There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[DPG21920]

Then who are you going all in for...and how are you getting them on the team?

Like your not going all in for Jokic, Embiid, Shai, Luka, Chet. Those are franchise players who will have to want to leave first. If they never want to leave those teams hang up the phone as soon as you say their name.

Your not even going to be able to get guys like Bridges, OG, Siakam, Haliburton, Brunson. Those guys have re upped either last year, this year, or will next year with their teams. Again, you have 0 chance to get these players unless they specifically ask out.

And all the players I just mentioned, they all have 2 things in common as of right now. 1, all of their teams are better than the spurs teams, and 2, all of their teams have or will have their bird rights so they can offer more years and thus more money than the spurs can.

So who is this mythical nba player you want to pair with Wemby who is a star, who plays on a better team than the spurs, and who will be willing to leave that team and make less money over less years with san antonio? Or if not that, who is the star who is going to just ride out his entire contract, become an unrestricted free agent, and then sign with San Antonio?

Passing on Trae...passing on Lauri...that's how you end up getting sodomized by the Bulls when you have to trade for Lavine in two years cause Victor is telling you to get somebody in here now and literally the only "star" you can trade for is Zach Lavine.

That’s not how this works. Spurs don’t need to go all in now. They aren’t facing a “who if not Lauri” situation

[DPG21920]

I agree, but the problem with you and others is delusions of grandeur.

K

[Gandalf]

2025 is a big free agency year where we can sign someone without losing all our future picks—which we’ll need to keep winning once players get too expensive under the new system, etc.

Lauri should be relatively cheap, because he’s not re-signing with the Jazz, and the Jazz need him gone so they have a much better shot at a franchise player in the 2025 draft. If Ainge is trying to screw us with ridiculous demands in those cir stances, he can screw himself. We’ll just sign Lauri (or another good player) in 2025, keep all our picks, and the Jazz can remain mired in mediocrity for an extra four to five years. Bravo Ainge, well done.

[Mr. Body]

That’s not how this works. Spurs don’t need to go all in now. They aren’t facing a “who if not Lauri” situation

I don't understand the thought processes.

"Oh YEAH? If we don't go all in on Lauri Markkanen now, who DO we go all in on???"

Not sure how that makes sense. Like if you've decided not to break the bank on one player then you're supposed to break the bank immediately on some other player. That you have to decide right now. Or that you're supposed to break the bank on some player at all.

[LeBowen]

2025 is a big free agency year

Butler, FVV, Ben Simmons, Ingram, Middleton, Randle, John Collins, Brook Lopez, Aaron Gordon, Myles Turner, D'Lo is your big free agency year.

Naz Reid being the only UFA worth going for if Minnesota doesn't offer him a new deal.

[Ice009]

Do not bail Ainge out. If he accepts a fair offer, maybe, but if not, he can keep Lauri. The Spurs can just look at options in 2025.

[Mr. Body]

2025 is a big free agency year where we can sign someone without losing all our future picks—which we’ll need to keep winning once players get too expensive under the new system, etc.

Lauri should be relatively cheap, because he’s not re-signing with the Jazz, and the Jazz need him gone so they have a much better shot at a franchise player in the 2025 draft. If Ainge is trying to screw us with ridiculous demands in those cir stances, he can screw himself. We’ll just sign Lauri (or another good player) in 2025, keep all our picks, and the Jazz can remain mired in mediocrity for an extra four to five years. Bravo Ainge, well done.

Yeah, really think Ainge is boxing himself into a corner. He might have really thought there was a big market for Lauri, like OKC was going to pony up immediately and he could win the pick battle. Instead he may have three teams involved. Maybe.

I guess we'll see if he backs off wanting Kuminga or Keegan Murray. IMO those are no-goes for those teams. He may have to realize what he's getting. May have to extend Markkanen and hope for more when people might have moved on and it gets more expensive in term of contracts to trade for him. Meanwhile he's trying to tank, so doesn't want to do this.

