Upon further review:

[LEONARD]

BS, how many times have you seen that enforced throughout the season? Regardless of this, every NBA fan knows that even if you get set and have even just the back of your heel on the restricted line the ref will call it a block. And TD had half his ing body in the ristricted area.

Look, I'm a huge Spurs fan too, but we gotta stop crying like ing babies and play!!

THANK YOU!!

I'd still like for picnroll to explain to me where I'm wrong regarding the rule, regardless of whether it's ever enforced or not...

[T Park]

@ mavs fan.

if it was the other way around, whoo boy.....


BTW, Spurs fans, go look up the last game Joey Crawford reffed, and how many FT's Bonzi Wells shot.


Coincidence?

[dbreiden83080]

You are obviously just pissed right now.

1. With as much contact as Bowen has with Dirk, you can bet the refs will let Dirk have some also. Listen to yourself about contact between Dirk and Bowen... how ironic. BTW... Duncan's arms weren't straight up in the air. That was a foul, just like it would be on our big men.
2. There was contact on this play. Barry was nowhere near him... what tape are you watching???? Realistically tho, this call could have gone either way.
3. Not clear cut. Could've been called either way as a trip or just TP tripping on defender's foot.
4. Duncan tried his best to get out of the way. But there was contact, Duncan was in the restricted area, and yes... Dirk did lose his balance and completely lose the ball after rolling his ankle. Another difficult call.

Now, yall did get the Howard's clean block on Manu call. Things aren't as slanted as you think they are.

My problem is the inconsistancy of the calls, at times they would let them play and others all the tik tac calls were going against the Spurs. In the 4th when Duncan went up for a O bound he got hammered twice and he still put it back in and there was no call. However Dirk gets 2 calls on Duncan with very little contact at all that get him out of the game. He is a ing 2 time MVP why is he getting no respect from the officials, MJ could have guys in headlocks and they never called it.

[picnroll]

BS, how many times have you seen that enforced throughout the season? Regardless of this, every NBA fan knows that even if you get set and have even just the back of your heel on the restricted line the ref will call it a block. And TD had half his ing body in the ristricted area.

Look, I'm a huge Spurs fan too, but we gotta stop crying like ing babies and play!!

They blow there share of calls that way but ....

usually that blocking foul call is made when the defenders moves into the path even slightly or his arms are not vertical and he makes contact with the offensive players arm or he uses an arm to push the offensive player. Duncan did none of these.

If you think they always call that foul how many times have you seen Parker going inot a post defender this year on a drive with no blocking call made. Piling into a post defender doesn't or at least shouldn't guarantee you a blocking foul. Saying they always make that call is BS, particularly in that situation on a player of Duncan's status with five fouls. The ref ed it plain and simple.

[LEONARD]

They blow there share of calls that way but ....

usually that blocking foul call is made when the defenders moves into the path even slightly or his arms are not vertical and he makes contact with the offensive players arm or he uses an arm to push the offensive player. Duncan did none of these.

If you think they always call that foul how many times have you seen Parker going inot a post defender this year on a drive with no blocking call made. Piling into a post defender doesn't or at least shouldn't guarantee you a blocking foul. Saying they always make that call is BS, particularly in that situation on a player of Duncan's status with five fouls. The ref ed it plain and simple.

Foreget all that and tell my why I'm wrong based on the rule as it's written...

Did Dirk receive the ball inside or outside of the lower defensive box???

[picnroll]

If he received the ball outside the box and ran into Duncan who was his primary defender and Duncan didn't move, hit Dirks arm, etc. the call should be a charge on Dirk. Just because a defender is inside the box doesn't mean you get free reign to run him over and get the call on top of it. That's why you see guys slide to the side on drives.

[LEONARD]

If he received the ball outside the box and ran into Duncan who was his primary defender and Duncan didn't move, hit Dirks arm, etc. the call should be a charge on Dirk. Just because a defender is inside the box doesn't mean you get free reign to run him over and get the call on top of it. That's why you see guys slide to the side on drives.

Don't you have that backwards??

