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Yeah he's done the same thing to Rasho as well.
And AJ had his and the flaws AJ had were 3 times as much as the ones David had.
Yeah he's done the same thing to Rasho as well.
DRob's weakness was AJ's strength.
Because 13 is retired...James Silas.
Do you have a link to that pic?
HOF and retired numbers are weak in the NBA. Wasn't it the Suns owner that got into the HOF this year. What's up with that?
So using the preestablished standard of he hung aroung a long time, worked hard, put up ok numbers, helped get a le along the way, then sure, AJ and Sean.
SA's first NBA leSo using the preestablished standard of he hung aroung a long time, worked hard, put up ok numbers, helped get a le along the way, then sure, AJ and Sean.
AJ hit the winning shot
Remember the memorial day miracle?
I know exactly where you're going with this, Marcus, and I don't think this thread is necesarily the place to start comparing DRob to Michael Jordan.First and foremost, I am a Spurs fan. David Robinson had his flaws. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit them since there has only been one man ever who was perfect, and it wasn't DRob.-Marcus Bryant
We're talking about SPURS players here man, stick with the program.
[QUOTE]Because 13 is retired...James Silas.
Do you have a link to that pic?
No I don't have a link to that pic but I do remember seeing it. However It did slip my mind that 13 was in fact retired. But I am glad that he wears #20 because that was my number when I played in highschool.
Are you sure he wasn't going to say Jesus?
Umm, ya think?
Avery Johnson and Sean Elliott.
Of course DRob had his flaws, and nobody is suggesting that his game was perfect. He never developed a go-to move, and he tended to appear aloof at times, especially early on. Despite that, he is still the best player to wear a Spurs uniform and was able to make the Spurs contenders despite having poor to average supporting casts.
Just about every "big game player" had at least one other star (and many times, future Hall of Famer) on his team. Jordan had Pippen (Hall of Famer, regarded by many as the second-best player in the game during his prime), plus Horace Grant (All-Star) and a host of other role players that were great at what they did (e.g., Kerr and Hodges shooting threes). Hakeem had Otis Thorpe (All-Star) one year and Clyde Drexler (Hall of Famer) the next, plus a future All-Star in Cassell plus very formidable role players (Horry, Maxwell, etc.). Shaq had Kobe (Hall of Famer), plus Fisher, Horry, etc. Magic had Kareem and Worthy, both Hall of Famers, plus Cooper and others. Bird had Parish and McHale, both Hall of Famers, plus Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, etc. David Robinson had Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman, plus other journeymen role players (often waived by their previous teams) who seemed to be unable to hit shots in the playoffs (Del Negro comes to mind). Elliott was a two-time All-Star whose game was inconsistent during the playoffs, and Rodman made the All-Star team two times at the most (neither of which occurred during his Spurs years) and couldn't be counted on (remember the ejections, flagrant fouls, and refusal to re-enter the game?). Yes, we all love AJ, and he was a warrior, but he was still no better than a 13 ppg/8 apg player during his best season. Vinny Del Negro wouldn't have started at shooting guard for most other teams in the league, and Charles Smith was injury-prone and couldn't be counted on when he was here. Anyone who is still confused needs to reread this paragraph until it makes sense.
Acting like DRob had a supporting cast anywhere close to the other greats of the 80's and 90's is ridiculous and you know it. In fact, David did much more than many of his contemporaries despite having less talent around him. Unfortunately for DRob, he was outplayed by Hakeem one year and every other accompishment in the postseason was nullified - even by some Spurs fans.
If you look back, DRob did play well in the postseason. I recall a couple of occasions where he was leading the playoffs in scoring - against Barkley and the Suns, I believe - before being eliminated. Yes, big game Charles, who has zero rings despite playing alongside much better players than DRob ever did (KJ, Majerle, Ceballos, etc. in Phoenix, and Hakeem and Drexler in Houston). DRob would've won a le with that kind of talent around him. Yet to you, Marcus, Sir Charles was much more of a "gamer" than DRob.
What about Karl Malone, another "warrior?" He had Stockton, one of the best PG's ever and sure Hall of Famer on his team. He also had Hornacek (All-Star) and some capable role players like Bryon Russell. He didn't win a le either. What gives? Were Barkley and Malone not big game players after all, or were their supporting casts just not good enough?
Answers, please. And let's leave DRob's character out of this, because my argument is not based on the person he is off the court and yours shouldn't be either.
if we are going to retire aj's number....
the a-train's 53 needs to be retired first.
