after his kerfuffle with Bane) for Devin Vassell

How much draft capital? Or maybe a 3 team trade?

That's a great question. All the advanced metrics point to Aldama becoming a better player this season (and by a fairly wide margin, tbh) but Devin is0 much more "visible" and may be viewed as higher potential, even though they are the same age. Santi is a much more valuable archetype than Devin, but a lot of fans might view Devin as "better" because he's more of a scorer. If we've seen anything in the NBA this season, it's that GMs aren't really that much smarter than the average fan . Just think of CasualSpursFan - they'd be up in arms if we traded Vassell and "only" got Santi back, even though it would be quite the coup for us.

I think you might be able to get away with this trade straight up, and both teams will feel like they won (though I'd argue the Spurs are clear winners). With that said, I don't know that Devin fits MEM very well unless they are looking to completely rebuild (which I doubt and they really shouldn't). They have enough guards and guard/wings on their roster already, to the point where Jake Laravia became a casualty of their roster crunch, so it probably needs to be a 3-team deal.

I'd like this move a lot.

[scott]

Double post

[baseline bum]

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

Let's say the Spurs jump to #2 and push NOP to #5. Do you do #2 and Vassell for TMIII and #5?

[LeBowen]

Let's say the Spurs jump to #2 and push NOP to #5. Do you do #2 and Vassell for TMIII and #5?

I'd also include Jeremy if that was the trade, tbh.

[baseline bum]

I'd also include Jeremy if that was the trade, tbh.

I definitely wouldn't as there is an enormous dropoff between #2 and #5 in this draft.

[LeBowen]

I definitely wouldn't as there is an enormous dropoff between #2 and #5 in this draft.

It's the recency bias from last night's game, I'm done with Spurs wasting time on someone who doesn't understand the basic concepts of modern basketball.

More realistically, Spurs won't move up and let's say we get the #8 and #15 picks.
I'd offer NOLA those two picks, Devin and Jeremy for Murphy and Herb.
But I don't think they trade Murphy and go back into a full rebuild. Even if they get rid of Zion, Murphy is the player they'll keep unless someone overpays a lot.

The player I'd be looking out for is MPJ, he'll probably get moved if Denver fails in the playoffs.