Here We Go Danny Green Rumor

[apalisoc_9]

I can get the average fan that doesn't watch much basketball outside of what's on National TV dismissing Danny. But Spurs fans? After watching him/Spurs for so many games and with what he's already proven?

I will never get it.

It isnt even about Danny. Its the fact that you need two elite perimter defenders to counter Golden state elite perimter offense.

It's just a lack of general understanding of how basketball is played. You can watch a 1000 spurs game and still be fat and stupid if you're watching the games the wrong way.

[Chinook]

I agree that there aren´t many at all right now, but if the Spurs get the opportunity to get Aldridge-Horford-Leonard frontcourt for the future you just have to jump on the deal and expect that replacing what DG gives you will be possible via draft, trade or free agency. It is too good of a deal not too jump to, because it gives you a piece that is very difficult to add, for a piece that, while difficult to fill in, is more teachable.
You can teach defense and shooting, but you cannot teach size.

^This guy here actually gets the real point

Horford's averaged 18/9/3/1/1 per 36 (his numbers look worse without adjusting them) over the last four years with a TS% of 56.5. He's played in 236 of the 303 possible regular-season games in that span. That's pretty bad. And considering he's going to be over 30 for the rest of his career, it'll probably at least stay this bad. He's a guy you get and think you have a solid starter next to LMA, not a guy you get and think you have a front court good enough to change the complexion of the league.

In case people are wondering, Green's per-36 numbers in that same space are 13/5/2/1/1 on a TS% of 57.7, and he's played in 284 of the possible 301 games, with a handful of the missed games being pure rest.

David West in that span was 16/8/4/1/1 per 36, TS% of 53.8 and he's played 273/301 games.

David Lee: 18/11/3/1/1 55.6 and 227/302 (picking up DNPs like a boss)

Terrence Jones: 16/9/2/1/2 55.7 173/302

Jared Sullinger: 16/11/3/1/1 49.6 232/302

Pau Gasol: 19/11/4/1/2 53.3 238/300

Mirza Teletovic: 16/7/2/1/1 54.5 218/301

Nene: 17/8/3/1/1 53.7 212/300

I can go on. That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

[cjw]

That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

I don't see how he gets a max deal with the higher cap at his age / level of production. People here called me crazy for laughing at a Green/Horford swap saying Horford is a better player. He may well be, but you can't disregard future contract / opportunity cost or the risk of him leaving in FA.

[Chinook]

I don't see how he gets a max deal with the higher cap at his age / level of production. People here called me crazy for laughing at a Green/Horford swap saying Horford is a better player. He may well be, but you can't disregard future contract / opportunity cost or the risk of him leaving in FA.

You really can't. I think Horford will get a max, since it's not god-awful like it would be if he signed a one-and-one and got a max in 2017. And I think the Spurs would have given it to him had they traded for him (and he would have accepted). But people are acting like Green's contract can be money-balled, when it's already a great deal. Horford's contract can easily be money-balled, as the free-agent list I post demonstrates.

[dabom]

Forgot blue font?

[HarlemHeat37]

This year's wing players that are shooting 35%+ from 3 and have a 1.0+ DBPM:

- Andre Iguodala
- Paul George
- Jae Crowder
- Danny Green
- Kawhi Leonard

According to several media members with inside information that spoke on their podcasts(Lowe, Thorpe, Arnovitz, Simmons, etc), the primary theme of this deadline(behind the scenes) was the need for 3&D players..

[palangi]

Not even getting into whether those guys are good enough to even sort of replace Green right now (Mayo, seriously?). Thanks for the list. The issue is that every one of those guys outside of Hairston should make more than Danny next season. So if the Spurs traded Green to get Horford, it's not like those guys are going to be signable. You're going to see players getting Carrollesque contracts left and right this summer.



THJ isn't a three-and-D player. And he's not even playing Atlanta's injury-riddled wing rotation. I was going to say that maybe he could bring the offense that the Spurs also need to find. But I just looked up his stats, and he's a crazy-inefficient chucker. I'd rather roll with Anderson or Simmons over him.



