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I think that Horry was a "Non-Bird" free agent after they declined his option. (They didn't have his Bird or Early Bird). The placeholder for Non-Bird free agents is 120%.
But I'm not sure if I understand it correctly.
Again, that doesn't mean jack. What matters is renouncing his rights and again, that doesn't matter because we have passed June 30th.
How many more times are we going to have to go through this?
I think that Horry was a "Non-Bird" free agent after they declined his option. (They didn't have his Bird or Early Bird). The placeholder for Non-Bird free agents is 120%.
But I'm not sure if I understand it correctly.
That's exactly how I understand it.To free up the cap space to sign Manu, the Spurs had to do two things with Horry.
1) Decline his option to get that amount off the cap.
2) Renounce his rights to get his 120% placeholder value off the cap.
I'm completely open to the possibility we don't have EB rights for some obscure reason. But, given the way Ferry came into his EB deal and what we've learned here -- it looks like the Spurs have them for Horry.
Early Bird rights for Horry have been restored as of today, assuming he was renounced last summer. So open up a cold one, get filled with some patriotic fervor this weekend and go beat up some foreigners if you are still feeling on edge.
Early Bird rights for Horry have been restored as of today, assuming he was renounced last summer. So open up a cold one, get filled with some patriotic fervor this weekend and go beat up some foreigners if you are still feeling on edge.
Here is what I am getting out of reading the FAQ..
#1.What the Spurs did or did not do with Horry's rights last season is meaningless in defining him as an EB FA this season....it doesn't even matter if we regained his rights on June 30 or not. It's a moot point because what a team did or did not do in the first year has nothing to do with getting a players EB rights.
#2. To be an EB FA the only qualification is that you have played with a team for 2 seasons without changing teams. That's all it says...Own teams FA for 2 seasons without changing teams.
I am just trying to make sure there isn't some obscure reason we lost his rights...
There is a grey area there with regards to Team Options on players...I just want to be certain that within that grey area...there's no loophole that could have caused us to lose Horry's rights...
It bothers me that the journalists automatically get that we have Devin's EB rights...but not Horry's...they should be concluding we have Horry's for the same reasons they conclude we have Devin's...why aren't they drawing that obvious conclusion?
The SA journalists should be well aware that Horry has been with the team for 2 seasons.
The only possible rub has to do with how renouncing Horry last summer affects the rights the Spurs hold on him. Everything we've seen points to those rights being reinstated in full today.They could be under the impression that renoucing Horry means the Spurs started back at zero last summer and are now only halfway to attaining EB rights.The SA journalists should be well aware that Horry has been with the team for 2 seasons.
Does anyone have a link to the article where the Spurs declined Horry's option last season? I want to see if they mentioned anything about renouncing rights...I read that FAQ and there is a signifigant grey area in the area of Team Options..
Let me ask this...what rights did they renounce last season? I haven't seen any exception rights tied into being with team for 1 season...how can you renounce rights that don't exist?
If the Spurs had been over the cap...they couldn't have signed him at that place holder %.
The Bird rights begin after being with a team for 2 seasons...not before.
As I explained above, I believe he was a Non-Bird free agent after they declined his option. So then he counted the 120% amount (all of your free agents count against your cap in one form or another until they are renounced, signed by you, or signed by someone else). Then he was renounced, so he no longer counted as 120%.
Do you understand now? (I'm not being condescending)
The Road Goes on Forever and the Party Never Ends...
I'm posting this for the second time in this thread, feel free to actually read it this timehttp://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#17NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are defined as veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents. This exception allows a team to re-sign its own free agent to a salary starting at 120% of the player's salary in the previous season or 120% of the minimum salary, whichever is greater, even if they are over the cap. Raises are limited to 10% and contracts are limited to six years when this exception is used.
Since it is the second time, I am being condescending.
Whott, the only way for them to sign Manu was to both decline his option and renounce him. It happend dude, let it go!
So what would have happened if the Spurs had been over the cap last season when they declined his option?
Automatic cancellation of his Early, Early Bird right? No paper work necessary?
They could not have resigned him at that placeholder figuree...whether they formally renounced his rights or not...it would have been a violation of the CBA.
As far as I know there is no exception right for being with a team for one season...other than getting a raise his second season...
IOW...what ever right they renounced last season? It had nothing to do with Early Bird rights...zip, zero, zilch, nada.
What right did they renounce?
The ability to go over the cap to resign him after 1 year, at more than the vet min? They never had that right to renounce....it doesn't exist
His pre early, early bird right? Never heard of it.
Whottt, are you reading my posts?
They renounced him as a Non-Bird free agent.
You don't renounce rights, you renounce players. So whether or not a player has any exception coming up, you renounce them in order to remove their placeholder against their cap.
Whottt -- all of your free agents count against your cap in some way until one of the following happens:
How much they count against the cap depends on what kind of free agent they are.The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the player's affect on his team's team salary is based on his new salary.
The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes the new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.
The team renounces the player.
Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie "scale" contract At least the average salary 150%*
Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie "scale" contract Below the average salary 200%*
Larry Bird, coming off rookie "scale" contract At least the average salary 200% in 98-99*
225% in 99-00*
250% in the remaining seasons*
Larry Bird, coming off rookie "scale" contract Below the average salary 300%*
Early Bird Any 130%*
Non-Bird Any 120%*
In Horry's case, it was Non-Bird (as explained above in Chump's definition of Non-Bird).
I don't know why they would have had to renounce him. Renouncing a player means you are giving up your rights to re-sign them based off their last contract. After the Spurs didn't pick up the option, they didn't have any rights to sign him using his previous season's salary.
To clarify, lets say he was making 4 million in 2004 with an option in 2005 for 5 million. When the Spurs didn't pick up that option, they no longer had the opportunity to re-sign him using the 2004 salary as a basis. When they didn't pick up his option, they had to sign him with either cap room or an exception. So to me, he didn't have to be renounced because the Spurs didn't have any rights to him. Not even the first year bird rights or whatever.
Why the is this thread continuing? The Spurs have Early Bird rights for Horry.
man, it's a 3 day weekend.
Laters.
-MB
Yes, they did, but if they were over the cap (they were before letting Hedo go and renouncing almost everyone else besides Manu), they were limited to giving him a new deal starting at 120% of the previous year's deal -- that ended up being only a little over the option year amount.After the Spurs didn't pick up the option, they didn't have any rights to sign him using his previous season's salary.
Regradless of Bird Rights, every free agent counts against the cap until signed by the team, signed by another team, or renounced. Even first year players with no bird rights.
So when the declined his option, he was still counting against the cap. In order to remove that placeholder and free up the nessecary cap room to fit in Manu's contract they had to renounce him.
I guess it comes down to if after the Spurs didn't pick up his option, were they still able to offer him a contract starting at 120% of his 2004 salary? If yes, then the Spurs would have had to renounce him. In no, then it wouldn't make sense to have to renounce a player you have no special rights to.
You know whats ed up? The people in here arguing aren't the new ones who havne't been through several offseasons where everything in the CBA is disected in here, it's the old vets who should know this stuff. It's like we get some sick ing high off of arguing about the CBA.
Either way, everything that I've read says that if you have a player for two years, they are an EB candidate.
So yeah, MB is ahead of us. Pop open a cold one.
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