Societies Worse Off 'When They Have God On Their Side'

[ChumpDumper]

WHAT POINT ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE WITH THAT PIC MARCUS?

please explain. Thanks.

Always keeps some drugs handy -- you might be able to get a book deal out of it.

[DrRich]

So basically your argument is the old classic, "they aren't real Christians, so they don't count"?

When asked, X% of the incarcerated said they are Christians. It isn't my duty to judge whether or not they are "real" Christians or "real" Muslims or "real" atheists. I'll leave you to make assumptions and judgements to explain away the data.

Maybe the better question would have been to ask: "If they were Christians at the time they committed the crime?" Many people come to Jesus while they are in prison. The only thing that matters with regard to this thread is what was their belief status prior to committing the crime for which they are imprisoned. Doesn't seem to matter or address the question and topic of this thread if we only look at their beleifs once already in prison.

Maybe the study everyone is talking about asked this question?

[scott]

Maybe the better question would have been to ask: "If they were Christians at the time they committed the crime?" Many people come to Jesus while they are in prison. The only thing that matters with regard to this thread is what was their belief status prior to committing the crime for which they are imprisoned. Doesn't seem to matter or address the question and topic of this thread if we only look at their beleifs once already in prison.

Maybe the study everyone is talking about asked this question?

Dr. Rich, my study controlled for what we could call "in-Prison conversion" but, as a disclaimer, keep in mind that it is all subject to the responses of the incarcerated.

[Jelly]

Jesus!



This thread was great. Good job, Scott. You gave me my laughs for the morning. Maybe tomorrow Jelly will challenge Jim on teeth pulling or FWDT on Texas law.

Good .

oh, give me a break.
Nobody is too "elite" to be questioned on things they post. If you choose to accept everything Scott or anyone else says as gospel, that's your problem.
Frankly, I didn't know you were such a suck-up.

[MannyIsGod]

I think Scott has earned any respect he gets from me. But beyond that, I don't think you should challenge someone on fundemental principles of their area of expertise. It just doesn't make sense.

[SpursWoman]

To be fair, you've had several years around scott....and it's ridiculous to call her out because she didn't know him from Adam.

Do you typically take the first word of some person you never met before or know anything about? Oh, no, you don't.

[jochhejaam]

[

QUOTE=scott]So basically your argument is the old classic, "they aren't real Christians, so they don't count"?

No, you have misrepresented and oversimplified what I was saying to the point where it is not accurate.
My arguement was that instead of relying on hard incontrovertible facts or data, your study puts trust in the integrity and honesty of those who are incarcerated because of a lack of integrity and honesty. I think its reasonable to assume that any rational person would question the accuracy of such a study especially when the study seems to be directed at defaming the merits of Christianity.

[scott]

I think its reasonable to assume that any rational person would question the accuracy of such a study especially when the study seems to be directed at defaming the merits of Christianity.

Well jochhe, I must say that I have never before heard the United States Bureau of Prisons accused of trying to "defame the merits of Christianity." Is this part of some kind of liberal conspiracy to convert us all to godless heathens?

your study puts trust in the integrity and honesty of those who are incarcerated because of a lack of integrity and honesty

So you are suggesting that these prisoners feel compelled to lie about their religious affiliation? Are they hoping that a correct answer will result in their release from prison? Or are they part of the liberal conspiracy that is behind the US Bureau of Prison's attempts to defame Christianity?

I think its reasonable to assume blah blah blah blah

Well, I think its reasonable to assume that you are bent on disagreeing with anything that doesn't reconcile with your established position on the matter. As I've previously said, more power to you for having superior knowledge to the rest of civilization. Until I can achieve your powers, I will continue on my wayward and meaningless path of letting data and facts guide me to decisions.

And finally...

My arguement was that instead of relying on hard incontrovertible facts or data, your study puts trust in...

My study clearly doesn't have the "hard incontrovertible facts" of the things you believe in like... I don't know... Jesus being the son of God and saviour of Man.

[scott]

I may be wrong, but I see Scott's point to be that the predominance of Christians does not, standing alone, decrease crime or, more broadly, eliminate social problems that we see in our society. Again, I might be wrong, but it seems to me that one conclusion one might draw from Scott's study is that we won't see wide-spread reductions in crime or whatever based on broader willingness to self-identify as a Christian. Part of that, it seems, doesn't account for the idiosyncracies of individual behavior and the hypocrisy of some who claim to be Christian but act contrarily.

But if the point of one argument is that society is better served if its people are religious, and more specifically, Christian, then Scott's data would certainly seem to present a counterpoint to the idea of any such correlation.

Bingo!

[jochhejaam]

I think Scott has earned any respect he gets from me. But beyond that, I don't think you should challenge someone on fundemental principles of their area of expertise. It just doesn't make sense.

Challenging someone doesn't have to equate to disrespecting them Manny. If scott is the expert you say he is then I'm guessing he doesn't feel at all threatened by someone challenging him. I would think it's likely that he may even enjoy the challenge.

Isn't asking challenging questions a right protected by the Cons ution?

[scott]

To be fair, you've had several years around scott....and it's ridiculous to call her out because she didn't know him from Adam.

Do you typically take the first word of some person you never met before or know anything about? Oh, no, you don't.

On that note, I apologize for coming off as smug, Jelly. You appear to be a fair minded person and I made the mistake of automatically lumping you into the jochhe/Clandestino/xrayzebra/gtownspur class of posters.