Dinwiddie is under contract next season and is a PG (and a non-defen. Hill is only a UFA because the Pacers didn't pick up his option. That's not a definitive death sentence, but it's a pretty bad one, considering Indiana still needs legit wings to put next to George. In any event, these aren't guys you replace Green with. These are guys you bring on and hope you can eventually replace Green with. That's completely different. We all want the team to get a third defensive wing. Those would be guys to bring into camp to test that out, not guys for the starting lineup.

Maybe the Spurs could have swung a Lee side trade as part of a Horford main trade. That could have given the Spurs a body to put in Danny's spot at least. But outside of that scenario, it doesn't make sense. Horford is NOT a franchise player like guys are making him out to be. He's not a dude you sell the farm on.

Keep in mind Green wasn't Green at first either. He was a D-leaguer at first. You can't say for certain weather they are good or not. Neither can I. But they all have traits to develop into a 3 and D type player. I was just showing there are options.

And yes while dinwiddie is listed as a PG he is also 6'6" and long arms with very good athleticism.

[Chinook]

Keep in mind Green wasn't Green at first either. He was a D-leaguer at first. You can't say for certain weather they are good or not. Neither can I. But they all have traits to develop into a 3 and D type player. I was just showing there are options.

And yes while dinwiddie is listed as a PG he is also 6'6" and long arms with very good athleticism.

Green was a d-leaguer, but he was also an NBA starter when he was 25. He was also a superlative d-leaguer when he was there.

Don't make a strawman out of what I said. I never stated that those guys could never become good defenders. I did state that the team can't just assume they will be and slot them into Green's role. They'd need to be in SA and prove they can get the job done first. I don't consider them options replace Green anymore than I consider Sykes an option to replace Parker.

And Dinwiddie is a good athlete, and I was intrigued by him. But he's not known as a defender, so his size is hardly a reason to put him on the list.

[DPG21920]

This year's wing players that are shooting 35%+ from 3 and have a 1.0+ DBPM:

- Andre Iguodala
- Paul George
- Jae Crowder
- Danny Green
- Kawhi Leonard

According to several media members with inside information that spoke on their podcasts(Lowe, Thorpe, Arnovitz, Simmons, etc), the primary theme of this deadline(behind the scenes) was the need for 3&D players..

Jae Crowder has come out of no where. His impact this year is grading out so well, but I don't believe he's as good as his numbers this year.

Besides the point - but you're correct. There was an arms race this last off season for the guys you mentioned. There's a reason. The truly impactful ones on both ends are not common and really are the missing piece for the majority of teams that are good/playoff teams vs contender/legit contender.

Think if Memphis or LAC or CLE had that player. Many teams emptied their wallets this off season to pry these guys away or to keep them.

[Kawhitstorm]

Horford's averaged 18/9/3/1/1 per 36 (his numbers look worse without adjusting them) over the last four years with a TS% of 56.5. He's played in 236 of the 303 possible regular-season games in that span. That's pretty bad. And considering he's going to be over 30 for the rest of his career, it'll probably at least stay this bad. He's a guy you get and think you have a solid starter next to LMA, not a guy you get and think you have a front court good enough to change the complexion of the league.

In case people are wondering, Green's per-36 numbers in that same space are 13/5/2/1/1 on a TS% of 57.7, and he's played in 284 of the possible 301 games, with a handful of the missed games being pure rest.

David West in that span was 16/8/4/1/1 per 36, TS% of 53.8 and he's played 273/301 games.

David Lee: 18/11/3/1/1 55.6 and 227/302 (picking up DNPs like a boss)

Terrence Jones: 16/9/2/1/2 55.7 173/302

Jared Sullinger: 16/11/3/1/1 49.6 232/302

Pau Gasol: 19/11/4/1/2 53.3 238/300

Mirza Teletovic: 16/7/2/1/1 54.5 218/301

Nene: 17/8/3/1/1 53.7 212/300

I can go on. That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

Damn, someone changed their tunes on Horford within a matter of 24 hrs.

