Are we certain that the Spurs have Horry's early bird rights? I have seen two articles(one national and one SA) that seem to think we are going to have to pay him out of the MLE...
Now we did renounce Horry's rights last summer...
But the CBA faq(which I read slightly during some stupid ing arugment with Chump) says that you can renounce a players rights for 1 year and the reclaim them with the proper exception for # of years on the team...but why haven't I seen an article that realizes we have Horry's early bird rights? Every time I see him mentioned they talk about him getting part of the MLE...
I've seen the board capologists get owned by the Spurs and cap before...like no one realizing how that Team Option on Ferry's contract could be used as a trade perk to clear capspace to get Hedo.....That was probably due to a lack of information on Ferry's last year being a team option..but still...they got owned on that one.
So at this point I am questioning whether or not we do have his EB rights for certain...
That is an question for ChumpDumper. From everything I've read, the Spurs can use EB rights with Horry. I brought up the fact that the Spurs renounced him, but ChumpDumper came back with the quote from the CBA clarifying that he should still be an EB player. I double checked and it seems right to me, but I haven't read up on the CBA since last year so I'm a little rusty.
There's a lot of articles that say that the Spurs have to use the MLE to pay him (case in point the Marc Stein article just posted about Oberto). But I honestly don't know.
Whottt - by any chance did you post the free agent list (or read it) on prowrestling.com?
Yeah...that's the same place I got it from...and the faq does seem to say that when you renounce the rights you get them back exactly a year later...but no one else is saying that...I can see why Chump made that point...
But.............
Chump didn't catch the Ferry contract thing either....and don't forget that Chump liked Charlie Ward too...and let's not forget than Chump tends to get owned frequently when the subject isn't Pop related...I usually do trust Chump on cap related issues(as opposed to loving chokers)...but it's disconcerting that there isn't any confirmation in the media...if we don't have his EB rights this FA period becomes a whole lot more challenging...
Just sayin'...I haven't seen any media confirmation that we do have Horry's early bird rights...
No...I haven't watched wrestling in a long time because they bumped Chris Benoit to midcard and are jobbing him out...if he's not main eventing I pretty much lose interest due to all the crappy high profile matches with stiffs that can't move in the ring. Haven't followed it in a year or so, or been on any wrestling websites.
Luckily, the media is clueless this time of year. The amount of errors is amazing this time of year.
As far as trusting what you read, this forum > local or nation media. It still isn't 100% right all the time though. ChumpDumper usually has a good grip on the CBA so I'm guessing that the Spurs do have EB rights on Horry.
Whottt - let me go search for you and see what I can find. I'm curious too.
I agree...Chump is strong on the cap...but I am ready to pounce if my hopes have been falsely raised on this...
Ok, TY Kori.
The thing that bothers me...I think one of the articles that said we had to sign Horry out of the MLE was by Ludden...and Ludden usually does know what the Spurs $$ and FA situation is...
Bear with me as I just think and type regarding this renouncing/Early Bird Right of Horry.
If the Spurs renounced Horry last year, then according to Coon they would give up the use of his Bird/Early Bird/Non Bird exception until the following June 30 (now).
But why that doesn't make sense to me is because at the time when he was renounced, they didn't even have his Early Bird yet -- he had only been in San Antonio one season. So how could they give up something they didn't even have?
I'm guessing the Spurs didn't renounce him, and thus now have his Early Bird.
Last edited by Kori Ellis; 07-01-2005 at 05:07 AM.
Alright, I'm going to sleep - Chump and AHF can figure it out.
Where's genghis?
Is not picking up a team option considered getting waived? I don't think so but if it is (or if Coon's CBA guide is slightly wrong), then the Spurs could be in trouble.EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception after just two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater.
Signing Scola and Horry with the MLE is much more difficult than what we've been discussing for the last couple weeks.
Another for Horry not having EB rights.Spurs Trying To Find Way To Land Scola
Wire Reports
Friday, July 01, 2005
Already the Spurs are finding challenges in dealing with free agency this summer.
