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The standard for good perimeter defense is higher these days.
His USG% is about 60 percent higher than Green's and his percentage of assisted shots is about 10 points higher for both twos and threes. But that can also be a system thing. The Spurs have a crazy-high assist ratio.
The standard for good perimeter defense is higher these days.
Who doesn't? Danny would be massively overpaid if he got a max deal, or anything above $9 Million a year. But I just don't think it's true that Green's lack of dribbling is what separates him from the Thompsons and Iggys of the league.
dude goes off again and gets over 20 threes in finals he will get a max offer by a team
It is. But what does that have to do with the three-ball? Green and Leonard are not just expected to make life difficult for their guys anymore. They're expected to shut them the down, which was not true for Bowen.
I'm on the phone now, can't check, but IIRC Klay's unassisted 2s went up this season, probably trying to live up to his deal, I suspect. Personally, I'd like Green to get paid and keep him just on his defensive prowess alone. I think he's miles behind Klay on ball handling (and this is my perception from watching games, not hearing anybody), but so much more advanced on the footwork and defensive side. He's the ideal 3-D guy right now, and any team can use a guy like that.
I'm saying that they have way more responsibility to guard the 3 ball way more than what Bowen was expected to/do because of the fact that the game has changed. I believe that green/leonard deserve every penny they are going to get. Bowen was a great defender, but was not moving without the ball to get a 3 ball. Bowen was a horrid free throw shooter. He never had the green light to pull up for a 3 on the break. Speaking of breaks, danny green is elite at defending them.
Bowen had prime Duncan behind him on defense, and prime Parker/Ginobili so his lack of offense was not a problem.
Danny/Kwahi are far stronger than any wing combo in the history of the Spurs franchise to be able to work with 38 years old Duncan to an NBA le over LeBron. Their offensive production is what drains the other team's energy. The opposing stars forced to guard Kwahi or chase Danny all over the floor ensure by late game, they are short on stamina. Against Bowen they just had it too easy.
Last edited by hitmantb; 12-28-2014 at 11:37 PM.
Danny's main problem with the ball in his hands is not the actually dribbling; it's his decision-making in the paint. He too often passes the ball looking for someone to bail him out when he doesn't have a plan. He rarely gives the ball when the big is in good position to do something with it. That is also why the bulk of his TOs are from bad passes. Honestly, he needs more practice in PnR situations, so he can develop more chemistry with the bigs. I think everyone's perception of his offensive talent would change if he can get that part down.
But I'm not talking about offense at all. I'm saying Green and Leonard hold their guys to lower numbers than Bowen did, to the point that we come to expect them to do things that Bowen didn't do himself. It's not about the three -- it's about them just holding their guards to lower point totals and worse efficiency. Forget mindgames and getting a guy to work. Lock n Lock just get it done.
It really is his decision making with the ball, and poor precision on passing (surprisingly he's pretty good on the short bounce pass, it's all the others). He also reacts poorly to on the ball pressure in general. The latter is rarely an issue for good ball handlers, and I think that's where a lot of the perception comes from. I think he does lack certain confidence, but that's workable, that's why I rather keep him if possible.
For the record, I think the tandem of leonard and green are way better than the body of work Bowen ever did. Just to be clear.
Thompson is allowed to try much more crap than Danny because Klay can pull it off. Danny is not a guy who takes near as many bad shots, Klay does because he can. Danny takes very traditional 3s. He just has tremendous range and a quick release. Klay, Curry, Kobe, they are all over the place falling away, way more off the dribble... Very different.
As far as Thompson being worth twice Danny...
if I know.
Duncan is worth much more than he gets paid, but Duncan is about finished with his career. The number put to diff. players slalaries gets very distorted by so many mitigating factors. Kobe is worth his money in that he is entertaining, but as far as making a basketball team better? No way he is worth his price.
This is the first year where Danny has had to handle the ball this much (though that doesn't show up in his USG%). He's just now adding in the passing element of his inside game. He should get more comfortable with it in him, and he and the bigs should get better at knowing where the best passing angles are. Right now, it's pretty formulaic, the PnR version of parking in the corner for threes. Just as Danny eventually started moving around the arc for his shots, so too will he change up his passes. He may not become particularly accurate (he is pretty much a stretch-four in a two-guard's body, after all), but he'll be better at passing overall.
That doesn't make a ton of sense. Klay clearly isn't good enough to take bad shots if it makes such a big difference on his numbers. Splitter doesn't take the shots that Josh Smith does, but it's not because Smith can pull those shots off.
Don't want to go down the off-dribble rabbit hole again. But Spurs in general don't take off-dribble threes. The only one who does more than Danny is Manu, and we've seen how poorly that's turned out. Also, don't lob Thompson in with Curry and Kobe. Klay still gets assisted on the vast majority of his threes.Danny takes very traditional 3s. He just has tremendous range and a quick release. Klay, Curry, Kobe, they are all over the place falling away, way more off the dribble... Very different.
That's kind of the point, though. Players get deals they don't deserve all the time. Focusing on Danny's flaws doesn't change the fact that flawed players have broken the bank before and will do so again. Look at Josh Smith for an example. Or Tyreke Evans, who can't shoot.As far as Thompson being worth twice Danny...
if I know.