[palangi]

Green was a d-leaguer, but he was also an NBA starter when he was 25. He was also a superlative d-leaguer when he was there.

Don't make a strawman out of what I said. I never stated that those guys could never become good defenders. I did state that the team can't just assume they will be and slot them into Green's role. They'd need to be in SA and prove they can get the job done first. I don't consider them options replace Green anymore than I consider Sykes an option to replace Parker.

And Dinwiddie is a good athlete, and I was intrigued by him. But he's not known as a defender, so his size is hardly a reason to put him on the list.

Listen I'm not saying we should trade green or should have. I'm just saying there are guys out there to develop if we did. So don't make strawman comments back at me.

I do love how you have pigeon holed a 23 year old though. I'm sure Detroit is a perfect place to develop the way you should.

[Chinook]

Listen I'm not saying we should trade green or should have. I'm just saying there are guys out there to develop if we did. So don't make strawman comments back at me.

I do love how you have pigeon holed a 23 year old though. I'm sure Detroit is a perfect place to develop the way you should.

I never said you wanted to trade Green. You did say that I " can't say for certain weather they are good or not," as if I was dismissing their potential. I wasn't. My whole point was that them having the potential to grow into role-players doesn't make them candidates to replace a role-player, especially one of the most important ones on the team. A three-and-D prospect is not the same thing as a three-and-D player. Green has been a great three-and-D guy for five years. In fact, his first year starting was probably his best regular season before last year.

As far as you Dinwiddie comment, I never pigeon-holed him. I simply stated that I don't consider him a three-and-D player simply because he's 6-6 and athletic. He wasn't a very good defender in college, which Green was. So he'd have to completely learn how to do it now, and I doubt it ever becomes his strength. But it COULD happen. And the SVG Pistons is a great place to develop. I don't know what that comment was about.

My whole disagreement with you is that I don't think the guys you mentioned really address my request for a list of guys that show Green is really replaceable. They aren't a plan-B to Green in case a trade happens. That doesn't make them bad players or bad prospects. But Danny is extremely proven and plays at a high level. Most of the detractors in this thread overlook that.

[Chinook]

Damn, someone changed their tunes on Horford within a matter of 24 hrs.

I've never once said that I'd trade Green for Al. I am totally in favor of trade Diaw and change for him. But I'd rather have Green and Gasol than Horford and some TBD scrub.

[palangi]

I never said you wanted to trade Green. You did say that I " can't say for certain weather they are good or not," as if I was dismissing their potential. I wasn't. My whole point was that them having the potential to grow into role-players doesn't make them candidates to replace a role-player, especially one of the most important ones on the team. A three-and-D prospect is not the same thing as a three-and-D player. Green has been a great three-and-D guy for five years. In fact, his first year starting was probably his best regular season before last year.

As far as you Dinwiddie comment, I never pigeon-holed him. I simply stated that I don't consider him a three-and-D player simply because he's 6-6 and athletic. He wasn't a very good defender in college, which Green was. So he'd have to completely learn how to do it now, and I doubt it ever becomes his strength. But it COULD happen. And the SVG Pistons is a great place to develop. I don't know what that comment was about.

My whole disagreement with you is that I don't think the guys you mentioned really address my request for a list of guys that show Green is really replaceable. They aren't a plan-B to Green in case a trade happens. That doesn't make them bad players or bad prospects. But Danny is extremely proven and plays at a high level. Most of the detractors in this thread overlook that.

You really get twisted if someone doesn't agree with you.

And i I said I couldn't say for sure either. Way to strawman again and pick and choose.

[G-Dawgg]

Horford's averaged 18/9/3/1/1 per 36 (his numbers look worse without adjusting them) over the last four years with a TS% of 56.5. He's played in 236 of the 303 possible regular-season games in that span. That's pretty bad. And considering he's going to be over 30 for the rest of his career, it'll probably at least stay this bad. He's a guy you get and think you have a solid starter next to LMA, not a guy you get and think you have a front court good enough to change the complexion of the league.

