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  1. #801
    Guest Personality Hoops Czar's Avatar
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    The Sixers also run the Spurs system. Sure, they have less talent than Pop's team. But with the other players on their team being decent offensive threats, it's not like Turner has to iso all day long. He's just a chucker in the Gay/DeRozan mold. Sure, there's a chance he becomes an efficient scorer in SA, but honestly chuckers tend to be chuckers wherever they go.Just cause Turner is more talented than Green doesn't mean he's a better fit for the team, as we've been saying. His role is hard to fill. That's why it took so long to do so.
    In a perfect world, if you combined Belinelli's offensive talents with Green's defensive talents, you'd have a complete player. Unfortunately, both of these players are hurting the team on one end of the court. You might think Green's offensive struggles would be an easier fix but his lack of handles and his inability to break free of defenders makes it a challenge. You can talk about floor spacing but there isn't a single Spur on the roster that commands a double team so most teams can play the Spurs straight up and force them into taking crowded jump shots. Teams with an inside presence are willing to take their chances with Manu and Parker driving the lane, forcing them into tough shots at the rim. The key is ball movement and it's been shoddy at best this season.

    Not really sure how you can view Turner as a chucker. He averages 6.1 pullups/game and 6.2 drives. He's 10th in the league in points in the paint. When I think of chuckers, I think of the Danny Green's, Marco Belinelli's and Patty Mill's of the world. Green is about as one dimensional on offense as a player gets whereas Turner is a whole lot more. He's not only leading the team in points, but he's averaging 6.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.1 steals a night and getting to the line 5.6 times a game. Turner's problem in the past was that he never really received the type of opportunities under Doug Collins that he is getting now. Players like Jrue Holiday and Andre Iguodala dominated the ball for much of Turner’s first three seasons so its hard to make an exact assessment on Turner,s overall efficiency. This year however, he is shown the ability to makes solid decisions with the ball, has an above average mid-range game and has some serious toughness around the rim. Did I mention he's only 25? How long did it take TP to be an aggressive defender and a potent offensive juggernaut? Tiago Splitter was a defensive nobody when he entered the league and now numbers wise, he's the best. Players, who are young and athletic have the ability to improve in other areas of their game under the tutelage of the right coaching staff. I believe Turner can be one of those guys. With that said, RC Buford would be laughed off the phone if he suggested a Green/Turner swap.

    Also from a previous post, I watched both those OKC games and Westbrook was 13-22 in the first game, not exactly a stealth defense performance there. In the second game, Westbrook had a lot of open looks and just missed them during his 2-16 shooting night. I don't care what numbers you put in front of me, there is no way Green is as consistent on defense this year as he was last year.

  2. #802
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    To cover the basics of your post, Hoop.

    Green doesn't hurt the offense by being dimensional. The role of the middle positions in the Spurs offense is to space the floor. It isn't to handle the ball or to drive. That's why Beli and RJ skills in those areas translated into better team or individual offensive production while they are/were with the starters. It's not that Green's role is confined by his limitations. It's that his role was already defined, and he plays it well despite his limitations. It's a legitimate point that the Spurs might want to change their system to expect more from the two. But that's a different debate.

    We disagree on what a chucker is. That's fine. I'm saying it's based on the amount of possessions ended, not the type of shot. Turner is not efficient any way you slice it. And his strengths do not fit their system. You think Beli's bad? Turner would be even worse since he can't shoot. He'd also need to be paid like a starter, but he's historically sucked at the two. He doesn't have a place in the rotation, either.

    Green hasn't been as good on defense this season, and that's why it's amazing that he has still impacted the team's defense so much. He still has another gear or two to rachet his game like most Spurs, but hes still a better defender and role-player than Turner can dream of being. Maybe Philly would laugh off a trade request of Green for Turner, but so would the Spurs. Their window slams shut after that trade.
    Last edited by Chinook; 01-20-2014 at 01:30 AM.

  3. #803
    Coming Off The Bench TheGoldStandard's Avatar
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    In a perfect world, if you combined Belinelli's offensive talents with Green's defensive talents, you'd have a complete player. Unfortunately, both of these players are hurting the team on one end of the court. You might think Green's offensive struggles would be an easier fix but his lack of handles and his inability to break free of defenders makes it a challenge. You can talk about floor spacing but there isn't a single Spur on the roster that commands a double team so most teams can play the Spurs straight up and force them into taking crowded jump shots. Teams with an inside presence are willing to take their chances with Manu and Parker driving the lane, forcing them into tough shots at the rim. The key is ball movement and it's been shoddy at best this season.

