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with our luck, the spurs punishment will be the loss of a 2023 FRP
The lady has five degrees. FIVE? How is that even possible or at all desirable by anyone
with our luck, the spurs punishment will be the loss of a 2023 FRP
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but this would be a great opportunity for the NBA to give Pop a parting gift.
As long as they’re not drinking when having sex
If the league ever did that, I would hope the entire organization goes full scorched earth and makes sure that every single skeleton around the league is unearthed tbh. Such a punishment would be absolutely ing ridiculous regardless the outcome of this upcoming investigation
No jail time for Bridges. Suspension probable however.
Let that burn for the resident legal experts in this thread.
I don't think we have enough facts to really know if the Spurs are in hot water or not. Obviously, they were okay with this going public so they must think they have some ammunition.
But I would not be dismissive of Cauthen as a witness. Lots of stuff we don't know. Where were the sessions? Were they Spurs mandated? Primo had to be acting within the course and scope of his employment for the Spurs to be liable and its hard to say with limited facts if he was on the Spurs time when he saw her, especially if it involved childhood trauma. Also, it would be interesting to know who was paying for the session. She had a contract. Was she an employee or an independent contractor and what was her fee structure? Was it a flat fee to see as many players as wanted to go? Was she paid by the hour, and if so, did Primo pay for his sessions? Lots of stuff unknown.
We talk about 9 visits that exposure happened, but we do not know the situation or the pressure she was under to tolerate the behavior to keep her job. She did say that she valued the job and it was a great opportunity for her. Maybe that allowed her to give Primo multiple opportunities to change. It's not a slam dunk that she tolerated it happening 9 times so she has no room to complain. And if she did complain and then they retaliated by cutting her time and not re-signing her to a new contract, then that is a can of worms too.
But again, this is all speculation because we have almost no facts. The Buzbee press conference is what it is, same with the pleadings...you can say whatever you want, but what can you prove. If they had smoking gun evidence, this case would've settled before the press conference. Spurs may have something on Cauthen. We'll have to wait and see.
Very unlikely a criminal case against Primo goes anywhere. And absent that, I don't see how the league can get involved. It would take multiple people in Bexar County coming forward before I would worry about anything criminal happening in Texas. This is a civil litigation case as far as risk goes, but I just don't see criminal charges going anywhere given his local celebrity and the limited exposure to one person. It is a higher standard to prove criminal conduct too. They can file a complaint, but that doesn't mean the prosecutor will take up the case.
18yr old kid exposes his peepee, Spurs franchise gets destroyed? LMAO
Not totally true. They assert that he has terrible luck with gym shorts.
Thank you for this, good to see some level-headed takes on this thread............
Here is the timeline alleged in the complaint:
- December 2021: Primo exposes himself to Dr Cauthen
- January 2022: Dr Cauthen requests a meeting with Brian Wright and "makes clear" the purpose of the meeting [1]
- March 21, 2022: Meeting with Brian Wright takes place - Wright says he will develop a plan to deal with this and meet with Primo and his agent
- Sometime between March 21 and April 13, 2022: Dr Cauthen meets with Primo again and Primo again exposes himself [2]. Primo requests at least one other session with Cauthen but she avoids it
- April 13, 2022: Cauthen and Wright meet again. Cauthen expresses frustration that nothing has been done yet. Wright asks her for a recommendation on what should be done. She says she doesn't know, the team should figure it out. Wright tells her that Spurs legal will be in touch
- May 2022: Cauthen meets multiple times with Spurs Legal. Spurs legal tell her an investigation will take place, and that she should avoid contact with Primo [3].
- A week later (sometime in May): Cauthen requests an update and a copy of the investigation [4]. Spurs legal tells her that Primo will continue to participate in team activities and that Cauthen shouldn't feel uncomfortable because she has seen Primo repeatedly in the past [5], but since she is uncomfortable she should work from home. Cauthen felt this was an act of retaliation against her for raising the complaint [6]
- Sometime in June, 2022: Cauthen meets with Spurs Legal and HR again, who say they have spoken to Primo. As a result of that discussion, they suggested a facilitated conversation with Primo and Cauthen to shed light on why Primo is exposing himself [7]. Cauthen refuses.
- The following week, presumably June, 2022: Cauthen and Spurs Legal and HR meet again. The tell Cauthen that they are going to put a corrective process in place for these types of incidents [8]. They also tell her they have informed Coach Pop of this [9]. They inquire whether Cauthen has retained legal counsel [10] and tell her to avoid communication with Primo until further notice [11]
- June 16, 2022: Spurs hold a "Respect in the Workplace" training. Some staff members joke during the training. Cauthen feels this is not being taken seriously and there would be no accountability.