Duncan is worth much more than he gets paid, but Duncan is about finished with his career. The number put to diff. players slalaries gets very distorted by so many mitigating factors. Kobe is worth his money in that he is entertaining, but as far as making a basketball team better? No way he is worth his price.
Green also lacks speed with the ball dribbling and has very little ability to deceive with quick starts and stops or changes in direction. It's hugely obvious to me, but I will maintain he is better than last year.
This is is not something I take joy in as Danny has come thru foreign ball and the D league to become quite extraordinary for us. I really admire the guy. I want him to be better with the ball, I would love to end the year dead wrong on all that I have mentioned. I just don't think I will. I'm damn glad we have him.
Bowen and Green arent even in the same dimension when it comes to the defensive half of the court.. let's see Green purposely match up with ZBo one night and prime Kobe the next without getting Michael Finley'd
Thompson can go much more effectively to the basket than Danny. There is no comparison imo. So yeah he's gonna get caught taking more bad shots. That's clear to me. I really think of Danny as a SF and Klay a 2. They have very diff. games imo.
Mills and Neal are/was off the dribble 3 guys. Our passing game however is truly better for spot up shooters. Pop clearly emphasizes this.
Danny is not the athlete that these other guys are. They have always had the bad decision, wow factor label imo since you chose to lob them in with Green. They are guys teams think they can fix. They can't shoot because they take horrible shots they can't hit. It's pure folly for Smith to shoot 3s for example but he does. I don't want to see Danny trying what Manu does around the basket either. I see Danny as a guy who has gotten much more from his ability than Smith or Evans.
Last edited by pgardn; 12-29-2014 at 12:18 AM.
But that doesn't show up in the stats. Thompson does better at making it all the way to the basket, but Green is better at adjusting to get shots against rim-protectors. The latter takes more skill, in my opinion. I agree Danny is a forward and not a guard, but that doesn't make Klay a better ball-handler than he really is.
Mills is still a spot-up shooter. Sure, he did a few dribbles here and there. But it wasn't like he was crossing guys over and getting to his spots like Curry.Mills and Neal are/was off the dribble 3 guys. Our passing game however is truly better for spot up shooters. Pop clearly emphasizes this.
I think it's the other way: The shots they take are bad because they are outside their skill-set. Smith sucks at shooting. He just can't do it like Green can. Kobe CAN (could) shoot like Green but took/takes horrible shots.Danny is not the athlete that these other guys are. They have always had the bad decision, wow factor label imo since you chose to lob them in with Green. They are guys teams think they can fix. They can't shoot because they take horrible shots they can't hit. It's pure folly for Smith to shoot 3s for example but he does. I don't want to see Danny trying what Manu does around the basket either. I see Danny as a guy who has gotten much more from his ability than Smith or Evans.
jimmy butler is gonna get so paidddddddddddddd
Spurs could have drafted Jimmy Butler at 29th. And Jimmy went 30th
Klay is a better ball handler than Green and it allows him looks Danny does not get around the rim imo. The way to defend Green is run him off the line. Remember Miami. I think Green has started to adjust to this just like Bonner with his little hook floater.
Mills gets a great rhythm on 3s moving towards the basket off the dribble top of the key area. He looks most comfortable to me with that 3. Again my opinion.
Smith would shoot a much higher % taking shots in the paint. He can get and make shots in that area that Danny will never see just like a Smith will never hit 3s like Danny. This is how I think about it. Maybe it's a flawed way. People usually scream shooter for guys hanging out from distance, not guys that jump over you I guess.
Before reading all the way through this post I was thinking that Green is worth 4 years between $28-$30mil. He knows that he is on a good wicket with the Spurs and he will be 28 by the time he starts his next contract. It is a fair price for both parties - he and the Spurs know that he has been having a really good year and playing well (all of his averages this season are higher that his career numbers) but eventually Parker and Leonard will be back and we'll have a full contingent available. If he keeps performing at this rate when everyone is back then his price may go up, but surely it is a product of who is available personnel.
Time will tell however I think that I am on the money with $28-$30mil spread over 4 years
The way to defend Klay is to make him put the ball on the floor. , the way to defend ANY shooter is to do that. You don't think defenses wouldn't rather Curry drive? Again, though, Klay isn't a good ball-handler.
Danny gets his share of those, too. But Green also has few plays called for him to get a shot in motion and has an extremely high gravity. In order for Danny to get those shots, the Spurs would have to make a concerted effort to give them to him. Thusofar, they aren't willing to do that. Even ignoring Thompson, Atlanta runs those types of plays for Korver, and Kyle isn't any better than Green with the ball in his hands.Mills gets a great rhythm on 3s moving towards the basket off the dribble top of the key area. He looks most comfortable to me with that 3. Again my opinion.
Points in the paint aren't really what people think of when they talk about shooting. Smith isn't good an actually shooting the ball. He can slash and finish, but not when he actually has to go into a shooting motion. Branden Wright led the league in FG% last year, but no one thinks he can shoot.Smith would shoot a much higher % taking shots in the paint. He can get and make shots in that area that Danny will never see just like a Smith will never hit 3s like Danny. This is how I think about it. Maybe it's a flawed way. People usually scream shooter for guys hanging out from distance, not guys that jump over you I guess.
But Duncan and Manu will be gone next year, probably. So Danny will get his touches.
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