[rankingtear]

Mark isn't eligible for his renegotiation until his third anniversary. Because 2021 had a late start, there has been talk that the NBA adjusted the anniversary of his signing to reflect 08/06, or the start of the 2021-2022 league year. That idea is not sound on its face. Anniversaries are adjusted for contracts signed between October 2 and the beginning of the league year to reflect 10/01 in order to allow rookie extensions to be eligible for additional extensions, renegotiations, etc. We learned this during the Murray situation a few years ago. But the CBA didn't have any carve-out for 2021 in it, which I imagine would've been helpful to get in writing. It's possible the league put out a memo, but from what I can see, the belief that the adjustment happened seems to be due to a tweet chain by some Utah media members

Like why they would believe this, I don't know, and as far as I can tell everyone else is referencing this conversation. What I don't know is if this got confirmed later on, because there are RGMers who act as if that did happen.

As far as why Smith has the 07/06 date, maybe you're correct about it simply referring to when he can sign an extension at all. I find it troubling that he doesn't have a separate date for renegotiation. Whether that's because he assumes it's the same date, doesn't know the answer or just doesn't care to track renegotiation deadlines due to how rare they matter, I don't know.

There was it said adjusted to the stage of the offseason so if Lauri signed at mid point of 21 offseason his anniversary is mid point of 24 offseason.

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently the Jazz actually wanted to trade for Mikal Bridges and improve the team in the offseason

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs apparently in a better position than the Kings

[Chinook]

There was it said adjusted to the stage of the offseason so if Lauri signed at mid point of 21 offseason his anniversary is mid point of 24 offseason.

I'm not even sure what this means? Why is 08/06 the same point of this summer as 08/28 was of the summer of 2021? Again, I haven't seen anything from the league that said they did this (and they would have to say it, because the CBA doesn't have at automatic adjustment built in), and the RGM cap guy said he hadn't seen it either. As you know, there are things I don't know, and you've helped me out before. Do you have anything to back this up?

[Knoxxx]

you've literally just convinced me that we need to tank this year. If the only personal available in the next 3 years would be an overpay, then we just need to tank for Ace Bailey and sign Lauri as a free agent next summer.



Not all FRPs are equal. If we are giving 4 FRPs for Lauri, they can't be the expected lottery picks. Especially if you don't have confidence in Wright's drafting record; Wright did good drafting Wemby, but that was because it was a no-brainer. 2025 draft will have some no-brainers if we are drafting high enough.

I definitely want Lauri, but I would still limit myself to our own natural picks in non-swap years ('27, '29, '31) as well as CHA and CHI.

I noticed we have the same thought. Basically what I’d like to do keep our best FRP per year, through 31, and avoid having no FRPs in a given year with the exception of 1 year at most. I think the math works and that still leaves UTA with some good picks, We may also be a Wemby injury away from any of our 27-31 natural picks being gold, heaven forbid but we do lose that insurance.

[Knoxxx]

The issue here is when the Jazz stop trying to play one offer against the other.

[RC_Drunkford]

[LeBowen]

Spurs apparently in a better position than the Kings

I'll say it again, I don't understand why would Kings want Markkanen?
Their biggest issue is that they need to somehow build a good defense around Sabonis, like Nuggets did around Jokic.
He's a non-factor defensively and having Markkanen next to him would make things even worse.

If Kings aren't willing to give up Keegan Murray, what's even their offer? The best they can do is '27, '29, '31 FRPs, they traded away their '25.

[mo7888]

Boiled down: I think this package if held onto either to draft or trade later has a 70% chance at yielding a better player than Lauri in addition to the ramifications of that (ie not paying that player 40m+ immediately) set the team up much better

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

I agree, but who is that player? We aren't under the gun to get 'that' guy right now, but we better have a target in our sights, even if it's at the deadline or next summer.

That package is just to much and I really love Lauri here. One group is determined to burn our capital in an overpay and the other just thinks he's trash... we need a little balance in our perspective here..

[DPG21920]

He’s not trash, but you have to factor in everything but especially his role and how he plays if he were in SA.

[mo7888]

He’s not trash, but you have to factor in everything but especially his role and how he plays if he were in SA.

