Calling Out TimVP - on ref bias

[Guru of Nothing]

Since when did Spur fans turn into Nuggets fans?

Am I missing something? Is there an utopian order of Spurs fans who don't boo the refs when they miss a call?

This thread is about NBA refs, not Spur fans. If you have something to say, state your case.

[ALVAREZ6]

Am I missing something? Is there an utopian order of Spurs fans who don't boo the refs when they miss a call?

This thread is about NBA refs, not Spur fans. If you have something to say, state your case.

Perhaps what he meant was that we are still ing about refs, when that is a very popular thing to do in Denver....

[Guru of Nothing]

Perhaps what he meant was that we are still ing about refs, when that is a very popular thing to do in Denver....

At least you comprehend one of us.

[timvp]

Weak answer. I know many people personally who have not been able to appreciate the sport because they can't figure out from game to game what cons utes a foul. This is a direct reflection of the inconsistency of crews from game to game. It is a very real problem. Even players have to adapt to "how the game is being called". If they have to figure it out from game to game, how's the casual fan supposed to figure it out? If you're just beginning to watch the game, it is a huge turnoff. Even with the NHL lockout, I've not been able to recruit people into watching the NBA because of this.

First of all, if you are new to the sport then you are going to be confused when you first start watching. Learn the game over time and you'll learn and predict how the game will be called.

Players and coaches will always have to slightly adjust to the way games are called until the day that the games are reffed by robots. Even then, you'll probably still complain that R2 Bavett2 made the wrong call.

Exactly. They should be doing a much better job but they hardly even try.

NBA refs are the best. It's not a matter of not trying. It's a matter of being a difficult sport to ref. In fact, it's impossible to ref correctly all the time. It's a series of judgments made in fractions of seconds. You are never going to eliminate the human element.

I know he's no longer a ref.

Yeah you obviously knew he wasn't a ref by the comment: "The glaring problem with NBA refs is that they are allowed to police their own. They are supposed to review and reprimand any underperforming refs with the ultimate authority being the director of officials - himself a referee."

Now you are lying. Nice.

Do you really think it makes a huge difference that he isn't one now? Do you honestly think he's lost all allegiances and sympathies for referees? Do you think it's possible he worked with refs who are still active now? Please. If I'm a doctor who practiced for 30 years but is no longer a doctor, do you think I'd be more likely to make friends with practicing GP or not?

Not if his job depends on it. There really isn't much work out there for a retired NBA ref.

A retired ref would know better than anyone whether a current ref is doing a good job.

How many refs have been turfed over the years? I'd say the turnover is pretty low.

I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but there are numerous refs that are gone. Look it up if you care.

It is true that ex-refs would be qualified to judge calls but I doubt it's a skill that couldn't be learned by someone who wasn't a ref. If you absolutely had to have ex-refs on the disciplinary panel, it would be a good idea to recruit them from another league so there's absolutely no conflict of interest.

From another league? There aren't exactly NBAs everywhere. No other league on earth is even close. For one, the rules are different everywhere.

The more you talk, the less respect I have for your opinion on this subject.

Why not? You could review pretty much anything. If a flag is thrown to issue a challenge that stops play, you could ins ute a penality of 2 shots and loss of possession if the challenge is overturned. Judgement calls would be decided by majority votes of the 3 officials upon review. If you eliminate some timeouts like I mentioned, I doubt it slows the game down at all. It would lead to instant, public feedback of the refs and more accurate and exciting bball as the coaches would have to leave the team to it's own devices more often due to the fewer timeouts.

Yeah, and Santa Clause can come out and give presents to the fans while they wait. What reality do you live in?

The day will never come that a coach can challenge a block/charge and the refs go to the sidelines and vote on what the call should be.

Please.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what you'd think if you were JVG on that play by Finley with two feet out of bounds that pretty much decided a close playoff game. Had we lost at Denver when Tim was ejected after Melo slipped, I'm sure you'd have been understanding of that call as well.

Tim was ejected? News to me.

Perhaps if you took a refresher course on basketball, you wouldn't be so confused over what is a foul.

[smeagol]

But, dont dare state that, or your "not a real spurs fan"

No, you are whinney spurs fan. A real one, but whinney nonetheless.

[smeagol]

Am I missing something? Is there an utopian order of Spurs fans who don't boo the refs when they miss a call?

You can boo all you want. Its a free country.

This thread is about NBA refs, not Spur fans. If you have something to say, state your case.

I already have. Here's what I have to say (posted on page three), in case you missed it:

Complaining against the refs seems to be deeply embeded in our nature as human beings. In every single sport, fans complain against the refs. In Argentina, when the refs enter the soccer field before a game (the ref and the two linesmen do it together, 5 minutes before the game starts), the fans boo and whistle like there was no tomorrow. I find it so stupid.

