Official Hurricane Katrina Thread

[ObiwanGinobili]

You talk about walking out...alot of those people that couldn't get out are elderly, how the are they supposed to just walk out of the city?

this is where i get really mad at the mayor etc for waitign so long before getting buses going along with other measures.

[MannyIsGod]

You know, I have a lot to post now that I'm at the end of this thread but I'm going to start with this...

Obiwan and El Pimpo, you 2 are extremely full of in this thread. I'm sure that you're going to risk walking on highways - some of which don't have shoulders for 10s of miles because they are bridges over swamps - in 100 degree heat indexs for about 60 miles rather than take shelter some where in NO.

Especially you Obiwan! You're ing pregnant!

You all need to stop being so ing self righteous for a moment and realize the people you are bad mouthing are in serious danger. Who really gives a flying if they were stupid?

Give me a ing break.

[samikeyp]

Sorry but you are wrong. A lot of people could absolutely not get out. They did not have cars. Most other modes of transportation were overbooked or shutdown. They've interviewed 1000's of tourists whose flights were canceled two days ago, there were no rental cars or buses available.

Everyone can sit here and say all day that "they could have got out" but that's crap. Sure, some of them were dumb and chose to stay but thousands and thousands had absolutely no choice.

Well no...not being in charge of the evacuation plan of New Orleans I am not 100%, absolutely, positively sure what the exact plan was but I would think that the city would do all it possibly could to help out as many people as possible. Not once in 37 pages did I say "oh well they could have got out if they wanted too" because I am aware of the fact that there are homeless people, sick people and people vital to the safety and security of the city who would be unable to leave. My point was, is and will be that I believe (an opinion not fact) that the city would have done all they can to help get people out. Doesn't mean they could get everyone out, but they would have tried.

[Spurminator]

When will the insanity of sticking a reporter in the middle of a storm finally end?

Very few things baffle me more.

[CosmicCowboy]

You know, I have a lot to post now that I'm at the end of this thread but I'm going to start with this...

Obiwan and El Pimpo, you 2 are extremely full of in this thread. I'm sure that you're going to risk walking on highways - some of which don't have shoulders for 10s of miles because they are bridges over swamps - in 100 degree heat indexs for about 60 miles rather than take shelter some where in NO.

Especially you Obiwan! You're ing pregnant!

You all need to stop being so ing self righteous for a moment and realize the people you are bad mouthing are in serious danger. Who really gives a flying if they were stupid?

Give me a ing break.

Yeah...I would have ridden Manny's bicycle outa there...

[j-6]

re: walking vs riding it out

I had a conversation about this on Saturday.

It all depends on how high your level of self-preservation is. Mine's high enough that I would have figured out some way of leaving town immediately if not sooner, like paying someone to ride in the bed of their pickup, riding a bicycle, etc. My GF wouldn't leave all of her precious belongings she's spent a life gathering behind when she knows there is a chance that they'd be spared.

I brought this up this morning, and hindsight's 20-20.

[Kori Ellis]

My point was, is and will be that I believe (an opinion not fact) that the city would have done all they can to help get people out.

Sure, if they started evacuating last Wednesday or before, they probably could have gotten everyone out would wanted out. But they didn't start that long ago. In the time frame they had, the city did not and could not get the 1000's of people out who wanted out.

[N.Y. Johnny]

When will the insanity of sticking a reporter in the middle of a storm finally end?

Very few things baffle me more.

\


yeah i just saw some poor guy being batted around in the wind against cars and getting hit with debris.

[Kori Ellis]

re: walking vs riding it out

I had a conversation about this on Saturday.

It all depends on how high your level of self-preservation is. Mine's high enough that I would have figured out some way of leaving town immediately if not sooner, like paying someone to ride in the bed of their pickup, riding a bicycle, etc. My GF wouldn't leave all of her precious belongings she's spent a life gathering behind when she knows there is a chance that they'd be spared.

I brought this up this morning, and hindsight's 20-20.

Sure - me too. But I'm healthy and have cash to pay people to help me get out. That's not the situation for a lot of people.

[j-6]

To bring up a point Manny made about page six or so, I wonder how many people feel like real asses right now when they loaded their cars up with books and TV sets when they could have used the extra space on a less fortunate passenger.

[2pac]

All reporters there volunteered to be there.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Now that Katrina has moved inland, the threat of storm surge along Louisiana's southeastern coast has lessened. The only area that may still see storm surge is the south shore of Lake Ponchartrain. The storm surge along the Mississippi Gulf Coast is 20 to 25 feet. There are reports of the storm surge carrying boats across roads. -- WDSU chief meteorologist Dan Milham

Looks like all eyes in NO are on Ponchartrain.

[Manu20]

Steve Gregory

AUG 29 12:10PM

DAMAGE REPORTS

Storm surge and 30 foot waves breeched the NO levees - much of city under 2-3 ft of water - structuaal damage
reported some parts of the eastern suburbs of NO.

STORM SURGE REPORT:
"Mayfield said at midmorning the worst flooding from storm surge was on the Mississippi coast, east of the eye,
with the highest storm surge recorded so far at 22 feet in Bay St. Louis.

Steve

[samikeyp]

Sure, if they started evacuating last Wednesday or before, they probably could have gotten everyone out would wanted out. But they didn't start that long ago. In the time frame they had, the city did not and could not get the 1000's of people out who wanted out.

