Shaq v. Duncan

[Warlord23]

You gotta give Poppovich some credit for constructing this team to fit with Duncan perfectly. He is a great coach and could you imagine San Antonio's defense combined with Shaq on offense. That would be scary.

The problem with that is that defense and O'Neal in the same sentence happen only on paper. Shaq's defense is limited to blocking some shots and occupying a truckload of space, which in itself is not bad considering the quality of centers in the NBA. Duncan methodically ripped apart Shaq's defense in the 2003 playoffs.

Tim, on the other hand, is a better rebounder, changes/blocks shots more frequently, and rotates better on defense. While Shaq, despite his size, has always been considered a notch below Mutombo, Robinson, Mourning, Ratliff in defense, Tim is one of the frontrunners in post-defense.

[ambchang]

I don't remember the past but athletes have improved as time went on. I don't think that same Chamberlin guy could pull off those stats now that he did back then. There are stronger and faster players these days than there were back then. You love Shaq or you hate him but all the attention he brought to other team was shear dominance when he was at his prime. We wouldn't be talking about him so much if he wasn't so dominant.

No no, don't change the subject, talk more about Chamberlain and the 3 second lane.
Sure, atheletes are known to be faster today, but with the same level of nutruition and training, what is to say Chamberlain won't improve just as much? Besides, you want to talk about compe ion? How would you like Russell, Jabbar, Nate Thurmond and Wes Unseld vs. Yao Ming, Rik Smits, and Brad Miller? You want to talk about Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning? Then you have to talk about how Shaq was, at best, 3rd in that group.
Fact is, Chamberlain averaged 30.1 ppg over his career, Shaq couldn't even do it ONCE over a season. Chamberlain averaged 50.4 ppg over a season, once grabbed 55 rebounds and averaged 27.4, once led the league in assists. THey didn't keep track of blocked shots at the time, so he wasn't credited in this field.
Don't get me wrong, Shaq is an amazing basketball player with very good footwork and a dominant offensive game, but to call him the most dominant ever is to show ones ignorance in the game of basketball.

[ambchang]

You gotta give Poppovich some credit for constructing this team to fit with Duncan perfectly. He is a great coach and could you imagine San Antonio's defense combined with Shaq on offense. That would be scary.

Again flaunting your ignorance. Tim Duncan IS the anchor of the Spurs defense. These are not interchangable parts, and you can't just sub one guy in the rotation and expect the rest of the parts to work the way they did before.

[Spursdaone]

Since I've only been watching basketball for 15 years I would say Shaq is the most dominating player I've seen but don't know anything before that. He has shot a remarkable shooting percentage that could make a bad shooting team into a good shooting team because 55-60% + 40% from a guard with him taking more shots is over 50%. Duncan shoots 5-10% less and that is a big difference. I'll give it that Duncan is better defensively but I would give it to a person who shoots that high any day.

[NCaliSpurs]

And when push came to shove, Shaq actually played better in that series against the Pistons, while Tim wiltered against the Pistons.

If by "wiltered" you meant lead your team to a game 7 victory over said Pistons, then you are right.

[Spursdaone]

The difference between Duncan and Shaq is you can slow down Duncan with Sheed or Malone but there is no one who can slow down the big Diesel who owns all. Today I think Duncan is better but 3 years no way would I pick Duncan.

[ChumpDumper]

And when push came to shove, Shaq actually played better in that series against the Pistons

Letting Ben Wallace go for 18pts and 22reb in an elimination game is playing better?

[ambchang]

Since I've only been watching basketball for 15 years I would say Shaq is the most dominating player I've seen but don't know anything before that. He has shot a remarkable shooting percentage that could make a bad shooting team into a good shooting team because 55-60% + 40% from a guard with him taking more shots is over 50%. Duncan shoots 5-10% less and that is a big difference. I'll give it that Duncan is better defensively but I would give it to a person who shoots that high any day.

So how did you come up with Shaq #1 over Wilt again? Something about the 3 second lane?
So now you are talking about FG% being the newest gauge of a dominant player? Ever heard of James Donaldson?
We should start talking about defense somewhere, but I am sure you are not familiar with it.

[ambchang]

The difference between Duncan and Shaq is you can slow down Duncan with Sheed or Malone but there is no one who can slow down the big Diesel who owns all. Today I think Duncan is better but 3 years no way would I pick Duncan.

Really? How did David Robinson, bad back and all, guarded Shaq 1 on 1, slow him down to 22 ppg in the playoffs again?

[ceds]

My 2 cents...

Shaq was considered the best player in the league with KG and TD tied at 2nd.

Then in 2003 TD got the better of Shaq and led his team to a ring as the sole superstar. At this point he clearly jumps ahead of KG and people begin the "Is he better then Shaq talk".