I agree with everything you said. However, you can't tell me that AJ didn't have a major role in leading the Spurs to their first championship. On the court he played well in the playoffs and off the court he was the unquestioned leader who was in charge of keeping everyone focused on the task at hand, Robinson included.Of course DRob had his flaws, and nobody is suggesting that his game was perfect. He never developed a go-to move, and he tended to appear aloof at times, especially early on. Despite that, he is still the best player to wear a Spurs uniform and was able to make the Spurs contenders despite having poor to average supporting casts.
Just about every "big game player" had at least one other star (and many times, future Hall of Famer) on his team. Jordan had Pippen (Hall of Famer, regarded by many as the second-best player in the game during his prime), plus Horace Grant (All-Star) and a host of other role players that were great at what they did (e.g., Kerr and Hodges shooting threes). Hakeem had Otis Thorpe (All-Star) one year and Clyde Drexler (Hall of Famer) the next, plus a future All-Star in Cassell plus very formidable role players (Horry, Maxwell, etc.). Shaq had Kobe (Hall of Famer), plus Fisher, Horry, etc. Magic had Kareem and Worthy, both Hall of Famers, plus Cooper and others. Bird had Parish and McHale, both Hall of Famers, plus Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, etc. David Robinson had Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman, plus other journeymen role players (often waived by their previous teams) who seemed to be unable to hit shots in the playoffs (Del Negro comes to mind). Elliott was a two-time All-Star whose game was inconsistent during the playoffs, and Rodman made the All-Star team two times at the most (neither of which occurred during his Spurs years) and couldn't be counted on (remember the ejections, flagrant fouls, and refusal to re-enter the game?). Yes, we all love AJ, and he was a warrior, but he was still no better than a 13 ppg/8 apg player during his best season. Vinny Del Negro wouldn't have started at shooting guard for most other teams in the league, and Charles Smith was injury-prone and couldn't be counted on when he was here. Anyone who is still confused needs to reread this paragraph until it makes sense.
Acting like DRob had a supporting cast anywhere close to the other greats of the 80's and 90's is ridiculous and you know it. In fact, David did much more than many of his contemporaries despite having less talent around him. Unfortunately for DRob, he was outplayed by Hakeem one year and every other accompishment in the postseason was nullified - even by some Spurs fans.
If you look back, DRob did play well in the postseason. I recall a couple of occasions where he was leading the playoffs in scoring - against Barkley and the Suns, I believe - before being eliminated. Yes, big game Charles, who has zero rings despite playing alongside much better players than DRob ever did (KJ, Majerle, Ceballos, etc. in Phoenix, and Hakeem and Drexler in Houston). DRob would've won a le with that kind of talent around him. Yet to you, Marcus, Sir Charles was much more of a "gamer" than DRob.
What about Karl Malone, another "warrior?" He had Stockton, one of the best PG's ever and sure Hall of Famer on his team. He also had Hornacek (All-Star) and some capable role players like Bryon Russell. He didn't win a le either. What gives? Were Barkley and Malone not big game players after all, or were their supporting casts just not good enough?
Answers, please. And let's leave DRob's character out of this, because my argument is not based on the person he is off the court and yours shouldn't be either.
That isn't debatable either.
Wow, the forum novelist is back.
David Robinson had talent to play with when he was in San Antonio. I guess I imagined it when he played with Terry mings, Sean Elliott, Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Dale Ellis, Dennis Rodman, Chuck Person, etc...He did not get the job done. He played on teams with enough talent to win 59 and 62 games a season. Avery Johnson was the heart, soul, and leader of those Spurs teams, not David. I mean this was rather clear to anyone who was a Spurs fan throughout the 1990s and is certainly not a secret. This, as well as David's inability to develop a reliable go-to offensive move, was what kept him back from being the playoff hoss he should have been.
Let me get this straight. You're essentially reducing your evaluation of David's playoff performances to his first three years in the league?!? That is when he played with most of the guys you mentioned, although he never had all of them on the team at the same time.David Robinson had talent to play with when he was in San Antonio. I guess I imagined it when he played with Terry mings, Sean Elliott, Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Dale Ellis, Dennis Rodman, Chuck Person, etc...He did not get the job done. He played on teams with enough talent to win 59 and 62 games a season. Avery Johnson was the heart, soul, and leader of those Spurs teams, not David. I mean this was rather clear to anyone who was a Spurs fan throughout the 1990s and is certainly not a secret. This, as well as David's inability to develop a reliable go-to offensive move, was what kept him back from being the playoff hoss he should have been.
mings's biggest years were 89-90, 90-91, and 91-92, David's first three years in the league. After that he was injured, his scoring average dropped over 10 points per game and his rebounding 4 boards per game, and he was never the same.
David played with Strickland for three seasons, David's first three in the league. Rod put up numbers similar to AJ's. I think Rod had more raw talent than AJ, but didn't seem to have the desire AJ possessed. One can't help but wonder what might've been had Strickland not thrown that errant pass in Game 7 of the 1990 NBA Playoffs.