You're right...in the time alotted...a full evacuation was impossible, my point was they would have tried to get as many out as possible.

[N.Y. Johnny]

To bring up a point Manny made about page six or so, I wonder how many people feel like real asses right now when they loaded their cars up with books and TV sets when they could have used the extra space on a less fortunate passenger.

i guess there might be some that don't feel like asses at all, probably some that are thinking maybe, "i got out of there, better them than me..i saved my 42 inch plasma tv!"

[MannyIsGod]

From what I can see, there really was no jog to the east for this storm. New Orleans has been hit pretty damn hard, but it was spared total destruction because of a few things:

The storm lost a lot of its power on the western side (the side NO got) as it came close to shore. There could be lots of reasons for this - and you can bet your ass the next 5 years of meteorologists getting doctorates will be trying to figure it out and writting their papers on this - but whatever the case it really was an answered prayer.

When the storm loses convection, the winds aren't usually as much of a factor in that area. There is a load of dynamics invloved and I really don't know much about why this is the case, but it is what it is. So NO missed getting winds as bad as they could have.

This in turn lowered the amount of storm surge. Storm surge is just water pushed up and forward by the winds of a storm. It is usually higher on the east north and east sides of a storm because when they come ashore in this country, the water is usually to the east or to the south. So those are the sides where the wind is blowing onshore.

But New Orleans is different because the main source of water for surge is on the NORTH on the city. So the worst of the surge would be to the west of the eye where the wind is blowing over the water and onto land.

But because of lowered winds in that portion of the storm, they didn't have the strength to push the water in a larger surge.

You of course also get less direct wind damage.

I don't know what the peak winds from NO were during this storm, but they probably weren't more than 120 at the most. That is a far cry from the 175 they were staring down earlier in the day.

[samikeyp]

Someone on CNN last night was saying that if it would have hit just right, their could have been water on the streets of NO for 6 months. Don't know if that was an exaggeration but its damn scary.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's gonna suck if New Orleans gets drowned because a bunch of damn water rats like this one weakened the Ponchatrain levee and it can't handle the surge/waves...

[N.Y. Johnny]

It's gonna suck if New Orleans gets drowned because a bunch of damn water rats like this one weakened the Ponchatrain levee and it can't handle the surge/waves...

i have those bas s out here in the ponds

[Kori Ellis]

What's the status of the Ponchatrain levees at this point?

[SpursWoman]

Everyone can sit here and say all day that "they could have got out" but that's crap. Sure, some of them were dumb and chose to stay

I believe those were the people we were talking about...which sounded like the guy that was quoted. Given the tools he had chosen to break through his own roof, I'm making an educated guess that he had at least some physical ability and wasn't handicap or otherwise infirm.

Even if they couldn't have gotten out of the city, unless they had to walk barefoot through 20 miles of glass and swampland there's no reason why they couldn't have at least tried to find a more secure shelter with far more safety standards than their KB crackerjack box.

[samikeyp]

I sympathize with the people who couldn't get out. I don't sympathize with those who could get out but didn't. What sucks about those people is the rescue workers who have to risk injury or death trying to save their dumb asses.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

People need to quit with the walking talk. Even if you're a healthy young person, what type of distance do you really expect to cover, no matter what day over the weekend you left.

First of all, there was no safe place to walk. Secondly people reported that most cars were full leaving hardly any chance for the "hopefully someone would pick me up" crew. And thirdly, hurricane force winds extended over 100 miles from the eye so good luck walking 100 miles in a couple of days through the swamps.

And for the people claiming they would "run", what would you do after a couple of hours when you couldn't run anymore (if some of these "runners" could even last that long). Even if you where a marathon class runner, you can't escape the storm, especially at it's originally projected landfall.

And Obiwan, I like your posts and you seem like a good person but your situation doesn't apply. You had a vehicle to start out with that just happened to break down. I'd imagine this was unexpected as well so when you left, you had no reason to believe you wouldn't escape the storm. Most of the people who stayed behind had no transportation options.

They've shown pics of three people running through the rain to the Superdome and in each case, their homes have been described as destroyed. These are the people that decided to "run their happy asses" to better shelter when their own collapsed.

Most of us are fortunate to be in areas that rarely see this type of devastation and we are fortunate to own vehicles and have decent economic means. New Orleans is a very poor town and these people where simply caught with no where to go.

I'm sure that practically everyone who could hitch a ride out did and despite the presence of a few dumbasses who could but didn't, we can't make judgements about these people.

[2pac]

2 of the 10 chelters are reporting major structural damage

[Jelly]

Everyone can sit here and say all day that "they could have got out" but that's crap. Sure, some of them were dumb and chose to stay but thousands and thousands had absolutely no choice.

I am applying that judgment directly to those who could have left but didn't and there are plenty of people in that category. We all saw people interviewed on the news refusing to leave for bull reasons. There was a couple in their 60s interviewed on Fox in front of their house (which had like 3 cars in the driveway btw) who laughed and said they weren't going to leave because they'd lived there all their lives and no storm was going to chase them out. I saw another interview of several men saying they weren't going to leave and that they'd rather watch this than a movie. If those same people are now calling for rescue, I'd say screw them. Right now on CNN there is a guy from rescue services going to great pains trying to explain why he can't risk the lives of his men to send them out in treacherous conditions to save people right now. He seems a little irritated and I don't blame him.