- July 2022: Cauthen meets with Spurs Legal again. She expresses frustration at the lack of action by the Spurs. They tell her not to travel with the team to Las Vegas [12]. They again ask if she has retained legal counsel.
- August 31: Cauthen's contract expires and it is not renewed [13]
My thoughts to the timeline above, matching with the footnotes:
[1] What does "Make Clear" the purpose mean? Did she say "I want to discuss concerning issues with Josh"? Or "I need to discuss that Josh has been showing me his penis"? This matters, because the degree to which she "made clear" the issue is important to Brian Wright's urgent response to a meeting request.
[2] Why did she meet with Primo again after the meeting with Wright? At who's urging did this meeting take place? The Spurs? Primo?
[3] Proper protocol here - Spurs were correct in telling her to avoid contact with Primo, though Wright probably should have told her this in the March meeting
[4] It would never be appropriate for the accuser to receive a copy of the investigation report. She should know this. Complaint doesn't make clear if investigation ever occurred (she should know, as she would have been interviewed by the party conducting the investigation)
[5] Huh? If true, totally bizarre thing for Spurs Legal to say. Maybe she remembers this incorrectly? Who knows. Weird.
[6] Spurs telling her she can work from home is an accommodation to her feeling uncomfortable, but she construed it as retaliation. Retaliation is a serious thing here... that I think is the bigger accusation than the idea of "not doing enough".
[7] If it went down this way, the Spurs would have been admitting that he exposed himself, which would make this request awkward and inappropriate. However, that may be the way the plaintiff attorney is wording it. I doubt the Spurs said "let's meet to see why he is exposing himself" but rather "we talked to Josh... why don't we all talk"?
[8] Spurs should have had this in place before. This is problematic.
[9] Actually not sure why any of this is relevant unless it is to later add Pop as a party to the suit if discovery shows that Pop was, in fact, informed
[10] This suggest Spurs are worried at this point
[11] This is appropriate
[12] This would seem appropriate considering there are issues with a player exposing himself to her. She construes this as retaliation
[13] Spurs do not renew. They have the right to not renew her contract for any reason. But, she views that as retaliation. If it was in retaliation, that is bad.
Yes retaliation could be a problem and in the lawsuit they can get discovery of emails. Hope that people drafting the emails on this could foresee that it could turn into a lawsuit. I've seen cases go to because of careless emails on sensitive subjects. Heck, it's the reason Gruden got fired and it is causing the Washington Football team all kinds of headaches.
Awesome work putting it together like that. Thanks.
Few added thoughts:
-It's definitely not a good look if the Spurs didn't have protocols in place to handle a situation like this. That'd be unacceptable if it's true.
-The Buzbee timeline is pretty tight ... so where could these nine flashing incidents fit in? It doesn't look like there'd be an opportunity for nine separate incidents. Maybe the "nine" is in reference to nine separate flashes total in their 2/3/4 meetings.
-It's really strange that both Wright and the Spurs lawyers responded to her account by saying she should talk to Primo again. I could understand Wright doing that by mistake but there must have been some sort of misunderstanding for the lawyers to also recommend that, right?
-I know that it's common for psychologists to refer their patients to another mental health professional if something like this happens -- usually after the first occurrence. Did the Spurs stop her from referring Primo elsewhere? Did she not refer him elsewhere?
All around it's just a sad situation, tbh. Hopefully everyone involved finds peace.
To the Lakers
In light of this from January 2022. Wtf were the spurs thinking in the direction they took in trading and letting go of players since.
Surely they didnt think the problem would just cure it self. A serial flasher and the spurs thought at first this is just a HR situation. Lol
No, it doesn’t matter. She was a professional hired by the Spurs to, among other things, keep them informed about their players. Her mere indication that it was important should have been enough to get their prompt attention.
[2] Why did she meet with Primo again after the meeting with Wright? …
Because Wright said he’d deal with it. She then supposed he had, of course. It turned out, not so, however.
… At who's urging did this meeting take place? ,,,
Urging?? The Spurs must have arranged another Primo appointment with her. They were paying.
[4] It would never be appropriate for the accuser to receive a copy of the investigation report. …
She was not an “accuser.” She was a professional hired by the Spurs to work with their players. She naturally took it that the investigation was relevant to her work.