Willie Anderson's best year as a Spur was in 88-89, the year before David's rookie year. Willie had several good seasons with us, averaging low to mid teens in scoring. Not a bad player but not exceptional either.
Dale Ellis was a Spur for two seasons, 92-93 and 93-94, and gave us about 15 a game. I liked Dale's game. He wasn't afraid to shoot and he could get really hot from the field.
Rodman played for the Spurs for two seasons, 93-94 and 94-95. He pulled down 17 rebounds per game, played solid low-post defense, and provided virtually no offense. While he wasn't a big scorer, we needed his defense, rebounding, and energy in the postseason and he frequently let us down.
Chuck Person played for us from 94-95 through 97-98. He averaged 11 points per game a couple of times and was usually either red hot or ice cold coming off of the bench. I saw him win games for us and I saw him shoot us right out of close contests.
It is pretty funny that your best comeback consisted of mings, Elliott, Anderson, and Strickland when the "greats" had at least one and at times several Hall of Famers as their supporting cast. Elliott, mings, and Strickland hardly compares to Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, etc., or Parrish, McHale, Johnson, etc., or even Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, etc. That should be blatantly obvious to even the most casual NBA fan.
The point is that DRob simply didn't have the supporting casts necessary to win it all. He had some good players when he first came into the league, but it would've taken heroic performances by DRob for us to have won during any of those years. Based on the supporting casts you mentioned, those heroic efforts would've had to come in David's rookie year, second year, or possibly third year in the league. That's not realistic to have expected that from him at that point, especially given the fact that he started playing organized basketball so late in life.
Give him those guys when he was in his prime and it might've been a fair fight.
In what seasons did the Spurs win 62 and 59 games? Certainly wasn't during Robinson's first 3 seasons in the league. Respectively those were the first and fourth (third highest for a full 82 game NBA regular season) highest regular season winning percentages a Spurs team has ever enjoyed and those were the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons (DRob's 6th and 7th NBA seasons). If the Spurs were that good you'd think they could've turned that into some real playoff success. And shockingly some of the players I listed were with the Spurs past DRob's first 3 seasons in the NBA. Barkley had some talent to play with in Phoenix in 1992-93 but it certainly wasn't overwhelming.
Lest I forget the 1993-94 season when both Olajuwon and Ewing carried crap rosters to the NBA Finals. DRob just did not have that ability/desire/passion to take his game to the next level in the playoffs.
They were playing in 1994-95? 1995-96?Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, etc., or Parrish, McHale, Johnson
Stop making excuses. DRob was not perfect.
Last edited by Marcus Bryant; 10-06-2004 at 11:08 PM.
Time for a refresher...
http://www.nba.com/spurs/history/spu...ArticleList#18
Next up is the best regular season that the Spurs have ever had.1993-94: King David Can't Take Spurs To The Promised Land
(No, I didn't come up with that le - MB)
In the offseason the Spurs traded Sean Elliott to the Detroit Pistons in a deal that brought Dennis Rodman to San Antonio. Rodman, sporting a variety of hair colors throughout the year, changed the entire look of the Spurs in 1993-94. A team that had finished last in the NBA in offensive rebounding percentage the previous season vaulted to first with Rodman aboard. The iconoclastic rebounder helped San Antonio craft the league's second-best defense, allowing only 94.8 points per game.
However, Rodman's most noticeable impact was on David Robinson, who had less pressure to rebound and more opportunities to score. Doing more of his work on the perimeter, Robinson led the NBA in scoring with 29.8 points per game. On the last day of the season he wrested the scoring crown from Shaquille O'Neal by pouring in 71 points against the Los Angeles Clippers, becoming only the fourth player in NBA history to score 70 points in a game. He had also registered the fourth quadruple-double in NBA annals with 34 points, 10 rebounds, 10 assists, and 10 blocks against Detroit on February 17. At season's end, he was runner-up to Hakeem Olajuwon for the NBA MVP Award.
Rodman (17.3 rpg) and Robinson became the first teammates to lead the NBA in both scoring and rebounding in the same season. The Spurs finished 55-17, second to the Houston Rockets in the Midwest Division. But after going 3-7 in their final 10 games, they entered a first-round playoff series against the Utah Jazz with little momentum. Utah won in four games, as the Spurs managed only 88.0 points per contest. A few weeks later Lucas left San Antonio to become head coach and general manager of the Philadelphia 76ers.
http://www.nba.com/spurs/history/spu...ArticleList#19
Lastly (and most appropriately en led):1994-95: Robinson & Co. Surge To 62-Win Season
The 1994-95 campaign proved to be the best ever for the Spurs, although it ended a bit prematurely for San Antonio fans. The team posted a 62-20 record, tops in the NBA and the best in franchise history. The Spurs' previous best record was 56-26 in 1989-90, David Robinson's rookie season.