Yup...and I think his fit is very good...not quite great as that package would require, but very good...

[R. DeMurre]

But of course, what was anyone thinking? Ainge has done it a million times, you'd think people would have learned by now, but reading these forums it's clear they haven't. Ainge needs to trade Lauri before the season starts because he's finally accepted anything other than a hard tank won't get him the franchise player he needs. He failed to accept reality in Wemby's draft, and that was a huge up, he won't repeat the same in '25. He's teasing teams right and left, trying to create a bidding war which only he can win. Spurs should put up a good offer, draw the line and be willing to walk away if the price goes up beyond reason. The world doesn't start or end with Markkanen.

I don't think Ainge misplanned the Wemby draft. Most sportswriters & analysts had Utah as one of the worst teams that year and frontrunners for Wemby. The problem was Markkanen played much better than expected and the team had more cohesion than anticipated, and finished with 37 wins, despite blatant tanking moves for good chunks of the season. The Jazz were expected to have a win total in the range of the Pistons, Rockets, and Spurs (17, 22, 22), and probably would've had 45 if they'd actually been trying. That's one of the reasons why I think Markkanen is a good target.

[poopbox]

That’s not how this works. Spurs don’t need to go all in now. They aren’t facing a “who if not Lauri” situation

It's literally exactly how it works. All of the value of these future picks they have are that the teams they got them from might be bad. But if the teams are not bad, then the picks are not high, and then they don't have very much value.

If the Jazz want the Hawks 25 pick, they want it because they feel like the Hawks might be bad this upcoming season and they can get a high draft pick out of it. But what happens if the Hawks are just the 6th seed? That pick won't even be a lottery pick. You think the Jazz are going to want that pick then? Highly unlikely.

You keep mentioning "all in". There is no such thing as "all in". "All in" insinuates that there is some optimal future opportunity that will present itself to the Spurs and it will be clear that in that moment they need to push their chips in. There is no guarantee that will happen. The only real guarantee is that all these first round picks over time will reveal themselves to be useful or not.

Remember back when the Pelicans traded Anthony Davis and got this huge collection of young players and picks? 5 years later Lonzo hasn't played in 2 years, Hart is on the Knicks, the one guy they did keep, Ingram, never helped them win even a playoff series and they now don't want to pay him on another contract, and all of those Lakers picks turned into what exactly? A bunch of nobodies and one top 10 pick, Dyson Daniels who they just traded.

The Lakers got a player who helped them win a le and go to a conference finals, and the pelicans got a bunch of players who never helped them win even 1 playoff series in 5 years, a player they currently don't want to pay, and one top 10 draft pick they they used to trade for Dejounte Murray. I am very positive they envisioned it going a different way than that.

If you look at the history of player vs lots of young players and picks traded for player...the team trading for the player usually comes out ahead in the short and long term.

[OldMan88]

Don’t forget impact of state income tax. Utah is about 5%. California is north of 15%. Texas is 0%.

[scott]

Love people getting fixated on this hypothetical 6 FRP + Keldon offer. That is nothing more than what one poster, who I can’t even remember, said they would pay. The Spurs will obviously have a line they’re willing to go up to. Knowing their cheap asses, it’s probably embarrassingly, unrealistically low.

Ainge is very obviously leaking all this info to work in his favor. I don’t doubt 20 teams have inquired and that the Spurs, Kings and Warriors have all made substantial offers. Lauri is really good, and most teams would want him. The Doug McDermott comparisons are just deal fatigue talking. Ainge knows that Lauri is really good and knows that by leaking this information he might be able to squeeze a few more drops out of this lemon. Remember guys, Danny Ainge is actually good at this. Not like the Spurs who don’t know how to leverage the media to their advantage.

My offer, which means absolutely nothing because Brian Wright is not calling for my opinion, remains:

Zach Collins
SA26 (with swaps attached)
SA28 (with swaps attached)
SA30 (with swaps attached)
MIN31

If Utah wants Keldon instead of Collins, that’s fine - but SA26 becomes a swap (Best of SA/ATL/UTA/CLE/MIN to Utah, second best to SA).