According to ESPN's Marc Stein, the newly crowned World Champs are trying to determine whether their $4.9 million salary-cap exception is sufficient loot to re-sign shooting specialist, Robert Horry, and bring in one of their top foreign draft picks, Argentine power forward and Euroleague superstar Luis Scola.
Scola is under contract in the Spanish League and reportedly, if the cost to import Scola for next season is too high, the Spurs are looking into the possibility of signing Scola and Manu Ginobili's countryman Fabricio Oberto.
It certainly could be that way -- I wanted to read the actual CBA on this one, but the NBPA site took the old one down.
I'll be wrong if I'm wrong, and whottt can jock someone who can't even play in the league as his replacement.
BTW, I was under the impression that we renounced Ferry after his first season to maximize our cap space in the summer of DRob/DA/Webber -- and he was definitely signed to an EB deal after his second. So the "without waiving" clause might not have anything to do with renouncing.
I'm in Chump's corner on this, it sounds like we should have it.
And we all know the press is right more than they're wrong on the CBA at this time of yearI have seen two articles(one national and one SA) that seem to think we are going to have to pay him out of the MLE...
If the EB rights aren't there, all that needs to be done is a wink-wink to use them the following year. Ask Bruce if the Spurs make good on those. Maybe Rob gets paid after he retires. Considering that and what teams like Miami have to offer, I'm not terribly worried.
As long as the Spurs do not renounce Horry then they will have his Early Bird rights.
You guys know that if I do become a sports journalist (as opposed to working news like I think I will), I'm coming here for information that I can then get confirmed or denied, right?
That's what I think (hope) too. RoHo is only going to want to go to a top contender so that limits the pool of teams the Spurs will be competing with. I'd hope the Spurs can get this deal done with or without EB rights this year.
You get close to Joe Smith territory in that situation, though.
I'm still confused.
So Chump and AHF - you both think that we renounced Horry last year and should now be able to use Early Bird to sign him? And Marcus, you think we did not renounce him last year and as long as we don't renounce him this year, then we can use Early Bird to sign him?
Two things we need to nail down:
1. What exactly did the Spurs do with Horry last summer? Did they merely refuse to exercise a team option or did they renounce him? (and does refusal to exercise a team option amount to renunciation?)
2. If Horry was renounced, what effect does renunciation have on Early Bird rights?
Looking at Coon's explanation (provided by timvp) and approaching it from a legalistic standpoint, I'd argue that there's a significant difference between waiving a player and renouncing a player. To my knowledge, a team cannot renounce a player who is under contract -- the team can renounce its rights to a player who was under contract, but that would only terminate an exclusive right to bargain with the player (i.e., the Spurs could renounce Big Dog or Mike Wilks, since neither of those guys is under contract for next season).
A team can only waive a player who is under contract (i.e., the Spurs could waive Tony Parker, Manu, Timmy, Rasho, Beno, etc. . . ). The two mechanisms have different effects, too. When a player is waived, his salary (which requires that there be an existing contract) still counts against the waiving team's cap. When a player is renounced, the renouncing team is relieved of a cap hold. In a general sense, I don't think a team could renounce a player in the middle of the season.
I seem to recall, however, reading somewhere that a team could not negotiate with a player it had renounced. I may be confusing doctrines there, but that would seem to be a fair penalty to pay for the renunciation -- otherwise, teams would renounce every free agent, usually with the understanding that a new deal would be worked out. That makes me wonder if the Spurs actually renounced Horry last summer.
I'm still not getting why there would be .. if he's renounced, then "until next June 30" they won't have his EB. They wouldn't have had his EB before that anyway - he hadn't been here two years.
Everything I can find last year says that the Spurs denied his team option. It doesn't say they renounced him (and, for example, it does say they renounced Hedo). But timvp says that they had to have renounced him, otherwise they couldn't have gotten under the cap to get everyone signed.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