The year didn't begin with much promise. With Dennis Rodman suspended, San Antonio stumbled out to a 7-9 record. But the Spurs went 55-11 the rest of the way, logging a 15-game winning streak during one stretch. They ended the regular season with a 21-2 record in their final 23 games. The team went 11-2 in February, 14-2 in March, and 11-2 in April to win the Midwest Division.
Several players had career seasons. Robinson won the NBA Most Valuable Player Award for a season in which he was third in the league in scoring (27.6 ppg), seventh in rebounding (10.8 rpg), and fourth in blocked shots (3.23 per game). He was also named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team. Dynamic point guard Avery Johnson rejoined the team after a year with the Golden State Warriors and averaged 13.4 points and 8.2 assists. He increased his scoring average for the seventh consecutive season, and his .519 field-goal percentage ranked third among NBA guards.
Sean Elliott, reacquired from the Detroit Pistons in a trade for draft pick Bill Curley, lit up the scoring charts with an average of 18.1 points per game and drilled 136 of 333 three-pointers for a .408 percentage (18th in the NBA). Rodman's look remained unique and his rebounding unmatched. Despite missing 33 games, he led the league in rebounding for the fourth consecutive season (16.8 rpg) and was named to the All-NBA Third Team and the NBA All-Defensive First Team. Vinny Del Negro assumed the starting off guard job and averaged 12.5 points on .486 shooting from the field. Chuck Person joined the team and knocked down 172 three-pointers as a hired gun off the bench.
In the playoffs, the Spurs swept the Denver Nuggets in the first round, got past the Los Angeles Lakers in six games in the conference semifinals, and then fell in six games to the Houston Rockets in the conference finals.
http://www.nba.com/spurs/history/spu...ArticleList#20
1995-96: Spurs Can't Shake Playoff Blues
Prior to the 1995-96 season, the Spurs traded Dennis Rodman to the Chicago Bulls in exchange for center Will Perdue. While Rodman's talents ultimately led the Bulls back to the NBA championship, the hope was that the trade would be addition by subtraction. Rodman, though an unparalleled rebounder, proved distracting to the Spurs in their quest for a le.
The move paid off in the regular season, where the Spurs didn't miss a beat. They completed the season 59-23 to capture their second straight Midwest Division le, only three games off their record-setting pace of the previous year. Team chemistry was remarkable, and according to coach Bob Hill "the best I've ever been around."
The talent was equally extraordinary. Sean Elliott and David Robinson represented the West at the All-Star Game, and the backcourt of Vinny Del Negro and Avery Johnson posted the league's best assist to turnover ratio. They shored up their front line with the acquisition of Charles Smith and Monty Williams from New York in February. In March, they posted a perfect 16-0 record, tying them with the 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers for the best month in NBA history.
But come playoff time, the Spurs faced the same question. Could they win in the postseason? They proved to Phoenix that the answer was yes, winning three games to one in the first round best-of-five series. In the second round, the Spurs battled the Utah Jazz to six games, but as in 1994, the Jazz toppled the Spurs, handing San Antonio's hope of that still elusive trip to the Finals.
That is from the Spurs' official history which is available on their website.
Last edited by Marcus Bryant; 10-06-2004 at 11:01 PM.
Impressive cut and paste skills, Marcus. Anything else?
Perhaps you missed:
In what seasons did the Spurs win 62 and 59 games? Certainly wasn't during Robinson's first 3 seasons in the league. Respectively those were the first and fourth (third highest for a full 82 game NBA regular season) highest regular season winning percentages a Spurs team has ever enjoyed and those were the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons (DRob's 6th and 7th NBA seasons). If the Spurs were that good you'd think they could've turned that into some real playoff success. And shockingly some of the players I listed were with the Spurs past DRob's first 3 seasons in the NBA. Barkley had some talent to play with in Phoenix in 1992-93 but it certainly wasn't overwhelming.
Lest I forget the 1993-94 season when both Olajuwon and Ewing carried crap rosters to the NBA Finals. DRob just did not have that ability/desire/passion to take his game to the next level in the playoffs.
They were playing in 1994-95? 1995-96?Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, etc., or Parrish, McHale, Johnson
Stop making excuses. DRob was not perfect.
Also, judging by your namby pamby view of Saint David it was necessary to remind you of a little bit of Spurs history. Seeking to minimize the time I spent responding to your bull , I opted to cut and paste some quality material which illustrates the stupidity of your claims.
Now write me another novel about how Saint David could do no wrong and was a playoff hoss.
Last edited by Marcus Bryant; 10-08-2004 at 10:12 AM.
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