The "restricted area" for this purpose is the area bounded by an arc with a 4-foot radius measured from the middle of the basket

EXCEPTION: Any player may be legally positioned within the "restricted area" if the offensive player receives the ball within the Lower Defensive Box.

The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play, does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The offi-cials must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each situation separately.

If Dirk didn't receive the ball WITHIN the lower defensive box, then the defensive player can't be legally positioned within the restricted area...

[samikeyp]

I hate when Spurs fans whine about people that have legit gripes about the officiating.

"the refs cost us the game" is not a legit gripe.

[DubMcDub]

"the refs cost us the game" is not a legit gripe.

They're going to yell at you for stifling their ranting and raving with your logic and reason.

[Dingle Barry]

Parker was tripped by Howard. I have watched it in slow motion many times and Howard's leg extends as if to purposefully trip Parker. If you don't see the same thing, well, kill yourself.

Even if it was an accident, it is still called. Especially right after the phantom Barry foul on GermaPuss.

[Das Texan]

ya we got jobbed by the refs.


big deal.


both teams gave the effort out there.

[MannyIsGod]

ing Spurs fans.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Si
Se
Puede


Si
Se
Puede


Si
Se
Puede

[picnroll]

Let's try again

An offensive foul should never be called if the contact is with a secondary defensive player who has established a defensive position within a designated "restricted area" near the basket for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul.

The "restricted area" for this purpose is the area bounded by an arc with a 4-foot radius measured from the middle of the basket.

EXCEPTION: Any player may be legally positioned within the "restricted area" if the offensive player receives the ball within the Lower Defensive Box.

The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play, does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The officials must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each situation separately.



Notice the words secondary defensive player and the word any player? What does that tell you? Think about it. How easy would it be to just run into a player in the restricted area, jack up a shot and get the foul. Nevermind don't think about it, just watch Dirk.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Upon further review:

I just watched the last 5 mins of game 3, and came to the conclusion that the Spurs did get jobbed bigtime. I know in the heat of the moment, we all think calls are bad, but after having some time to calm down, and sit and watch the last 5 mins, I can say without a doubt that the refs are responsible for the Spurs losing this game.

Here are the calls in question:

1. On TD's 5th foul, Dirk misses shot, he goes up and grabs O rebound, going over the back of Bowen in the process, knocking him across the lane. When Dirk goes back up to shoot, TD gets called for his 5th foul. TD barely makes contact, if at all. Dirk made 2 FTs

Result - 2 pts and TD getting 5th foul


2. Dirk dribbles the ball off his foot, in top of the key area, then tries to retrieve the ball, diving out of bounds, Barry is called for tripping, and the replay showed that Brent was nowhere near Dirk, and Dirk just fell out of bounds. Dirk hits 2 FTs

Result: -2 pts

3. 2:54 left, Spurs up 2 pts. Tony clearly gets pushed in the back cutting to the basket and knocked down just as TD passes the ball, and the ball goes out of bounds, resulting in anothet turnover for SA.

Result: Loss of possession, and possible basket and points.

4. TD gets 6th foul after Dirk steps on TD's ankle and loses balance. Again, there is very little contact by TD and Dirk was just out of control, and flailing after his loss of balance.

Result : -2pts and Spurs lose TD for remaining of game which is huge.

These four HORRIBLE calls, cost the Spurs 6 pts and the services of TD in crunch time. In a one point game, these bad calls determined the result of the game, no doubt about it.

Cuban's threats paid off again, and it shows that the refs are affraid of Cuban and his tapes that he makes of each game, which shows all the poor calls. Well, I think Peter Holt or Pop need to send the film of game 3 to Stern and the Spurs need to get some decent calls now. Turn about is fair play.

I completely agree with you.

I would also like to make the point that a lot of us who are saying that we believe the refs cost us game 3 do not say that about most Spurs losses. For instance, I don't think that the refs cost us game 2. I do think that game 2 was badly officiated, but that's not why we lost. Very infrequently do I believe that officials have a decisive impact upon a Spurs game. In Game 3, this was too obvious to ignore. TD sitting on the bench is obviously an unbelievable important consequence. Jcs did a good job of listing the bad calls.


