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  1. #76
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    All of this to prove that Bush got into the Guard because he was the son of a wealthy congressman and that he missed a doctor's appointment once in the Guard.

  2. #77
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    How convenient! The DNC starts slamming Bush with a "Fortunate Son" theme this week, just as Kerry fundraiser Ben Barnes appears in an interview with CBS News claiming that he got Bush into the Guard at the behest of the Bush family. CBS also bases their report on do ents with questionable authenticity about Bush's service record. Do ents for which CBS has yet to name the "experts" who authenticated those do ents. From whence did those do ents come?

    AP: Dems take chance with 'Fortunate Son' slam

  3. #78
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    Tell me what the "experts" based their claim of forgery on?

  4. #79
    xrayzebra
    Guest
    "memo to file" back in my days, I retired in 1970, the
    phrase used was "memo for record". And it was used
    to record something you wanted to retain for record
    purposes. Never in my 20 odd years have I seen the
    phrase "memo to file". Doesn't really prove anything
    except it was as commonly used phrase.

  5. #80
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Give Ms. Lines a call and ask her:

    Independent do ent examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a do ent expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript - a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" - as evidence indicating forgery.

    Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

    "I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the do ents at her office in Paradise Valley, Ariz. She produced a nearly identical do ent using her computer's Microsoft Word software.

    At this time I would like to revisit Spurm's statement from page 1 of this thread:

    Even if it was possible to create a superscript effect by adjusting font size and level, who the would do that when they can simply type "111th" like they did in the heading?

    Also, the letters being offset is inconclusive, because this is clearly a scan or fax, and the entire do ent is at a slant.

    And more importantly, WHO ING CARES ABOUT THIS ??
    Indeed.

  6. #81
    Aggie Hoopsfan
    Guest

  7. #82
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Oh, it's starting now. It's Rove's fault now. The Kerry campaign/CBS News/DNC have been had...or perhaps they would like for you to think that.



    Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe today said neither his organization nor John Kerry´s campaign leaked to CBS do ents questioning President Bush´s service record, which may have been forged.

    He suggested White House adviser Karl Rove could be behind the do ents.

    "I can unequivocally say that no one involved here at the Democratic National Committee had anything at all to do with any of those do ents. If I were an aspiring young journalist, I think I would ask Karl Rove that question," Mr. McAuliffe said.
    Not my favorite source, but it will do for now

  8. #83
    Yonivore
    Guest
    ...the Washington Times.

    Excerpts:
    "Asked later if he believed Mr. Rove or Republican operatives were involved, he said: 'I am telling you that nobody — Democratic National Committee or groups associate with us — were involved in any way with these do ents. I am just saying I would ask Karl Rove the same question.'"

    "He did not explain how the White House would benefit by providing forged do ents trying to undermine Mr. Bush´s service record, but emphasized that he 'can unequivocally speak for the Kerry campaign' in saying they had nothing to do with the do ents either."
    . . .
    "The Prowler, an Internet political column, is reporting that the do ents attributed to Col. Killian were given to a DNC staffer 'more than six weeks ago.' It says the do ents were handed over to the campaign of Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry."
    First, I believe that if the memos are verified as forgeries, the Kerry Campaign for the Presidency may well hinge on which of the above statements is true.

    Second, if Terry McAuliffe is, himself, in doubt about the origin, purpose, and objective of the memos -- as is suggested by him deflecting this to Karl Rove -- why did he, this morning, send this e-mail blast (heavily relying on the authenticity of those memos and Ben Barnes' lies) just this morning?


    It gets curiouser and curiouser.

  9. #84
    Aggie Hoopsfan
    Guest
    lol, well I guess McAuliffe is thinking all the conspiracy nut jobs like Dan will buy his BS excuse hook, line, and sinker. Not a bad idea with criminally insane folks, but middle America is rolling their eyes at this one.

  10. #85
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    So you are all discounting an Eye witness and the fact that this image from a different Bush Doc clearly shows a rasied smaller font superscript? And I think I need to point out that even though the main do ent is dated in 73 the part with the superscript is dated in 68.