    Not really sure how you can view Turner as a chucker. He averages 6.1 pullups/game and 6.2 drives. He's 10th in the league in points in the paint. When I think of chuckers, I think of the Danny Green's, Marco Belinelli's and Patty Mill's of the world. Green is about as one dimensional on offense as a player gets whereas Turner is a whole lot more. He's not only leading the team in points, but he's averaging 6.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.1 steals a night and getting to the line 5.6 times a game. Turner's problem in the past was that he never really received the type of opportunities under Doug Collins that he is getting now. Players like Jrue Holiday and Andre Iguodala dominated the ball for much of Turner’s first three seasons so its hard to make an exact assessment on Turner,s overall efficiency. This year however, he is shown the ability to makes solid decisions with the ball, has an above average mid-range game and has some serious toughness around the rim. Did I mention he's only 25? How long did it take TP to be an aggressive defender and a potent offensive juggernaut? Tiago Splitter was a defensive nobody when he entered the league and now numbers wise, he's the best. Players, who are young and athletic have the ability to improve in other areas of their game under the tutelage of the right coaching staff. I believe Turner can be one of those guys. With that said, RC Buford would be laughed off the phone if he suggested a Green/Turner swap.

    Also from a previous post, I watched both those OKC games and Westbrook was 13-22 in the first game, not exactly a stealth defense performance there. In the second game, Westbrook had a lot of open looks and just missed them during his 2-16 shooting night. I don't care what numbers you put in front of me, there is no way Green is as consistent on defense this year as he was last year.
    Green gets the magic rock treatment, just because players don't always go off doesn't mean he is the reason. When I think of improvement for the playoffs I see the same Green we have had over the past season which is decent at defense but offensively we can't rely on his scoring to help our team win against dangerous teams.

  4. #804
    Veteran Baam's Avatar
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    The more I think about it the more I want to trade with the Wizards... One of Vesely or Seraphin + Glen Rice Jr for Bonner + Cojo + second rounder or something (I'd even put Beli in the deal but that's just me)...

    They decided to shorten the rotation so these guys are not playing at all anymore... Vesely was playing the best basketball of his career lately... Glen Rice Jr could be the two way wing project that could put us over the top, not as highly regarded as someone like Snell or Caldwell Pope but imo he has the tools...



    That's the D league I know...




    Vesely as a small ball center has the potential to be so scary, the guy is so quick for his size...
    Last edited by Baam; 01-19-2014 at 01:22 PM.

  5. #805
    GetalifewoodU Strategic's Avatar
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    Caron Butler ing about his playing time...

    8M expiring is pretty nice... He's kind of a head who can get under the opponent skin like SJax, why not... Would not get excited about the move but it'd be better than nothing...
    Spurs probably wouldn't help him with more PT.

  6. #806
    Since 1992 Brutalis's Avatar
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    We need to get John Henson

  7. #807
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    The more I think about it the more I want to trade with the Wizards... One of Vesely or Seraphin + Glen Rice Jr for Bonner + Cojo + second rounder or something (I'd even put Beli in the deal but that's just me)...

    They decided to shorten the rotation so these guys are not playing at all anymore... Vesely was playing the best basketball of his career lately... Glen Rice Jr could be the two way wing project that could put us over the top, not as highly regarded as someone like Snell or Caldwell Pope but imo he has the tools...



    That's the D league I know...




    Vesely as a small ball center has the potential to be so scary, the guy is so quick for his size...
    I do like Vessely quite a bit. But he will be a free agent after this season. If we trade for him around the deadline, he probably wouldn't get much playing time. By the post season, he'd have court side seats. The way I see it is we'd be moving bench players (who know our system) for bench players (who don't) we'd be better off keeping them.

  8. #808
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    Evan Turner..

    Turner's ideal role is on a team where he's a 6th man and is permitted to handle the ball..he has been an awful off-ball player throughout his career, and he still can't shoot, how exactly would he fit on a team where he would rarely handle the ball, tbh?..

    Of course he's a much better individual player than Danny Green, but Turner wouldn't be fit on any team that doesn't utilize him as the lead bench player(Manu's role for the Spurs)..

    If the Spurs are going to make a trade, they need to use their ty assets to acquire a 3rd role playing perimeter defender, not another ball-handler, tbh..

  9. #809
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    tbh, outside of MCW, the only other Phila player I like is Tony Wroten... not that the sixers will part ways with him, but he would be a great project under Pop... that said, we're full of guards....

  10. #810
    Learn2Excel TheCerebral1's Avatar
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    tbh, outside of MCW, the only other Phila player I like is Tony Wroten... not that the sixers will part ways with him, but he would be a great project under Pop... that said, we're full of guards....
    That's so true. A perfect upgrade over the crap that is Cory Joseph.