Again, sorry.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]

Well jochhe, I must say that I have never before heard the United States Bureau of Prisons accused of trying to "defame the merits of Christianity." Is this part of some kind of liberal conspiracy to convert us all to godless heathens?

Well scott, the studies speak for themselves.
Let me be more pointed in my opinion of the conclusions drawn in the so-called studies. (Scott study: "the research I have done that shows Christians as over 200 times more likely to incarcerated than non-Christians.)"
That's some of the most blatant B.S. I have ever heard in my entire life and anyone with a lick of common sense would come to the same conclusion. You'd have to be a blind avowed athiest to even consider such nonsense as truth!

[jochhejaam]

Originally posted by scott: So you are suggesting that these prisoners feel compelled to lie about their religious affiliation? Are they hoping that a correct answer will result in their release from prison? Or are they part of the liberal conspiracy that is behind the US Bureau of Prison's attempts to defame Christianity?

Unfortunatley being dishonest is a part of the nature of a large portion of those incarcerated, that's why they are where they are.

Conspiracy? Nah, I'd say (again unfortunately) defaming Christianity or questioning the merits of Christianity is second nature to some individuals (that would be you scott).
You're the one who brought conspiracy into the discussion, not me. And since that's the case you address your issue.
I would label it more of a blatant disregard for Christianity. (not on the part of the Bureau, they are only guilty of conducting a skewed study)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

That a woman preaching the word of God to a man who had murdered three others, did so while providing him with methampehtamine, which is a crime?

That people claiming to be Christians don't always act like Christians?

My question is how the this girl got ahold of crystal meth while being held hostage by someone who would readily consume said meth

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, not all self-proclaimed Christians are good.

Big deal.

Oh, and Axl Rose said "Take me home."

[Marcus Bryant]

WHAT POINT ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE WITH THAT PIC MARCUS?

please explain. Thanks.

Don't stand before God after doing a bunch of ice.

Yeah.

[Jelly]

On that note, I apologize for coming off as smug, Jelly. You appear to be a fair minded person and I made the mistake of automatically lumping you into the jochhe/Clandestino/xrayzebra/gtownspur class of posters.

Again, sorry.

That's nice of you to say, Scott. Thanks for extending the olive branch
I apologize if I was a little too abrasive. (and SpursWoman is right, I didn't know you from Adam)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Okay I just read this entire thread, can't believe i let this one slip by.


Congrats, jochhe, you never cease to amaze me.

I love seeing knowledge dropped, thanks Scott.

[jochhejaam]

Originally posted by scott:Well, I think its reasonable to assume that you are bent on disagreeing with anything that doesn't reconcile with your established position on the matter.

My goal is to be rooted into the same rock-solid ground that Jesus Christ is. I certainly wouldn't aquiesce to unsubstantial biased studies that are fundamentally flawed to the point where they're practically begging to be debunked.
I've been around long enough and heard enough to be able to competently and critically examine the thoughts and ideas of others and come out changed only if substantial arguements that would undermine my own philosphy are presented. I'm not "a reed blowing in the wind"

[Cant_Be_Faded]

When was the last time jochehchejadjaaam changed his mind, or admitted he was wrong?

I'd consider myself a spurstalk political regular, and I'd say never.

[MannyIsGod]

To be fair, you've had several years around scott....and it's ridiculous to call her out because she didn't know him from Adam.

Do you typically take the first word of some person you never met before or know anything about? Oh, no, you don't.

Fair enough, but that didn't make it anyless funny.

[scott]

[QUOTE=jochhejaam]

Well scott, the studies speak for themselves.
Let me be more pointed in my opinion of the conclusions drawn in the so-called studies. (Scott study: "the research I have done that shows Christians as over 200 times more likely to incarcerated than non-Christians.)"
That's some of the most blatant B.S. I have ever heard in my entire life and anyone with a lick of common sense would come to the same conclusion. You'd have to be a blind avowed athiest to even consider such nonsense as truth!

It doesn't adhere to your existing beliefs, and you are the world's smartest man, so it is obviously BS that only a blind avowed atheist would consider. Thank you for enlightening all of us.

You are like MadeFromDust, without the constant damnation.

[SpursWoman]

You are like MadeFromDust, without the constant damnation.

THAT'S who he reminded me of....thanks!

[MannyIsGod]

It doesn't adhere to your existing beliefs, and you are the world's smartest man, so it is obviously BS that only a blind avowed atheist would consider. Thank you for enlightening all of us.

You are like MadeFromDust, without the constant damnation.

, I made that connection back in the first thread we discussed religion with Joch in.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]

It doesn't adhere to your existing beliefs, and you are the world's smartest man, so it is obviously BS that only a blind avowed atheist would consider. Thank you for enlightening all of us.

I get up in the middle of the night (3:15 here) to let the dogs out and I see this...what am I to do, ignore it?
You are overly defensive to have to throw in that sarcastic comment (worlds smartest man), do you have an inferiority complex? My study says most people that have one won't admit it.
You take great exception to having your observations challenged, if there had been even a shred of believability in it, it wouldn't have been.
Christians 200 times more likely to be incarcerated... if I didn't know better I would have thought you pulled that straight out of Grimm's Fairy Tales. Could you throw in a Howard Dean primordial scream after posting such nonsense in the future? If you're going to sashay into the world of humorous writing, do it right.