In case people are wondering, Green's per-36 numbers in that same space are 13/5/2/1/1 on a TS% of 57.7, and he's played in 284 of the possible 301 games, with a handful of the missed games being pure rest.

David West in that span was 16/8/4/1/1 per 36, TS% of 53.8 and he's played 273/301 games.

David Lee: 18/11/3/1/1 55.6 and 227/302 (picking up DNPs like a boss)

Terrence Jones: 16/9/2/1/2 55.7 173/302

Jared Sullinger: 16/11/3/1/1 49.6 232/302

Pau Gasol: 19/11/4/1/2 53.3 238/300

Mirza Teletovic: 16/7/2/1/1 54.5 218/301

Nene: 17/8/3/1/1 53.7 212/300

I can go on. That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

I realize Green's value to us, however when you have a chance to pick up an All Star for a player who is as limited as Green, you have to jump on that. Especially with the emergence of Jonathon Simmons. HORFORD WAS AN ALLSTAR THIS YEAR, while Danny Green has been playing like a D-League level scrub all year and we've still been winning without him contributing a whole lot. He's expendable... This is a pretty simple no-brainer to me.

We are definitely allowed to have differing opinions and I respect your view.

I just think that next year It'll be harder to find a quality player that plays the center position than quality wing player. Everybody knows bigs are simply a more valuable commodity than guards.

As mentioned earlier it makes no difference now.

[Chinook]

You really get twisted if someone doesn't agree with you.

And i I said I couldn't say for sure either. Way to strawman again and pick and choose.

I don't think you know what it means to strawman. I really don't.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

What false argument am I attributing to you? You responded to my post asking for a list of "3d players that would fit right in if they were on this team and system", as G-Dawgg said. Because you were the only person to give a list, I thanked you for the reply and went through why I didn't consider any of those guys viable replacements for Green.

You seemed fine with my analysis of the vets, but for some reason, you didn't like me turning down the projects based on them not being established NBA players. So you argued that I shouldn't dismiss their potential. But my argument was never about them not having the ability to become three-and-D players if given time. It was that the Spurs couldn't trade Green and then try to give those players time. They'd have to groom those guys while Green was still on the team.

That should have been it. We could have agreed to disagree or whatever. But instead you've gotten increasingly upset about my "pigeon-holing" Dinwiddie or Hill (though you haven't seemed to care about poor Solomon recently), which IS perpetuating a strawman, since I never argued against the possibility of them developing, only the idea that they aren't currently good enough three-and-D players to make them eligible for the list I asked for, nor do they have the obvious path to get there, as some players like Leonard, Green, RHJ and MKG did.

So what's the problem? I asked someone else a question, and you answered. So I debated the answer and you got upset. You make it seem like I was harassing you about this when you initiated the conversation. If you wanted to agree to disagree, that's fine. But don't fly away from here leaving a trail of butt-hurt like I've done anything other than respond to you in a reasonable manner.

[Chinook]

I realize Green's value to us, however when you have a chance to pick up an All Star for a player who is as limited as Green, you have to jump on that. Especially with the emergence of Jonathon Simmons. HORFORD WAS AN ALLSTAR THIS YEAR, while Danny Green has been playing like a D-League level scrub all year and we've still been winning without him contributing a whole lot. He's expendable... This is a pretty simple no-brainer to me.

First off, I don't care who was an All-Star. There's a really wide gap between being a legit star and being an All-Star. For example, Atlanta had four All-Stars last season, and only Millsap was truly great. Horford is a very good player, but he's not superlative. His numbers are generally not elite, and he's getting the hype of a consistent 20/10 guy. I would pretty comfortably say that Green is a better three-and-D player than Horford is a big.

We are definitely allowed to have differing opinions and I respect your view.

I just think that next year It'll be harder to find a quality player that plays the center position than quality wing player. Everybody knows bigs are simply a more valuable commodity that guards.