I agree with all timvp says. Specially with the fact that oficiating an NBA game must be a tough job, and the NBA refs do a good job at it.

The proof of this is that after an important game, if you go to the fan boards of the two teams that just played, you will find that in both boards, fans are complaining about the refs.

They say that if a jury's veredict does not satisfy either party, then justice has been served. Same thing here. The fact that everybody complains against the refs is proof enough that there is no fix.

Ask a Lakers fan and he will say that Tim gets away with fouls all the time. Ask a Spurs fan and he will say Tim does not get enough calls. And the list goes on and on.

Make in it a habit to complain against the refs is weak. Man, just go the LG.net and read their equivalent of our Game Blog. Its pathetic.

I hope Spurs fan don't mutate into Laker or Denver fans. That would be sad

[Obstructed_View]

You got me there. NBA refs > Olympic officials.

Thank you, but on further consideration, it wasn't a very good example on my part. The olympic officials hate Americans as much as anyone else, and the olympic committee as well as FIBA is probably about as corrupt a bunch as there is. Suggesting that it's just incompetence is probably wrong. I don't watch much college basketball, but I don't recall there being a ton of terrible calls.

[Obstructed_View]

Perhaps what he meant was that we are still ing about refs, when that is a very popular thing to do in Denver....

The Nuggets fans think they should get every call, and think that people that beat them should be physically harmed. The main point of this thread, as far as I'm concerned, is that Ray Allen should mathematically not have gotten nearly every call in his favor in an otherwise evenly officiated game. If that makes me a bad Spurs fan, then it's a good thing I don't watch the Spurs to impress other people. If some of you guys aren't willng to acknowledge that it seemed odd, then there's no point in having a conversation about it anyway.

[Guru of Nothing]

I've come to the conclusion that we cannot discuss the actions of refs without questioning the character of the individual who questions the refs.

BYE!

[Obstructed_View]

I agree. As I mentioned before, I would never have entered this conversation had the Spurs lost the game just because it would look like sour grapes. Thank god the next game is about to start. As I think this thread proves, we were seriously thin on anything interesting to discuss about game 2.

[TwoHandJam]

First of all, if you are new to the sport then you are going to be confused when you first start watching. Learn the game over time and you'll learn and predict how the game will be called.

Players and coaches will always have to slightly adjust to the way games are called until the day that the games are reffed by robots. Even then, you'll probably still complain that R2 Bavett2 made the wrong call.

I've watched a lot of NBA games and there is a of a lot of variance in the way games are called. More so than any other sport I've watched. Decide on how to call the games and stick to it. Don't ref one game like a rugby match and another like a ballet recital.

NBA refs are the best. It's not a matter of not trying. It's a matter of being a difficult sport to ref. In fact, it's impossible to ref correctly all the time. It's a series of judgments made in fractions of seconds. You are never going to eliminate the human element.

That's where the disciplinary changes and replay come in. To reduce the human element. You may think NBA refs are the best but there's a huge contigent that disagrees. The nature of the sport doesn't absolve them from getting better.

Yeah you obviously knew he wasn't a ref by the comment: "The glaring problem with NBA refs is that they are allowed to police their own. They are supposed to review and reprimand any underperforming refs with the ultimate authority being the director of officials - himself a referee."

Now you are lying. Nice.

GMAFB. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I wrote what I did because to me it makes little difference that he's no longer active. The guy was a ref for many years and as far as I'm concerned he still is a ref for all intents and purposes. There is no way in he can be impartial towards other refs who used to be his peers.

I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but there are numerous refs that are gone. Look it up if you care.

I don't know where to look it up but I'd bet the number that are turfed are very low. I don't often hear about it and I read a lot of press on the NBA.

From another league? There aren't exactly NBAs everywhere. No other league on earth is even close. For one, the rules are different everywhere.

The more you talk, the less respect I have for your opinion on this subject.

Get over yourself. Do you really think reffing is such rocket science that a good ref from college or a euroleague couldn't adapt? Spare me.

Yeah, and Santa Clause can come out and give presents to the fans while they wait. What reality do you live in?

The day will never come that a coach can challenge a block/charge and the refs go to the sidelines and vote on what the call should be.

Please.

No, you please tell me why not this couldn't be done with the help of video replay.

Tim was ejected? News to me.

He received his sixth foul. Any more hairs you wish to split?[/quote]

Perhaps if you took a refresher course on basketball, you wouldn't be so confused over what is a foul.

You make me laugh. Those last two reffing snafus I mentioned were very serious and could easily have determined the outcome of playoff games. I'm sure you'd be all smiles about the refs if we lost a playoff game due to calls like that.