I use those picks because I think that is what best fits Utah’s existing war chest. If they said they wanted SA27 instead of SA26, that’s also fine. But it’s 2 picks in addition to SA30 and MIN31.

If Sochan is what makes or breaks the deal, they can have him. I’m not letting Clank Sochan stop me from this deal. The fact that Sochan would be the deal breaker for some people is the most hilarious part of this to me. It would be like if we didn’t accept a massive haul for Dejounte because Atlanta refused to throw in Kevin Knox or some .

[Ariel]

I don't think Ainge misplanned the Wemby draft. Most sportswriters & analysts had Utah as one of the worst teams that year and frontrunners for Wemby. The problem was Markkanen played much better than expected and the team had more cohesion than anticipated, and finished with 37 wins, despite blatant tanking moves for good chunks of the season. The Jazz were expected to have a win total in the range of the Pistons, Rockets, and Spurs (17, 22, 22), and probably would've had 45 if they'd actually been trying. That's one of the reasons why I think Markkanen is a good target.

Markkanen is a good target for sure, nobody disputes that. The only question is how far should Spurs go to pursue him, some say as far as it takes, I'm not in that "Lauri at all costs" camp. Where Ainge miscalculated wasn't in keeping Lauri but rather delaying the trade of the vets around him, like Conley, Beasley, Vanderbilt, also should have moved Jordan Clarkson, and played the games all other bottom teams engaged in that year. The premium by waiting wasn't worth anywhere near the chances lost in a top heavy draft that had them falling to 9 and picking Taylor Hendricks rather than Wemby or Brandon Miller, for instance. There were no guarantees but that was a year to take the chance, like the next one is apparently. I think Ainge learned his lesson.

[Chinook]

I really hate the idea from fans thinking the Spurs should not care about the draft because "What good would a guy who's not going to be good for four years do for a Wemby who's ready to compete now?" It's like, dude, Wemby will also be ready to compete in four years, and it would be really nice to have guys on cheaper deals who are ready to compete alongside him. Imagine how dead in the water Philly would be if they didn't have Maxey? Embiid would've been trade to another team. You always keep drafting and you leave space in a rotation for guys to rise through the ranks.

I definitely have my issues with how the Spurs have approached the draft. They need to be much more aggressive in moving on from guys if they're going to use their war chest to continuously bring talent on the roster. They can't piss away high draft picks, and they can't get caught in a position where they're forced to trade picks because they held onto too many in one season. However, the opportunity for a team to continuous be able to pursue top prospects for six of the next seven years regardless of how well they do is good. What is requires is that they show show a clarity of purpose in how they're going to start that tap to flow. That indeed entails good moves for players who are ready to help now without hampering their ability to continuously bring in talent. That's the situation OKC is currently facing, and they're in the process of configuring their war chest to reflect that.

The Spurs are not quite in OKC's position, but if their goal is to get there, splurging at this point runs counter to that. Regardless, they should definitely be looking to see what they can get for CHA25, CHI25, seconds, cap space a maybe one of their decent rotation players. I believe that package could get more than folks think, even in this market. They should be able to get a legit starting forward, even if they have to wait into the season for teams to realize they want to tank.

[rankingtear]

I'm not even sure what this means? Why is 08/06 the same point of this summer as 08/28 was of the summer of 2021? Again, I haven't seen anything from the league that said they did this (and they would have to say it, because the CBA doesn't have at automatic adjustment built in), and the RGM cap guy said he hadn't seen it either. As you know, there are things I don't know, and you've helped me out before. Do you have anything to back this up?

21-22 offseason is 74 days, Lauri signed on the 21st day of that offseason (8/28) equal to 28.% mark of the offseason. 24-25 offseason is 110 days, the 28% mark of that offseason is the 32nd day which is 8/06. 21-22 offseason started in 8/6 , 24-25 stared in 7/6. Dates don't matter at what point in the offseason Lauri signed the contract. If he signed at the start of 21 offseason his anniversary is on the start of the 24 offseason which are different dates.