  11. #811
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    Trade for Brandon Bass. In terms of upgrading the roster for THIS year, the spurs could use a player that can reliably score off the bench in bunches. For all his knocks, it's what they had in Neal and don't really have this year on a consistent basis. Bass is a good offensive player that can put 8-10 points up reliably off the bench given the minutes.
    Last edited by CGD; 01-20-2014 at 08:52 AM.

  12. #812
    Veteran szkorhetz's Avatar
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    Trade for Brandon Bass. In terms of upgrading the roster for THIS year, the spurs could use a player that can reliably score off the bench in bunches. For all his knocks, it's what they had in Neal and don't really have this year on a consistent basis. Bass is a good offensive player that can put 8-10 points up reliably off the bench given the minutes.
    He is a midget and he is really limited defensively. Pass.

  13. #813
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    He is a midget and he is really limited defensively. Pass.
    In fairness, so was Neal for his position, on both accounts.

  14. #814
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    In fairness, so was Neal for his position, on both accounts.
    You'll notice that Neal is no longer here?

  15. #815
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Orlando is probably shopping Afflalo and Jameer.

    Afflalo has two years left after this one. He was signed to be a part of a DH12 led team in December 2011, but is likely not in their plans now.

    Nelson has one year after this one, but his deal is only guaranteed $2M out of a total of $8M if cut by 15 July. You could keep him OR cut him OR flip him again during the draft to a team looking to cut salary next year.

  16. #816
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    Afflalo has two years left after this one. He was signed to be a part of a DH12 led team in December 2011, but is likely not in their plans now.
    huh? Afflalo was part of the trade that shipped DH to LA in the summer 2012. he was one of the parts that the Magic got back for DH12. he signed an extension with the Nuggets in 2011.

  17. #817
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    btw. didn't read anything about Afflalo on the market.
    and if he was, it would be for a very high pick.
    he is currently delivering borderline all star numbers and he does it on a pretty cheap contract. currently one of the best deals in the whole NBA. (looking from a teams perspective).
    he just turned 28, should be able to produce at that level for some more years.
    if the Magic deal him, it's because his trade value might be on an all time high. outsinde the Spurs reach. (unless they offer Leonard). nelson yes. but why would we want Nelson with Mills on the roster for 1/8 of the money?

  18. #818
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    huh? Afflalo was part of the trade that shipped DH to LA in the summer 2012. he was one of the parts that the Magic got back for DH12. he signed an extension with the Nuggets in 2011.
    Ah, my bad. Just saw the extension date.

  19. #819
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    btw. didn't read anything about Afflalo on the market.
    and if he was, it would be for a very high pick.
    he is currently delivering borderline all star numbers and he does it on a pretty cheap contract. currently one of the best deals in the whole NBA. (looking from a teams perspective).
    he just turned 28, should be able to produce at that level for some more years.
    if the Magic deal him, it's because his trade value might be on an all time high. outsinde the Spurs reach. (unless they offer Leonard). nelson yes. but why would we want Nelson with Mills on the roster for 1/8 of the money?
    This may be the most "win now" mode the Spurs will ever be in. They might want him because they have the contracts to get him and he's MILES better than any backup we now have on the roster. The Spurs vaunted fiscal frugality may be out the window since it's looking like it's this year and (maybe!) next year, and then BOOM goes the roster. He's also not a long term drag on the cap. He can be cut for $2M of his $8M salary for next year by 15 July.

  20. #820
    Veteran ThaBigFundamental21's Avatar
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    You'll notice that Neal is no longer here?
    Exactly my counter. We let him go. The goal here is to get better. People here don't seem to understand. The Spurs IMO need to make a significant trade in terms of upgrading the roster for one last run. Getting that done and not subtracting talent we need is obviously going to prove very tough. The front office definitely has their work cut out for them. Holt is going to have to commit because this team is going to have to commit to some future salary to have any chance in doing so IMO. I really hope they figure something out, I think this team needs a little extra punch in the form of size and scoring, but at the same time that player has to be passable on D. This won't be easy....

  21. #821
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    #31DaysTillNBATradeDeadline

    Feb. 20 -- 2014 NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

  22. #822
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    I'm okay with the frontcourt rotation. Spurs need another wing defender to throw at Durant/Bron/George and they should be set for another deep run tbh.

  23. #823
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    I think we need to improve the roster to beat the top teams in the west, but I don't know who is available that will really make a difference. Too often the only available players are either talented, but on a bad contract, or just not that great or at least not enough to actually improve our roster in a significant way. Maybe there's a buy out of a veteran towards the end of the season. Sometimes that works. But I don't think any of the current players being shopped will do the trick for the Spurs.

  24. #824
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    The New Orleans Pelicans (15-24) are reportedly looking to find trade suitors for Eric Gordon and Tyreke Evans prior to the NBA trade deadline.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...evans-in-trade

  25. #825
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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