04 was the most important season in finding out who the best player is and heres why:

KG had a MVP season
TD had a healthy spurs team going for a repeat
Shaq was now doubted by some as the best player in the game

In the end Shaq put a beat down on TD and KG and proved that he is still the best player in the game when he wants to be

[NCaliSpurs]

Except that he lost to the Pistons two years in a row. The team the Spurs just beat.


FYI, Malone put the beat down on Shaq, because as a role player he didn't have to worry about fouling out.

[ChumpDumper]

In the end

Isn't now the end? Who's on top now? Who lost to Detroit? Whose team was in the lottery?

[ceds]

Isn't now the end? Who's on top now? Who lost to Detroit? Whose team was in the lottery?

point taken, a 29 year old TD is better then a 34 yr old Shaq. (But not a 33 yr old shaq)

Shaq at 29 was just a monster

[ambchang]

My 2 cents...

Shaq was considered the best player in the league with KG and TD tied at 2nd.

Then in 2003 TD got the better of Shaq and led his team to a ring as the sole superstar. At this point he clearly jumps ahead of KG and people begin the "Is he better then Shaq talk".

04 was the most important season in finding out who the best player is and heres why:

KG had a MVP season
TD had a healthy spurs team going for a repeat
Shaq was now doubted by some as the best player in the game

In the end Shaq put a beat down on TD and KG and proved that he is still the best player in the game when he wants to be

Agreed, Shaq with Malone, Kobe and Payton is 0.4 seconds better than Duncan with 22 yo Parker and wild Ginobili

[Spursdaone]

Really? How did David Robinson, bad back and all, guarded Shaq 1 on 1, slow him down to 22 ppg in the playoffs again?

I believe that was the year where Shaq had surgery right before the season and missed alot of games. He was in the worst shape of his career that year. The lakers owned the spurs when Shaq was in decent shape.

[ambchang]

I believe that was the year where Shaq had surgery right before the season and missed alot of games. He was in the worst shape of his career that year. The lakers owned the spurs when Shaq was in decent shape.

Both 02 and 03? And how do you explain him scoring 35 vs. the Nets in the next series?
BTW, Shaq missed around 20 games, hardly "a lot" given that it was at the beginning of the season, and he is ALWAYS out of shape.

[Spursdaone]

Both 02 and 03? And how do you explain him scoring 35 vs. the Nets in the next series?
BTW, Shaq missed around 20 games, hardly "a lot" given that it was at the beginning of the season, and he is ALWAYS out of shape.

He was in better shape in 2001-2002. That is why he played well against the nets. The next year is when he missed training camp and 20 games which gave him less time to get in shape. He never looks in shape but that year he was way out of line with his weight. Shaq owns San Antonio when in decent shape.

[Spursdaone]

Shaq was better and most his career he was on a sorry Magic team with Penny Hardaway turned to once Shaq left him. Shaq makes everybody better. Kobe is not the same without Shaq either and all of a sudden Wade is a superstar. This is not a coincidence but the effects to having Shaq on your team.

[atlfan25]

i suppose injuries had no affect on why penny turned to right?

[Spursdaone]

i suppose injuries had no affect on why penny turned to right?

That was one reason and the other reason is not having Shaq. Those 2 together equal failure.

[ambchang]

He was in better shape in 2001-2002. That is why he played well against the nets. The next year is when he missed training camp and 20 games which gave him less time to get in shape. He never looks in shape but that year he was way out of line with his weight. Shaq owns San Antonio when in decent shape.

Dude, dug yourself in the whole AGAIN!
Shaq averaged 22 in the 02 playoffs, and about 25 or so in the 03 playoffs, the one he got abused by Duncan.

[Spursdaone]

Dude, dug yourself in the whole AGAIN!
Shaq averaged 22 in the 02 playoffs, and about 25 or so in the 03 playoffs, the one he got abused by Duncan.

You are wrong. Shaq averaged 28.5 PPG in O2 Playoffs and 27.0 PPG in the 03 playoffs

[ambchang]

You are wrong. Shaq averaged 28.5 PPG in O2 Playoffs and 27.0 PPG in the 03 playoffs

Buddy, owned again, we are talking about Shaq vs. Spurs, where Shaq was slowed down by a hobbled Robinson, something you said nobody can do.
2002: 23 pts, 19 pts, 22 pts, 22 pts, 21 pts = 21.4ppg
2003: 24pts, 27 pts, 21 pts, 29 pts, 20 pts, 31pts = 25.3 ppg
Now tell me how Shaq can't be slowed down again?

[Spursdaone]

I guess Shaq didn't play enough games to get a higher point average in 2002.

[ambchang]

I guess Shaq didn't play enough games to get a higher point average in 2002.

Don't talk about something else, talk about how Shaq cannot be slowed down, and therefore was the most dominating force the league have ever seen. Talk about Wilt and the 3 second, talk about Malone and his "weak" supporting cast, talk about Garnett and his overrated all star teammates.