In general, in the playoffs, a good sign that a game was badly officiated is if (a) a perimeter jumpshooting team shoots 50 fts (b) if the team that leads the league in points in the paint shoots 20 fewer fts than a perimeter jumpshooting team (c) there are 80 fts shot in a game.

[samikeyp]

ing Spurs fans.

of which you are one.

Unless you mean just the ones that are dropping the refs card...then I agree with you.

[LEONARD]

Notice the words secondary defensive player and the word any player? What does that tell you? Think about it. How easy would it be to just run into a player in the restricted area, jack up a shot and get the foul. Nevermind don't think about it, just watch Dirk.

Mmmkay...probably not worth continuing this...

[Mavs_man_41]

[IMG]whiner[/IMG]

[LEONARD]

In general, in the playoffs, a good sign that a game was badly officiated is if (a) a perimeter jumpshooting team shoots 50 fts (b) if the team that leads the league in points in the paint shoots 20 fewer fts than a perimeter jumpshooting team (c) there are 80 fts shot in a game.

a) The Mavs may be considered a "jumpshooting team" by most, but they drove to the basket MUCH more than the Spurs did. You're making it sound like they got their FT's by getting fouled on jumpshots???

b) See a above.

c) I agree...too many fouls overall...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You guys have been watching too much crybaby basketball for too long.

Tell me, who's been fined more for crying about officiating? THe Spurs franchise, or the Mavs?

Cuban's been fined enough to pay a quarter of Finley's yearly salary. If he'd ever shut up, maybe he wouldn't have to cut him

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

spurs fans now have no right to whine about the following people

Mark Cuban
George Karl
Kobe Bryant
Ray Allen

these people have been accused of whining too much about refs and bad calls but now alot of Spurs fans have officially reached the same level of complaining..........

its nearly 24hrs after the game and there is still carrying on.

as Mavs fans would say................ 2-1 is all that matters to them now. Im sure the Spurs have won games because of poor reffing and then the fans probably got upset coz the other teams fans complained about the refs.........

now your doing the same over and over and over again.

[picnroll]

Apparently the Spurs players are crybabies too. Word is they were fumoing about the reffing after the game.
When you get totally jobbed it's pretty normal to be pissed. It's one think to miss a call or two in crunch time. But to have a cluster of blown calls 5 to 1 going against your team would piss most except the political correct azi tough "oh I just suck it up"s. That last five minutes was certainly one of the most one sided screw jobs in a playoffs in a while.

[ponky]

It's good that everyone is so obsessed with the officiating, especially Duncan and his sorry post-game comments. Hopefully the Spurs players will just chalk it up to bad officiating and forget about making adjustments to their own gameplay.

[ponky]

spurs fans now have no right to whine about the following people

Mark Cuban
George Karl
Kobe Bryant
Ray Allen

these people have been accused of whining too much about refs and bad calls but now alot of Spurs fans have officially reached the same level of complaining..........

its nearly 24hrs after the game and there is still carrying on.

as Mavs fans would say................ 2-1 is all that matters to them now. Im sure the Spurs have won games because of poor reffing and then the fans probably got upset coz the other teams fans complained about the refs.........

now your doing the same over and over and over again.

You're exactly right. Wait, wait, let me guess what the Spurs fan retort will be to your post...."BUT YOU'RE A NUGGETS FAN, HAHAHAHAHA!!! "

[texas84]

In general, in the playoffs, a good sign that a game was badly officiated is if (a) a perimeter jumpshooting team shoots 50 fts (b) if the team that leads the league in points in the paint shoots 20 fewer fts than a perimeter jumpshooting team (c) there are 80 fts shot in a game.

In general, it's a pretty good sign that someone doesn't watch the game or can't tell what type of ball a team plays if a) they believe the Mavs are a perimeter jumpshooting team, and b) thinks they got 50 free throws by getting fouled on jumpshots.

Come on man, you're joking, right??