  11. #86
    Yonivore
    Guest
    Yes, we are.

    Besides, that's not the do ent nor was it produced by the same author as the others.

    No one ever said that superscripting wasn't done...just that the devices readily available to Lt. Commander Killian wouldn't have been capable.

    This appears to be a central file of some kind. They may have had better equipment or some government spec. typewriter or printer that did it. Nonetheless, this do ent isn't in question, I don't believe.

    Also, that's not Times New Roman -- the font used on the forged memo were in Times New Roman, unavailable on the Selectric typewriter (or any other) for that matter, at the time.

    You're really going for broke on this. What are you, Dan Rather's nephew?

  12. #87
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    A Major General is lying to smear Bush?

    Times new roman was based upon the selectric font which was based upon times new roman print font....You do realize that don't you?

    The doc doesn't look like a central doc at all. It looks like a 3 by 5 card which accompanied his personel file.

  13. #88
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    There are other witnesses who have stated they believe these to be fakes, including a co-worker, Killian's wife, and Killian's son.

    And apparently every expert who is willing to put their name with their opinion.

    Here's a random thought: perhaps Hodges created the do ents his own damn self?

    INDC Blog: Are the CBS National Guard Do ents Fake?

    Right now the only thing that matters is whether the Kerry campaign/CBS News/DNC knew these were fakes and when they found out they were. The one argument in their favor is: who would be so stupid to risk so much over so little?

  14. #89
    Yonivore
    Guest
    Fine. They're real DeSPURate. Feel better?

    Because, of course, as everyone realizes -- the world is waiting for someone in this forum to resolve this issue.

    LOL

    Nevermind the bank of forensic scientists who have gone on record as saying they believe the do ents to be forged.

  15. #90
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Basically you have to believe that Killian was the only one at the TANG who had access to a typewriter capable of producing such a do ent and that this was basically the only time it was used there.

    So who's trying to wag the dog here? Is it the Kerry camp/CBS/DNC or is it the omnipresent Rove?

  16. #91
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    Why then did the White house pass on them with no comment?

  17. #92
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Again, because it puts the onus on CBS and perhaps, just perhaps, because no one gives a **** about Bush's Guard service except for rabid Demo partisans.

  18. #93
    Yonivore
    Guest
    What's to say?

    The President has repeatedly stated that he completed his obligation to the Guard. And, they actually did comment to the effect of, they are unable to characterize the words or get inside the head of a dead man.

    Although, they said so a little more diplomatically.

    Releasing the Memos were in keeping with the President's pledge to release all do ents related to his Guard service. It was a perfunctory gesture for which they owed the Press no comment.

    Really, I think the President wants to talk about 2004, not 1972 or 1968.

  19. #94
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    This isn't about 1973 this is about 2004 and his continued lie about why he didn't take the medical exam.

  20. #95
    Yonivore
    Guest
    He's already said he didn't take the exam because he wasn't going to be flying anymore. He was allowed to transfer to an Alabama unit so he could work on a campaign while completing his duty.

    There's nothing in the record to contradict that.

  21. #96
    Spurminator
    Guest
    Who cares? Are you trying to get an impeachment?

    If the Swift Boat Vets fiasco is irrelevant then this is ten times moreso.

  22. #97
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Again, nobody cares. Most people assume the worst when they hear accusations. It didn't matter in 2000 and it doesn't matter today.

    I think most people believe that Bush got into the NG due to his dad and that he probably skipped a physical. BFD.

    This is such a non-issue but frankly I hope the Demos and the compliant media keep harping on this for some time.

    The Kerry campaign is rapidly becoming the worst presidential campaign I've ever seen, and I've seen some horrible ones on both sides.

  23. #98
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    He's already said he didn't take the exam because he wasn't going to be flying anymore.
    The memo directly contradicts this...Ordering him to report for a failed appearance for the medical exam is not the same as being told he didn't have to take the exam because his plane was being phased out.