I remember making a post about how we could turn into the Sacramento Kings and it wouldn’t take very long for it to happen. Pop leaves and we have no replacement. We have no good assistant coaches anymore. No star player. Our ownership is bad and my biggest argument was Wright just isn’t a good GM. I got a lot of push back here. BUT
Its not looking good for our organization and we are looking more and more like we are heading in a downward spiral. Wright has to go. His acknowledgment of Primos concerns is the easiest thing to fact check. There’s zero chance Buzbee includes that in his lawsuit if he couldn’t verify a meeting with his client. Wright knew. Period. Hopefully him gone and a couple million dollars solves the issue and we just nip it in the bud. Seriously don’t let Brian Wright be the reason why this is dragged on and putting our franchise more and more into the mud. Just drop him and pay her off
Thanks for the breakdown.
The timeline is interesting. From January to March 21, she allegedly couldn't get a hold of Brian Wright. Was the "exposure" so minor to her that she didn't think she should escalate the issue and talk to someone else? Pop? RC? HR? She was still with the team at that point. I would think that she could tell someone.
Rumors were that he trapped her in office and whipped it out. If that's the case, then she probably should have refused to see him after the first exposure. But we don't know the details. The exposure could be (as his attorney indicated) that he was wearing loose shorts with no underwear while laying on the couch. (I'm not saying I believe that.) But I don't think there could be 9 serious incidents of exposure in this timeline. She would've bowed out and referred him elsewhere before it got to 9.
The case probably hinges on whether the Vegas and Minny "exposures" with other women actually occurred.
Miles Bridges just got probation pleading no contest on felony domestic violence
I don't think Primo has to worry about any jail if all he did was hang out his shorts a little or pitch a tent
To me it’s all about what she do ented and how the Spurs responded. The Spurs response is where we discover if there is a coverup. Feels like the cliche “coverup is worse than the crime” situation. In that sense it’s two separate issues:
1. Whipped it out vs hanging brains.
2. Who on the Spurs knew and how did they respond.
Unless the Spurs can prove #1, they are sorta stuck with how they did or did not respond.
felony probably kills his visa however
I have a feeling that it's going to be Primo's defense more than that of the Spurs that's going to blow this thing open a bit. We don't know if it's nine or two sessions, and if most of them involved flashing or just a few of them. We got the sense that she had met with Primo before the first incident, as it was described before as "almost the first session". If that can be carried a bit farther, it could be that the psychologist and Primo used to meet frequently. So nine separate visits might actually be a thing. If Primo's story has real truth in it, it could be the case that she either never let on that there was anything wrong or that the exposures happened as a result of the subject matter they spoke about. Part of the HIPAA restraint is likely leaving ambiguity there. It's possible those incidents were somehow in a context that led Primo believe they were appropriate. It's also possible Primo admitted showing his willy to women before. If she knew he was doing that, it could either explain why she feels the Spurs are responsible for other incidents or where Primo might feel like this idea came from in the first place. Not saying I believe Primo is innocent -- he's been giving off major creeper vibes since this whole thing started -- but I do think his defense is going to try to hit at holes in the story that her team didn't do a very great job at shoring up. People are mainly only looking at this issue in terms of gender dynamics. But there are other lenses to view this interaction. One of the main methods of attack I'm assuming his defense will have is to make us consider some of those other lenses.
It matters quite a bit. If the message was "I want to talk to you about my experience with Primo" without any more context, it would be natural for Wright to have to postpone this meeting. At the time he was a prospect spending time between the G-league and some occasional minutes with the big club. Wright could have interpreted this request as some update on blockers to his performance, which is not really that urgent to the GM. On the other hand, if she said "I need to urgently speak to you about some troubling issues with Josh" - then that is another matter.
If she felt assaulted, then being told "it will be dealt with" isn't really a good assurance before heading back into another meeting. She certainly felt compelled to avoid the meeting after that, so why didn't she for this meeting? This is important context because it lends insight as to the discussion she had with Wright. Was she assured that it was handled and wouldn't happen again? Was her mindset perhaps that maybe she mischaracterized the first flashing, but after the next time there was no mistaking it? These things matter in investigations/cases like these.Because Wright said he’d deal with it. She then supposed he had, of course. It turned out, not so, however.
"The Spurs must have...." no they mustn't. They might have. The complaint states that the next meeting that she avoided was at the request of Primo. Was this meeting also at his request? This matters, because if someone of knowledge of the incident scheduled the meeting... that is very bad. But maybe the Spurs did schedule it, but someone who doesn't know anything about this confidential matter set it up... all these things matter.Urging?? The Spurs must have arranged another Primo appointment with her. They were paying.
She is an accuser. She may feel that the investigation was relevant to her work... but she was a party to the investigation, which means she doesn't get a copy. Period.She was not an “accuser.” She was a professional hired by the Spurs to work with their players. She naturally took it that the investigation was relevant to her work.
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