The list I posted to you was of guys who are free agents this off-season. It's not even exhaustive. Those were all guys who have been in Horford's ballpark the last few years, and I would be surprised if ANY of them are within 80 percent of Horford's salary next season. I don't think anyone other than Gasol will be within 60 percent. Combine that with a lack of a list of viable Green replacements, and I strongly disagree that it's harder to find a quality big this off-season than it is to find a quality wing. And that's even more true given the Spurs' gushing pipeline of front-court players and dearth of back-court prospects.

[pgardn]

It isnt even about Danny. Its the fact that you need two elite perimter defenders to counter Golden state elite perimter offense.

It's just a lack of general understanding of how basketball is played. You can watch a 1000 spurs game and still be fat and stupid if you're watching the games the wrong way.

There is no way to have elite perimeter play without rim defending.
Defenders must know they have a backbone behind them, the two go together ya dumb ass.

How effective do you think Green and KL will be if the front court is Boris and West?

We got Asians playing with Manny Pac posting about a game they know well via pickup against ants scurrying about.

[palangi]

I don't think you know what it means to strawman. I really don't.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

What false argument am I attributing to you? You responded to my post asking for a list of "3d players that would fit right in if they were on this team and system", as G-Dawgg said. Because you were the only person to give a list, I thanked you for the reply and went through why I didn't consider any of those guys viable replacements for Green.

You seemed fine with my analysis of the vets, but for some reason, you didn't like me turning down the projects based on them not being established NBA players. So you argued that I shouldn't dismiss their potential. But my argument was never about them not having the ability to become three-and-D players if given time. It was that the Spurs couldn't trade Green and then try to give those players time. They'd have to groom those guys while Green was still on the team.

That should have been it. We could have agreed to disagree or whatever. But instead you've gotten increasingly upset about my "pigeon-holing" Dinwiddie or Hill (though you haven't seemed to care about poor Solomon recently), which IS perpetuating a strawman, since I never argued against the possibility of them developing, only the idea that they aren't currently good enough three-and-D players to make them eligible for the list I asked for, nor do they have the obvious path to get there, as some players like Leonard, Green, RHJ and MKG did.

So what's the problem? I asked someone else a question, and you answered. So I debated the answer and you got upset. You make it seem like I was harassing you about this when you initiated the conversation. If you wanted to agree to disagree, that's fine. But don't fly away from here leaving a trail of butt-hurt like I've done anything other than respond to you in a reasonable manner.

You always know you got someone when they deviate from the topic to prove you wrong in something trivial.

[Chinook]

You always know you got someone when they deviate from the topic to prove you wrong in something trivial.

The topic is trading Green for Horford. I didn't want to do it because I didn't think Green was replaceable. Some people disagreed, so I asked for a list of guys who the Spurs could pick up to slide into Green's spot. You posted a list, and I disagreed with the names. Is any of that off-topic?

Really, what the is wrong with you? I have been completely reasonable this whole time, and you've just gotten increasingly agitated. Are you just trolling? Or do you actually have an issue with projecting your issues on to other people ("I'm not strawmanning, you are"; "I'm not getting offended, you are"; "I'm not making a Red Herring out of Dinwiddie, you are")?

[palangi]

The topic is trading Green for Horford. I didn't want to do it because I didn't think Green was replaceable. Some people disagreed, so I asked for a list of guys who the Spurs could pick up to slide into Green's spot. You posted a list, and I disagreed with the names. Is any of that off-topic?

Really, what the is wrong with you? I have been completely reasonable this whole time, and you've just gotten increasingly agitated. Are you just trolling? Or do you actually have an issue with projecting your issues on to other people ("I'm not strawmanning, you are"; "I'm not getting offended, you are"; "I'm not making a Red Herring out of Dinwiddie, you are")?

Not trolling at all. Just find it funny you change topic. I want down for the trade either. But I don't think green is irreplaceable. There are others out there. You said there wasn't. I think green is an overrated defender who shoots well but can't dribble or drive.

You might think your reasonable but you get pretty snippy when someone doesn't agree with you.

[ducks]

Lol at wanting green gone

[apalisoc_9]

Lol at wanting green gone

Your first good post in spurstalk forum history, congrats.