  24. #99
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    In my expert opinion George W. Bush probably intentionally missed that physical. Also in my expert opinion most Americans don't care.

    'Questions' about Bush's NG service didn't help Gore the first time around. It didn't help Queen Ann back in '94. It's not that the right do ents were not cited or unavailable. It's not in how it was presented. This is just like Clinton and the draft dodger label. Most people already assume the worst. Bringing it up again and again is a waste of time for the opposition.

    You don't attack a sitting president for what he did 35 years ago. The GOP learned that lesson back in '96 and it looks like the Demos will have to learn that themselves.

    Of course, perhaps someone in the Democrat party would love to see Kerry fail. McAuliffe is a Clinton pick. Supposedly BClinton is giving Kerry "advice" from the hospital bed. Yeah.

  25. #100
    Yonivore
    Guest
    "The memo directly contradicts this"
    Doesn't the memo have to be real? Consider the following:

    "The widow and son of the late Lt. Col Jerry Killian both say they don't believe the do ents CBS News used to claim George W. Bush failed to meet performance standards during his Vietnam-era service in the Texas Air National Guard are genuine."

    "For now, CBS is standing by its claim that the do ents are from Lt. Col. Killian's files and that it consulted 'a handwriting analyst and do ent expert who believes the material is authentic.' But CBS won't reveal the name of the expert and the network's claims are challenged by several other experts who say it is almost certain the do ents were generated by a computer that wouldn't have been in use in 1972."

    "But CBS has begun an internal investigation after reports surfaced from inside CBS that the do ents may have been brought to the network's attention by Democratic National Committee opposition researchers. Today, the network also trimmed back its statements to rival news organizations about how 'convinced' CBS is of the do ents' authenticity. If the do ents indeed turn out to be fakes, it won't be the first time CBS has been snookered by partisans in a presidential race."

    "In 1992, Bill Clinton's presidential campaign was nearly ended when tapes between the Arkansas governor and cabaret singer Gennifer Flowers were released. At the time, KCBS, the network's owned-and-operated affiliate in Los Angeles, took the tape and submitted it to private detective and forensic tape expert Anthony Pellicano for analysis. Mr. Pellicano's conclusions that the tapes were 'misleading' and 'not credible' played a role in Mr. Clinton surviving the controversy."

    "Only later was it learned that Mr. Pellicano had no formal training in evaluating tapes and was at the time being paid by Democratic sources to squelch 'bimbo eruptions' surrounding Mr. Clinton. In other words, Mr. Clinton's own private eye was able to discredit one of the most damaging eruptions that preceded Monica Lewinsky. In his own memoirs published this year, Mr. Clinton confessed to the Flowers affair, contradicting his fierce denials at the time."

    "Years later, Mr. Pellicano did demonstrate facility with tapes when police investigating threats made against Los Angeles Times reporter Anita Busch uncovered evidence that Mr. Pellicano had been involved and had also illegally wiretapped her conversations. Mr. Pellicano is now serving a 2 1/2 year federal prison term for possessing firearms and explosives. A federal grand jury is still investigating allegations that he wiretapped Hollywood celebrities. CBS would be wise to conclude its internal investigation quickly. If it results in bad news, it should cut its losses immediately."

    "Meanwhile, former Clinton and Gore operative Chris Lehane, an acknowledged master of the black arts of opposition research, is already making the rounds on television hinting that Karl Rove could have planted fake National Guard do ents to embarrass Democrats. If CBS is offered that scoop, my advice is simple: Don't take it, no matter how many do ents with Karl Rove's signature you are shown."
    I'm beyond worrying about whether or not this has any affect on the Bush campaign...I think that's been settled. I'm into the realm of hoping this is a career ender for Rather. Judging by the fact he's maintaining his position while refusing to share who his "experts" are, tells me that he's concerned about this. Well, he's gonna hold forth on the matter this evening during the "CBS EVENING KERRYFEST WITH DAN RATHER BIASED."

    It'd make my day if he acknowledged the deceit and resigned. That'd make my month. After that, Dan who?

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